I finally had a perfect storm opportunity to test the units in exactly the sort of job for which I purchased them. A concert with totally crap lighting, where flash wasn't going to be distracting or annoying anyone.

It was incredible! They're going to change everything.

This is what stage lighting I would've had to work with. It's *okay* on this one musician, but the rest of the stage and the other 2 musicians weren't in the spotlight. The exposure's 1/250 @ f/2 ISO3200.



But, with a 430EXII doing some bounce and rimlight double-duty from the rear stage-left and a 580EX doing bounce fill front stage-right I transformed the scene into this



with an ST-E2 on top of the Mini i could control the ratios to best suit each one of the player's position on stage.











here's the whole stage and the lighting setup - taken from 60 feet back

Wow! What an incredible difference particularly in color and noise. I love what you've done and thank you for sharing.

Were you using just straight ETTL or ratio's in addition? Kudos to the band for allowing you to use your lights. I'll bet the music was great also.

Cheers.

Oops! Re-read your post and see you did adjust ratios. Great work.

Here's the mini and flex on the job - outdoors!



a good ole ezybox w/ 580EX and the 430EXII on rimlight duty.

Wow, what beautiful work. Great job!

thank you much!

Looking at your entire stage shot, there is no way I could get my 580s to fire with them mounted directly on the Flex TT5 from that distance! I've mentioned my disgust with these units in previous posts and my repeated problems using them where the shot counts. I would say that I guess I have some bad units, but from all the comments I have read, you should count yourself lucky if they are working for you. I would be apprehensive about using them when you really have to get the shot.

Hope they keep working.

Ron

I hear ya Ron. I know there are plenty of problems, and plenty of people having them. I don't know if it's pure luck or what, but I used them again tonight with more pleasurable results.

this time in a more of an off-camera direct fill situation.

I was a little more experimental with the technique, so it's more of an exploration . . .

From what I have read. The problem is a noise issue. namely RF noise from the flash themselves. it depends on the model and when the flash was made as to how much noise it may have. one easy solution for the flash end was to relocate the receiver using a ttl cable so that the flash doesn't interfere with the reception. I have seen the receiver mounted on a flex arm and connected to the flash mounted on the flash bracket using a ttl flash cable like if you were mounting the flash on a bracket. That seems to work best.

Also, they, Power Wizard, are working on a cover for the flash that will shield the receiver from the noise. Check out there website.

Michael

I have tried all the work around you mentioned above, and it helped some but still had numerous problems with triggering with the Flex 5 only 10 to 15 ft from the camera. On one shoot I was shooting with an 85L and only framing head and shoulders, so I was very close, and the unit would only fire at full power every time. I reset everything and no matter what I did it wouldn't fire correctly. The girl's mother just looked at me like I was an idiot. That was the last straw and I put them in the bag and haven' t pulled them out since.

I really wanted them to work and have had nothing but good experiences with my plus-IIs. I have no doubt that PW saw Radio Popper eating into their market and sent the product out the door half baked to stop the erosion. There is no way they didn't know how poorly they performed on Canon speedlites.

Again, I'm glad they are working for some, but I feel used by the company and now have $500 paper weights. I'm done ranting about this. I promise.

Ron

Ron Daniel wrote:
Michael

..... On one shoot I was shooting with an 85L and only framing head and shoulders, so I was very close, and the unit would only fire at full power every time. I reset everything and no matter what I did it wouldn't fire correctly. The girl's mother just looked at me like I was an idiot. That was the last straw and I put them in the bag and haven' t pulled them out since.

.....
Ron

While there are definately issues with the new PW's, I also have to question whether some of the issues aren't directly related to the EX580's - especially the full power flashes. You read about this occuring without any trigger as well - sure makes it doubly hard to determine what may be at fault.

Beauport,

I have no doubt that the radio frequency noise produced by the canon flashes are causing the communication problems, but PW sold and marketed the product as working with canon speedlites at hundreds of feet distance, which is not the case. My 580II is the worse about triggering with the 580 ver 1only slightly better. My 430ver1 is the best but it is still very unreliable. I guess that is mainly my point, they work sometimes but they are too unreliable to use when I am getting paid to get the shot.

I saw the shield on their website they are designing to solve the problem with the RF noise. Looks kind of big and bulky but it will probably work. I can't see myself spending more money to solve a problem that they should have known about in the first place. If they are going to give me one then I would be willing to give it a try, but I don't think they are planning to do that.

