chesapeake wrote: Henry P should also know that when I have asked the telephone reps to ask for extra packing, those requests have gone entirely ignored.

Probably not ignored by the phone sales associates who have an option to include a message to the individual selecting the item from the warehouse shelf or to the individual packing the shipping box. The sales staff is in Manhattan and most of our merchandise is shipped from our Brooklyn warehouse so a message is attached electronically to the transaction.

jhom wrote: I received a Gitzo 3541LS from B&H yesterday. Instead of being underpackaged, it was filled with airbags surrounding the Gitzo box. It was filled so that the outer box bulged outwards. The airbags caused the Gitzo box to be pushed in on the sides of the box and the top lid opend and deformed.

Changes in air pressure, altitude and temperature while the package is in transit will do this and it's one of the drawbacks to air bags and bubble wrap. There is no perfect packing materiel and no perfect packing method.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

+1 for B&H poor packaging job.

I have stopped all my business with B&H due to its poor & careless packaging. My 17-55 IS came in a fairly small shipping box, the canon box was placed in one corner of the shipping box, the rest of the empty space in the shipping box was filled with one air packet. My 100 2.8 Macro was packed in the same way! I remembered some one posted a photo of the B&H shipping box & packaging on dpreview a while ago.

I have never had a problem with B&H shipping.

I just bought a 26" monitor here on B&S, now what fedex does with that has me a bit worried. But I think B&H has always been on the better side. Amazon, on the other hand... They pack a nearly indestructible CF card like its the Mona Lisa and then on another order throw an art book in the box with one air bag and the thing is just bouncing around in the box, 3 corners of the book smashed in.

Allens is great I think the way they package an item it could be thrown off a roof and not be damaged. They ship in an over sided box with tons of peanuts another great place is Canoga they offer the same well packaged item. I have been disappointed in B&H many times for their lack of concern for packaging

princeeric2 wrote: My 17-55 IS came in a fairly small shipping box, the canon box was placed in one corner of the shipping box, the rest of the empty space in the shipping box was filled with one air packet. My 100 2.8 Macro was packed in the same way!

Packing appearance aside, was either in any way harmed by this, or did they work fine out of the box and continue to do so now?

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

henryp wrote:
Packing appearance aside, was either in any way harmed by this, or did they work fine out of the box and continue to do so now?

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

It's not just about if the item is damaged or not Henry. As a customer, when I open the box and see what I perceived as inadequate protection, I will start to wonder if the seller value my business. Depending on how bad it is, I might even decide to take my business somewhere else.

As a big company, maybe B&H can shrug off a few customers going to the competition but word of mouth will spread quickly, specially on the net. Once the stigma is attached, well...

"... but word of mouth will spread quickly, specially on the net."

and one has to ask the question, is B&H choosing to solve this problem by improving their packaging practices, as well as their communication between sales and shipping departments; because it seems as though they're trying to change our opinion on the matter through forum representatives and marketing. i'd rather they stick to the former, not the latter.

I used to be paying friendly peer type visits to all kinds of manufacturing and architect-engineering companies in the past. One interesting pattern emerged out of those visits. It was usually the best performing companies that would ask: " Please tell us how is that we can do our business better."

It was usually the struggling or mediocre performers that would either know it all and/or any input was viewed as a disturbance or even attack on their good old ways of doing business.

abam wrote:
and one has to ask the question, is B&H choosing to solve this problem by improving their packaging practices, as well as their communication between sales and shipping departments; because it seems as though they're trying to change our opinion on the matter through forum representatives and marketing. i'd rather they stick to the former, not the latter.

I'm sorry you've developed this misconception. One primary reason we're here is to glean feedback like this. In an earlier post in this thread I reported that the entire thread would be passed on to the managers of our fulfillment, warehouse and shipping departments. It has, and I've included specific B&H transaction data when I could identify it. What I'm doing here is providing information both ways -- from customers to management and from B&H to customers.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

This is another fav youtube UPS vid of mine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAq_KnDIPc

henryp wrote:
abam wrote:
and one has to ask the question, is B&H choosing to solve this problem by improving their packaging practices, as well as their communication between sales and shipping departments; because it seems as though they're trying to change our opinion on the matter through forum representatives and marketing. i'd rather they stick to the former, not the latter.

I'm sorry you've developed this misconception. One primary reason we're here is to glean feedback like this. In an earlier post in this thread I reported that the entire thread would be passed on to the managers of our fulfillment, warehouse and shipping departments. It has, and I've included specific B&H transaction data when I could identify it. What I;m doing here is providing information both ways -- from customers to management and from B&H to customers.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video


Thank you Henry, one can hardly ask for more. The bottom line is that I have never met anyone unable to work out a camera or lens problem with B&H. I really do feel that when ordering an expensive piece of gear (camera or lens) it is worthwhile to spend a few extra bucks and shorten the time in transit. I think that it is this extra time kicking around UPS that causes most shipping damage and I can't understand spending 2 to 8 thousand dollars on something and then have it kick around for even one extra day. Sorry for the rant/

No body wants to recieve poorly packaged shipments, but to call the people who work in the B+H shipping department "crack heads" is way over the top!

jim allison wrote:
No body wants to recieve poorly packaged shipments, but to call the people who work in the B+H shipping department "crack heads" is way over the top!
Come on....ezzup....it is a term to discribe some one that doesn`t care about their job, them selves or you. I`m not saying they smoke crack......I`m saying they don`t care about their work and are creating problems for us and B&H.

