milmoejoe wrote:
Just for grins, I gave the setup a quick test.

I backed out the torx screw and re-tightened to normal tension. With the Wh-200 attached, I am able to dislodge the plate from the base by prying the head upwards with my hands.

Granted, this is abnormal pressure and not in alignment with those "recommended uses" from gitzo, but I think it is pretty telling.

And, FYI-

-fail·ure, \ˈfâl-yər\,noun - omission of occurrence or performance ; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action




I'm also able to destroy every photo equipment I use with my hands. Lenses, tripods, heads,bodies. So what Is this normal use or anything that Gitzo recommend ?

Lars - You have to admit that there has been an up-tick in the number of reported Gitzo tripod plate separations with the newer tripods. A quick google search show at least 3 different events on separate web boards. I don't recall ever hearing about these separations in the past with any of the older tripods. milmoejoe indicates that he can wiggle his plate loose after it's been tightened down, and this shouldn't be possible. You indicate that your tripod is bombproof. I can't speak form personal experiences as I don;t have a newer tripods, but it could be that the fit between the plate and tripod is too loose in some cases, and if so, this speaks to Gitzo's quality control measures.
-Rich

I don't know if there has been an up-tick or not. This is the first time i have been reading about it. And there are Thousends of people in every country using Gitzo tripods. And you can't wiggle the plate loose with your fingers after tighten the screw. It's impossible if not the screw or plate is broken.

Lars, I didn't destroy anything? The pressure I applied was similar to what transporting the rig over your shoulder might present.

No need for this to be a combative argument. I'm fine knowing my limits with the gear I've got. Hopefully the message might serve as a warning for the rest of us who're not as omniscient as others

Why pay big money for such a bad tripod when you have been reading about it And why carry big lenses over your shoulder when you know about this? This is just the normal whining and bashing that becomes more and more common at FM

?

Your posts make little sense.

The gitzo rep's statement says: This "issue" has come up more in the past 3 months than in my previous 5 years working with Gitzo.

I've owned the tripod for just over 3 months. I obviously wouldn't have made the "upgrade" from the 1325, had I any inclination.

Just a hunch, but I think its a bit more of a concern than purple fringing on the trash cans and battery door squeaks. After all, places like FM wouldn't be complete without all the skeptics, fanboys, devils advocates, etc.

Carmen Miranda wrote:
milmoejoe wrote:


It's not that anybody is laughing, it's more like utter astonishment at people who insist that products be engineered to protect them from their own stupidity or that someone else is liable for their own risk taking.

Not in a hundred million years would the systematic plate fail if the your tripod was used in the manner in which it was designed. Even Canon or Nikon would not approve of transporting their long glass in the manner. The fact that you can get away with it for the most part is a testament to the strength of the system. The fact that it may fail from time to time should come as no surprise to all but the most foolhardy and irresponsible.

If some woman got $10 mill for spilling her $1 worth of McD's coffee, maybe you should get $10 trillion for dropping $10K worth of glass?

Now that the rally cry has been "acknowleged" by management, I'm sure it won't be too long before new Gitzo's will be sporting big yellow warning labels saying, "Do not carry tripod over the shoulder with camera attached." LIke that will make any difference.

No joe, you won't hear me laughing, but you won't get my sympathy either.

Good luck.

+1 and agree 100%

This thread is rediculous......... At least those who are saying that the solution is NOT to carry the tripod and lens on your shoulder. Breaking it down, and setting it up again costs valuable time, time in which a shot would vanish.

Gitzo knows that photographers on the move, be it sports, wildlife, or BiF have hauled lenses that way for t least 3 decades.

The customer is king. Knowing how the customer uses the gear, and how the customer expects it to perform, Gitzo should test it that way, and design it that way. No questions asked. If that mean drop the loaded weight max to 15 pounds from the previous rating of 30 or more, so be it. If it means rethinking the design of the base plate and how it attaches to the tripod so be it. If it means recalling and retro fitting the tripods so be it. If it means a 5% raise in price to get it right, so be it.

No photographer who actually wants to work, and get the shot is going to remove the camera rig from the tripod to chase a bird, a center, or a running back only to have to remount it and miss the shot.

Gitzo needs to step up and meet the challenge of how their equipment is being used be real photographers in the real world, not in a 'perfect' test lab, where subjets are always stationary, the ground is always level, and photographers never have to transport their equipment and still be ready to capture the moment at way less than a moments' notice.