Later,

Ron

Ron Daniel wrote:
Michael

I have tried all the work around you mentioned above, and it helped some but still had numerous problems with triggering with the Flex 5 only 10 to 15 ft from the camera. On one shoot I was shooting with an 85L and only framing head and shoulders, so I was very close, and the unit would only fire at full power every time. I reset everything and no matter what I did it wouldn't fire correctly. The girl's mother just looked at me like I was an idiot. That was the last straw and I put them in the bag and haven' t pulled them out since.

I really wanted them to work and have had nothing but good experiences with my plus-IIs. I have no doubt that PW saw Radio Popper eating into their market and sent the product out the door half baked to stop the erosion. There is no way they didn't know how poorly they performed on Canon speedlites.

Again, I'm glad they are working for some, but I feel used by the company and now have $500 paper weights. I'm done ranting about this. I promise.

Ron

Something really seems extra wrong with your situation. First clue is that your 430EX version 1 is the best. PW's always said it's the absolute noisiest.

There's no reason why the adjustments shouldn't extend your range.

a simple setup like this

K_Strecker,

That's funny that I have almost the identical setup as your first picture with the same softbox and 580ver1 flash, extension cord with magnet, except that I am using a Magic Arm to get the Flex 5 up and away. Maybe I do have something wrong with my pocket wizards. I had to send the TT1 back after a few weeks as it would just randomly fire when I powered it up. The new one didn't exhibit that behavior but I could never get the range you are showing, even with the extension cord and magic arm. And as I said before, it just started firing full power with me on a previous shoot. I'll talk to the MAC group and see what they say.

Thanks for showing me how they can perform if working correctly.

Ron

Did I mention I got my Travelite 750 to sync at 1/8000 last night?

That's with a Mini on camera and a Flex receiving.

With a standard pocket wizard receiving I max out at 1/2500, but still! pretty damn impressive. It's going to be highly useful once my Tronix Explorer get's back from repair.

Sorry about the messy office


like I said . . 1/8000!!!!!!! at f/8 ISO 100.

TT5’s SUCCESS STORY

I was one of the first on my block to purchase the new TT5 Pocket Wizard’s a few months ago. Unfortunately I found myself returning them within a week due to very inconsistent results. I now know these problems were a combination of firmware issues and improper set ups with my 580EX units.

After taking various meter readings (in the real world) I found the 430EXII to be consistently only 4/10 (four-tenths) of an f-stop less output than my 580EX. This combined with the fact that they have no noise interference issues and a quick 3-second recycle time (silently too) sold me on them. I tested the range and got 80 feet which is all I ever need. I did not test beyond that as it becomes impossible to communicate with my subject or assistant.

So I sold most of my 580EX units and replaced them with the newer 430EXII units. I now have four TT5 units, three Canon 430EXII-(ver.2) and one Canon 580EX-(Ver.1). My camera body is a 5Dmk2 (one of the toughest nuts for PW to crack).

I am now getting very dependable results using just my 430EXII units. My 580EX is used solo on camera only when I need a bit more power, and with no TT5’s involved.

With the added benefit of the TT5’s I gain one full stop of power when in Hyper-Sync. So I can now seamlessly step up my shutter speed to 1/8000 without touching the flash and with no loss of power.

HS Sync Boost -

Now I simply slide a flash on the unit with the antenna facing 180 degrees away from the flash head then attach it directly to a stand or give it to someone to hold. It does its job, every time and there are no issues with having to separate it with a cord, ferrite chokes, extra brackets or contorting it in some strange way like the 580’s.

Although there is the appeal of getting a newer 580EXII so I can set all my flash units manually from the camera position.

I did purchased a set of the new Radio-Popper’s PX and found them to be good and dependable. I just did not like constantly dealing with the added bulk of the flash units and bumping the transmitting antenna on top of the flash, not to mention that I had to have a unit on top of flash.

After doing the math my current setup would have cost me $320.00 to $360.00 more if I went with the RP setup. That’s because of the higher RP’s per unit costs plus the need for another 430EXii or an ST-E2 to sit on top of the camera. For me RP added more (fragile) stuff to pack in my bag and dealing with more on top of the camera. Not something I wanted.

If you are interested I have all my TT5 settings in PDF files for my 5dMk2, just send me your email (not PM) and I’ll be glad to share them with you.