It seems that there a a lot of complaints about the packaging and lack of padding, but all the stuff seems to work allright except for the guy whose paper had a crushed corner but he didn't complain??
If the item works, then it works and the manufacturers package design is more than adequate.

If the packing doesn't meet your standards, the best way to avoid it is to bite the bullet and go to your local store (unless it is already out of business because everyone shopped online) and buy it there.

Peter Le wrote:
jim allison wrote:
No body wants to recieve poorly packaged shipments, but to call the people who work in the B+H shipping department "crack heads" is way over the top!
Come on....ezzup....it is a term to discribe some one that doesn`t care about their job, them selves or you. I`m not saying they smoke crack......I`m saying they don`t care about their work and are creating problems for us and B&H.

I disagree. It's denigrating and dehumanizing. Call them careless or sloppy or ill-supervised or bad at their job if you feel it's appropriate. I take umbrage though at comments which malign their character (particularly when you group the lot under one broad brushstroke).

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

henryp wrote:
Peter Le wrote:
jim allison wrote:
No body wants to recieve poorly packaged shipments, but to call the people who work in the B+H shipping department "crack heads" is way over the top!
Come on....ezzup....it is a term to discribe some one that doesn`t care about their job, them selves or you. I`m not saying they smoke crack......I`m saying they don`t care about their work and are creating problems for us and B&H.

I disagree. It's denigrating and dehumanizing. Call them careless or sloppy or ill-supervised or bad at their job if you feel it's appropriate. I take umbrage though at comments which malign their character (particularly when you group the lot under one broad brushstroke).

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
I`m not grouping the lot.......I`m speaking of the ones that packed my paper and the packages others here are talking about. I`m sure some of your shippers are excellent.......they are not who we are talking about. A few bad apples can make the whole bunch seem bad. But Henry I do apologize for the bad chouse of words.

Well this thread is certainly beat to death!

Peter Le wrote: I`m not grouping the lot.......I`m speaking of the ones that packed my paper and the packages others here are talking about. I`m sure some of your shippers are excellent.......they are not who we are talking about. A few bad apples can make the whole bunch seem bad. But Henry I do apologize for the bad chouse of words.

Calling one guy a "bad apple," is not what you did.
This is what you did: Do they realize what the crackheads in shipping are doing to their rep.

Indefensible.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

henryp wrote:
Peter Le wrote: I`m not grouping the lot.......I`m speaking of the ones that packed my paper and the packages others here are talking about. I`m sure some of your shippers are excellent.......they are not who we are talking about. A few bad apples can make the whole bunch seem bad. But Henry I do apologize for the bad chouse of words.

Calling one guy a "bad apple," is not what you did.
This is what you did: Do they realize what the crackheads in shipping are doing to their rep.

Indefensible.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

I guess you are right Henry.........but you seem much more concerned about my poor chouse of words then you do about what goes on in your shipping department. I have spent many thousands of dollars at B&H over the years and have referred many more people to your store. I think it is time to look into some of the places I here about that beat your prices and have much better packing and shipping. I like to stick with one store I can trust but I think it is time to move on. Like you said you ship thousands of orders a day.....maybe you are just getting to big.

When I ship anything, I put it thru the shake rattle and roll ringer...if I can't hear anything, or feel any shifting, it's good to go...and that goes for everything I send whether a steel shafted titanium head golfclub, to a straw fedora, to a leather recliner...

Peter Le wrote:
you seem much more concerned about my poor chouse of words then you do about what goes on in your shipping department.
This is simply wrong and unfair. My concern about one does nothing to compromise or dilute my concern about the other.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

I have to say, I'm surprised by the volume of complaints. I've been counting on B&H more and more, particularly for printing supplies, and have yet to be disappointed with packing. Actually, for overall accuracy and care, I'd put them ahead of any of the usual suspects.

freaklikeme wrote:
I have to say, I'm surprised by the volume of complaints.

Which are not even remotely equal to the incidence of actual damage reported. Much ado about nada IMO.

rprouty wrote:
I've done business with Allens for the last 3or 4 years and couldn't be happier. Allens usually beats B&H prices too.

Rod

I just checked their site. I don't see any products listed - just address and directions.

Considering the large volume of internet business and shipping that B&H conducts, I'm impressed at how few compaints are posted here. I wish all of my internet purchases and transactions were as smooth as those I have had with B&H. As somebody has already said in an earlier post,

"Which are not even remotely equal to the incidence of actual damage reported. Much ado about nada IMO."

that does just about sum it up nicely.

Happy 4th All.