RikWriter wrote:
Carmen Miranda wrote:
milmoejoe wrote:
As you can imagine, this is a serious concern for nature and other photographers who carry their setup over their shoulder. There are a number of other discussion threads on other forums where photographers are experiencing complete losses of $10,000+ of equipment

Meanwhile, Gitzo refuses to acknowledge the issue.


Why should they?

You may want to carry a 400mm f4 by the stix, but I challenge you to name one tripod or head manufacturer that would encourage or condone such a risky and inappropriate use of their product.


Sorry, but that's bull. MOST nature photographers carry their long lenses that way.


+1

Carmen please enlighten us wildlife photogs on the proper way to carry a large lens on a tripod?

I carry my rig on long treks through the woods and to carry it any other way would negate opportunities for a quick setup for a shot. Every wildlife photog I have seen carries it this way unless they shoot HH.

I do take extra steps for protection by using a sling around my neck when carrying my rig over my shoulder but it is a precaution for my head possibly coming loose or the mounting bolt breaking or coming loose. I would have never imagined the tripod plate would or could come off. I find this kind of information very informative and helpful and a design flaw that should be remedied by Gitzo.

My head coming off or the mounting bolt coming loose is my responsibility to make sure it is tight before and during use but the tripod plate should not be able to come loose at one point if not tightened. There should be more than one securing point as a fail safe or a more reliable attachment method.

Jim

Good idea Jim!

Jim Victory wrote:

Carmen please enlighten us wildlife photogs on the proper way to carry a large lens on a tripod?


Conscientiously.

It's not like I don't carry a big lens on stix either. It's just that I don't expect Gitzo to assume responsibility for using their product other than for what it was designed.

Could Gitzo design a plate or crown specifically for this purpose? Sure, but you'd still have the same issues with 3/8" head bolt, ball head, QR plate or 1/4-20 mount screw. Even if RRS provided a underplate to secure the top plate, would they be willing to assume the risk and condone transporting a 400mm f4 on one of their heads in this manner?

This discussion is more a matter of risk assessment than it is about tripod design. If a tripod or head manufacturer addresses this issue directly and expressly improves performance in this area, they become implicitly liable. Again, I challenge anyone to name a manufacturer that would condone such a practice.
Do you seriously think that any tripod manufacturer does not want to satisfy the wildlife and sports photographer and be their "brand" of choice?
You don't think they don't already know how we use our sticks?

I have a number of Gitzo's, I really can't see any difference between the old and new as far as how the Systematic plate is attached. They have withstood the test and I can't think of a product on the market that would be better with a long lens. If I did, I'd own one. But as I walk or run with my lens attached, I know I'm taking my chances and putting undo strain in places that were not designed for that use.

The fact that many, if not most, wildlife and sports photographers use Gitzo stix in this way is more a tacit testament to Gitzo quality and performance than it is an outright endorsement of the practice. Maybe some think that because others do it without problems that they can too without any concern whatsoever. But most shooters realize this is a risk they take, not an assumption to be made.

Frankly, even if a tripod manufacture did everything possible to address this issue, it is unreasonable to expect them to express it outright and assume liability that is really not their's to begin with. Straps are for carrying, tripods and heads are for stabilizing.

Come on people, we're talking common sense here.

but is the top plate secured w/ a locking screw?
I think millmoejoe is saying that screw should be a locking screw (he's not talking about the ballhead screw that goes through the bottom of the plate)...

Presumably, what will happen here is that Scott Clark and friends will come up with a fix for the issue (5th post down), make it available, and then Gitzo itself will eventually follow suite with their own design.....so everybody's happy.

http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=131075&start=60

Having never used a Gitzo (i've always had cheapies) I just got mine - love it so far, but I too fell victim to this. I didn't lose anything thank god, but I was playing around with it right out of the box and failed to tighten the plate down, which came wide open from the factory. If I had put a rig onto it, and then turned the tripod sideways, just a bit, the whole thing would have come out and hit the floor.

It would be nice, if the Gitzos came with the plate tighten to begin with, and possibly a piece of paper warning that you should tighten the plate first.

However, that said, I would never carry my kit over my shoulders, especially bigger glass that would be even more prone to cause imbalance.

Gitzo is supposedly "the standard" for tripod manufacturers. If you don't use a Gitzo tripod with your super telephoto lens, what are the genuine alternatives? I am on the cusp of buying a Gitzo 5541LS to use with my Canon EF 600 F4L IS USM and Canon 1D bodies, but this string is giving me a lot of pause. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

Roman

Just learn to ignore all the posts with exclamation points (especially multiples) in the title, or all caps, as well as words such as scam, beware, etc., and you'll be fine.

