http://www.germancarblog.com/2009/04/audi-forum-tokyo-white-leica-m8-special.html

Don't know why Leica is (has been) doing this kind of limited editions. It's regrettable. To me, this kind of limited edition just tarnishes Leica's reputation.

Can you imagine it with a big, red filter on the front? Not something Cartier-Bresson would have ever used.

Indeed. It just underlines the role of the Leica as a fashion accessory.

It pretty sad that the only way Leica can sell cameras is to paint them different colors. Otherwise who would be buying an exceptionally overpriced camera that fails to embody the latest generation of technology? Rather than update their camera, consistent with apparently industry technology and product cycles, they just paint them another color. Sad. I really would have liked to see Leica produce a real update to the M8, and stay current.

Personally, I don't get it but don't forget this is not a camera for a photographer. Leica has a large number of collectors so they will sell this camera, it's just not for taking photos.

It's a whacky way to make money but for a company struggling such as Leica is financially then I do nothing but applaud it. Having used the M8 for two years I would hate to see them go under. The camera and lenses are an absolute delight. If a few well heeled collectors keep the company going I'm all for it.

havent they always done this? I have a feeling I have seen SEs of all kinds of Leicas through the times... Itīs a way to make sure the Leicas are thought of as an exclusive thing.

I think it's silly but if it makes money for the company I don't see a big problem.

telyt wrote:
I think it's silly but if it makes money for the company I don't see a big problem.


In a micro sense, no, not a problem. But in looking at the bigger picture, we need to examine what it implies for the company as a whole, what is means about it products, it's capabilities, and its source of demand for its products. It just leads one to take the company less seriously as technology company and a producer of state-of-the-art tools. After all the effort, they can't seem to keep it going and compete, and have just accepted their position in the market as a fashion accessory and status symbol. I hope that I am wrong.

Well... I think you are wrong. They are currently focusing on the S2, and so there is no time to update the M8 to an M9. The M8 is now a couple of years old (I bought mine in Nov. 2006), and so naturally the sales are not as high as they have been. Leica has always made special editions of their cameras, partly on request (LHSA, various Sheikhs, kings and queens, ...), and partly just their own tradition. The safari edition, for example, has a long history. The technology, and their state-of-the-art is unaffected by the colour. They earn a little extra money this way, and so it is a valid approach.

Lotusm50 wrote:
telyt wrote:
I think it's silly but if it makes money for the company I don't see a big problem.


In a micro sense, no, not a problem. But in looking at the bigger picture, we need to examine what it implies for the company as a whole, what is means about it products, it's capabilities, and its source of demand for its products. It just leads one to take the company less seriously as technology company and a producer of state-of-the-art tools. After all the effort, they can't seem to keep it going and compete, and have just accepted their position in the market as a fashion accessory and status symbol. I hope that I am wrong.


Is this guilt by association? Leica makes/has made/will make many products that don't resemble fashion accessories. I doubt my DMR would be mistaken for one.

Lotusm50 wrote:
telyt wrote:
I think it's silly but if it makes money for the company I don't see a big problem.


In a micro sense, no, not a problem. But in looking at the bigger picture, we need to examine what it implies for the company as a whole, what is means about it products, it's capabilities, and its source of demand for its products. It just leads one to take the company less seriously as technology company and a producer of state-of-the-art tools. After all the effort, they can't seem to keep it going and compete, and have just accepted their position in the market as a fashion accessory and status symbol. I hope that I am wrong.



They make rangefinders, so the argument could be they are not a technology company. My M8 has no autofocus, should I send it back? Apologies for being so facetious. The image quality that is the product of their sensors and lenses is second to none in my view in this market space.

Sure they produce these trinkets but does the Canon Elph devalue the 1ds Mk 3?

I knew this would bring out a few of the Leica apologists ;-)

Technology doesn't not necessarily refer to focusing technology. It is the digital imaging technology that is critical, and at their price point they are clearly falling further behind and not seemingly doing anything about it -- except, perhaps, to try to prop up flagging sales with new paint colors. I think to suggest that Leica's M8's IQ is "second to none" almost laughable at this point, and it is clearly a perspective that is not widely shared at all (most defenders now just say "it is all I need").

And while they make products that don't resemble fashion accessories, it seems that they are mostly used and bought as such. And just in case you haven't noticed, they are not making the DMR any more -- just white painted M8's. Leica may be attempting to step out in to a new market with the S2, but I'm not sure how much sense it make to ignore your bread-and-butter (core) product line (the M8) to do so. They are sacrificing M line sales to pursue a risky venture with the S2. In my view, this diversion of resources has a large opportunity cost.

I really want Leica to be more than they are. There is a lot of potential, but they sadly seem to be disappointing me (and many others).