I have the mini tt1 and the flex tt5. with my 580ex2 they were useless crap. I got rid of the 580 and got a pair of 430ex2s. now it really is as easy and reliable as the adds would lead you to belive. I have been photographing at church for vacation bible school this week and it has been a no brainer. i have to work quick and move from classroom to class room so i set the flash on the tt5 on the foot stand then bounce the flash of the cealing. i can walk around the room with toatal freedom.

i have several flex with 580ex and 550ex. unfortunately they are very inconsistant, and i can really understand why so many people are complaining. there's not really a big difference between the 550ex and 580ex, so I assume, that not only the noise ist causing problems, but also the units themself. together with my 5dII at least, they are hopeless. also tried with st-2 ... unfortunately erratic and unreliable.
tried some setup with canon-ir only....worked better. tried same setup with cheap chinese triggers from a friend...worked much more reliable.
i spent 800+ for a non working system - very frustrated.
I know there are people that have no problems, like kurt, but they are rare. moste people seem to have very dissappointing and frustrating experiences.
that's why i wonder, that the flex's are still on sale. i cant imagine that pw likes their reputation damaged with such a bad product-line

am I really that rare? It took 4 weeks after ordering my Flexes for them to get in-stock. For the first month or more B&H would sell out immediately on receiving a shipment. There's literally no way to know how many people total are using them and how many of those are happy/angry.

It's easy to think there are mobs of angry pocket wizard users out there. But all across the internet I've seen maybe 25 total (different) people complain. I've seen less threads by happy users but there are plenty of images on flickr tagged with the new units who keep using them and uploading new work.

Put yourself in Pocket Wizard's shoes. Would you *really* keep sending out of focus images to clients if some (or lots!) of them were complaining? Would you? I doubt it. So why would Pocket Wizard shoot themselves in the foot? They're a small company, small enough to call you back personally if you ask them a question they're not sure about or report some behavior they've not experienced. You call new york and talk to tech and it's like 1 of 2 different guys that grabs the phone. They have a personal pressece on flickr. Even david at strobist has endorsed the line, and commented on the noise issue as unfortunate but he goes into detail as to why it happened and reinforced their commitment to continue to improve the system.

There was a guy yesterday who was having problems and complaining and could get these things to work. He'd had them for almost 2 weeks and had the RMA to return them . . . then he had a little breakthrough and realized that Tx means transmit and Rx means receiver. He didn't have those two channels set to talk to each other and had been blaming the system for the problem this whole time, reinforced by the other cranky and anonymous internet users.

So again, how do we know how rare the success stories are? My local store (the one I waited 4 weeks to buy from) has had zero returns of the units and still sells out of them quickly. They're a mom and pop shop, and not just pulling my leg to seem authoritative or anything.

this might be helpful

give it a shot

Mine are configured correctly, they just don't work reliably. You should send that to PW it use on there web site as their manual is terrible.

Ron

Ron Daniel wrote:
Mine are configured correctly, they just don't work reliably. You should send that to PW it use on there web site as their manual is terrible.

Ron

their manual is basic but that help button is where the real depth is. I wish more equipment manufacturers would go paperless, but I'm probably the minority in that respect.

I would have to say that I've gone from an initial unhappiness with the PW controlTL units to a mostly happy and even approaching delighted feeling. The rf interference was a real downer until I bought a superclamp and flexible extension arm to get the flex away from my 580 mkI. I already had an ETTL extension cable. The improvement in range was astounding. I lost count as I paced off the distance when testing with a mini on my 40D. Even with the 580 directly on the flex the range was consistently fine for any studio type work. With a 580 mkII on the camera with my mini the ETTL with ratios etc. works great.

The generic hypersync speed with my 40D is 1/250 sec. With the mini or flex on camera I show a very slight shutter curtain shadow at 1/400th sec. A bit of cropping takes care of that. Even 1/500 sec is sometimes usable as long as I compose the shot while keeping the curtain shadow in mind. When the mini or flex kick into hi-speed sync I dial-up +1 to +2 of FEC which takes care of the lower flash intensity unless I'm trying to work at too great a distance flash to subject.

I'm still a bit unhappy with the fact that I cannot trigger the flex with one of my PW plus II's or the PW cartridge in my Sekonic light meter unless I re-configure the flex to
fire with a standard channel instead of the ControlTL channel. Not a big deal as long as I remember to change the setting when needed.

Now that I've got all these variables implanted in my brain all I need now is a couple of shoots to confirm all this. I'm confident that the mini and flex will perform well and keep my happy.

Cheers!

@k_strecker: thanks for the settings;
is channel 20 the one that works for you best?

the manuals are ok, but I agree with ron that examples like the one you provided are really missing and would be helpful.

I have really not met another person (besides you ) that is really completely happy with the flex's

Yep, it's odd, since I had been told that the higher channels are further away from the RF noise. So I set it to 20 on day 1.

Then it was pointed out that the channel table in the help file lists channel 14 as actually being the highest frequency. So I tried it.

It cut my range in half. CH20 has been the best performer by a long shot. It's the difference between getting 30 feet with 580EX on flex, and 60+

From yesterday's test shoot. Some experimenting using 580EX inside an ezybox as off-camera fill

I'm also using channel 20 with great results.