Our local photoshop is having an Leica M8.2-day on May 2. Refreshments will be served. Sounds like a good outing to me. Who knows, maybe they'll have a draw....

In fairness LotusM I'm not sure I'm an apologist (mostly because I don't really know what one is).

My position is one that the company is doing what they can to increase sales. I have a 5D Mk2 that I thoroughly enjoy for its rather limited uses to me. I enjoy shooting landscapes but don't have as many opportunities to use it as I do the M8. You can't possibly argue the quality of the Leica lens line up and I have to say that the files out of the M8 are superior to the 5D in many respects despite there only being half as many pixels.

I'm not sure your justification for saying that the M8 is mostly bought as a fashion accessory. I've seen that argument posted many times in the forums with absolutely no evidence to support it other than "Eric Clapton spotted with M8". Whoop-de-doo. The only time my fashion accessory got spotted as an M8 was by a professional photographer. I've had plenty of people mistake it for a film camera though.

I'm merely supporting their need to sell cameras, any colour cameras. Frankly, given their dire financial situation, how can you criticize a company for finding a different way to sell its product?

Got to go Google "apologist" now.

Here's some other nauseating limited issues... (i kind of like the Sultan of Brunei one..)

What I see as sillier than the white (safari/gold/platinum/whatever) cameras is the reactions people have to them. If it's not your thing, ignore it.

I think it's cool that Leica, or any other company does eccentric limited edition products. For many people, collecting these things is fun. I always hankered after the gold Contax RTS just because it would be quite funny to turn up to work wielding such hideous bling. But what Leica should really do is a limited edition M8 with an up-to-date full-frame IR-filtered sensor, great high iso performance, professional ergonomics, and auto-focus. That would get my attention.

brainiac wrote:
But what Leica should really do is a limited edition M8 with an up-to-date full-frame IR-filtered sensor, great high iso performance, professional ergonomics, and auto-focus. That would get my attention.


Yes. That would get a lot of people's attention. They could even do without the auto-focus. Oh, and they can call it a "limited edition" (they seem to like that) as long as they don't limit supply of such a product, and actually produce enough of them at a sensible price to meet the pent-up demand for such a product.

I wouldn't mind if it was really limited, as long as I get two.

brainiac wrote:
But what Leica should really do is a limited edition M8 with an up-to-date full-frame IR-filtered sensor, great high iso performance, professional ergonomics, and auto-focus. That would get my attention.

Isn't that a digital Contax G2 ?

I am very curious why Leica does not bother with autofocus ? They are probably the only company that doesn't want to pursue AF on their lenses - I wonder if there is a reason behind it - after all, their optics are without a doubt supreme over anything else (the only competition in the 35mm format is Zeiss really).

Now if Leica can produce a full frame M8 with good ISO up to ISO1600 and keep it around 12-14MP at a reasonable price (say $3000 or less), I would seriously look into getting one...regardless of what silly color they make it in.

Leica have an autofocus quasi-medium-format system on the way, it's called the S2.

They also have a 35mm autofocus system following after that, called the R10.

The M system will lose a lot of appeal to traditionalists if it goes autofocus, but if they can do it and maintain well damped organic manual rangefinder focus then I wouldn't mind.

I think what leica rather ought to do is sucker people into buying by offering miniscule upgrades every 6 months or so..... basically like the other camera companies

kleinssz69 wrote:
I think what leica rather ought to do is sucker people into buying by offering miniscule upgrades every 6 months or so..... basically like the other camera companies

Looking at my 5Ds and the three year wait for the radically improved 5D2, this comment doesn't make much sense to me. Nikon have been equally radical in pushing the technological boundaries. If anyone's been dragging his feet when it comes to upgrading products it's...

brainiac wrote:
kleinssz69 wrote:
I think what leica rather ought to do is sucker people into buying by offering miniscule upgrades every 6 months or so..... basically like the other camera companies

Looking at my 5Ds and the three year wait for the radically improved 5D2, this comment doesn't make much sense to me.


Especially since you could have bought BOTH the 5D and the 5D MkII for the price of an M8.

pascal03 wrote:
brainiac wrote:
But what Leica should really do is a limited edition M8 with an up-to-date full-frame IR-filtered sensor, great high iso performance, professional ergonomics, and auto-focus. That would get my attention.

Isn't that a digital Contax G2 ?


You had to bring up old memories, didn't you.

I think I am going to cry.

;-)

kleinssz69 wrote:
I think what leica rather ought to do is sucker people into buying by offering miniscule upgrades every 6 months or so..... basically like the other camera companies

They're already doing that, except the upgrade is done to your existing camera and costs as much as a new camera from another brand. This way you can't sell your old camera once getting the upgrade. Genius.