The 5-series Gitzo is simply the best choice for the gear you mentioned, and as such, it has neither manufacturing, nor design defects. Checking the tightness of the various fasteners in tripods, brackets, and other gear is advised, and indicated by common sense.

PORSCHE917 wrote:
Gitzo is supposedly "the standard" for tripod manufacturers. If you don't use a Gitzo tripod with your super telephoto lens, what are the genuine alternatives? I am on the cusp of buying a Gitzo 5541LS to use with my Canon EF 600 F4L IS USM and Canon 1D bodies, but this string is giving me a lot of pause. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

Roman

I can't speak to the alternatives but the Series-5s are definitely awesome (I own a 5540LS, among others, because I thought at this point I'd have a 600; now I'm even thinking about larger if the finances work out; that remains to be seen.) The problem is pretty rare and Gitzo will presumably come up with a solution that hopefully will be "backward compatible" with existing models (or someone else will.) In the meantime there are any number of simple ways to avoid the problem. Tightening bolts, not carrying in this manner, using a chest/neck loop, etc. I wouldn't avoid buying just because of this.

PORSCHE917 wrote:
Gitzo is supposedly "the standard" for tripod manufacturers. If you don't use a Gitzo tripod with your super telephoto lens, what are the genuine alternatives? I am on the cusp of buying a Gitzo 5541LS to use with my Canon EF 600 F4L IS USM and Canon 1D bodies, but this string is giving me a lot of pause. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

Roman

It is "the standard" for tripods. You can always find a few people whine about Gitzo or any other good brand. But most of those have never even owned one
The 5541LS is the best you can get and you will be very happy with it. I use it together with the 500/4 and 800/5,6 and have never used or seen a better tripod

Dear Lars:

Thank you for your input. Relying on my own due diligence plus the comments in this thread, this morning I ordered my Gitzo 5541LS and related equipment (leg coatings, Gitzo padded tripod bag and Gitzo center column) from B&H. I am looking forward to the delivery of these items tomorrow and to using them for the first time on Saturday, weather permitting. Also, thank you to all of the other posters who commented on this subject.

Best regards,

Roman

FYI, looks like a solution will be available from both Naturescapes (scroll down to post by Greg Downing) and the previously mentioned individual at some point.

http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=154592

I just purchased a Gitzo 3540LS from another FM'r. I believe this is "last years" model-new one is 3541?? This is the first Gitzo I've ever owned so this is all new to me. Can someone tell me if this tripod would be one of the ones affected by this 'problem" ? Thanks

I have a Gitzo 1325 and always carry my 500L on a Wimberely head slung over my shoulder., but also have my arm or neck through the strap just in case. Never had it fail though.

I won't be buying anymore Gitzo products though, not based on their quality but their insane pricing. Maybe in France CF is created one atom at a time specially for Gitzo, but in most of the rest of the world it's a pretty cheap product not much dearer than fibreglass these days.

JFB318 wrote:
Thanks for sharing your concern Joe. Geez, why shoot the messenger that is trying to save you from losing an expensive lens. If you don't like what he has to say, go ahead and sling it over your shoulder

Basically, there are a few "Gitzo cannot do any wrong" fanatics here. Joe, you called a spade a spade...which we all should thank you for.

Carmen Miranda wrote:
milmoejoe wrote:
It's easy to sit back and laugh at folks who experience this misfortune. Unless you shoot with a heavyweight tripod with a long lens stowed over your shoulder, you likely won't comprehend the issue. I assure you the tables turn when it is you looking down at a pile of $10,000 in broken glass.

It's not that anybody is laughing, it's more like utter astonishment at people who insist that products be engineered to protect them from their own stupidity or that someone else is liable for their own risk taking.

Not in a hundred million years would the systematic plate fail if the your tripod was used in the manner in which it was designed. Even Canon or Nikon would not approve of transporting their long glass in the manner. The fact that you can get away with it for the most part is a testament to the strength of the system. The fact that it may fail from time to time should come as no surprise to all but the most foolhardy and irresponsible.

If some woman got $10 mill for spilling her $1 worth of McD's coffee, maybe you should get $10 trillion for dropping $10K worth of glass?

Now that the rally cry has been "acknowleged" by management, I'm sure it won't be too long before new Gitzo's will be sporting big yellow warning labels saying, "Do not carry tripod over the shoulder with camera attached." LIke that will make any difference.

No joe, you won't hear me laughing, but you won't get my sympathy either.

Good luck.

Carmen, can you enlighten us how you carry your 500mm lens and tripod so that you are ready at the drop of a hat to capture that moose as it emerges from the forest. Seems to me, most people I have seen and shot with carry the lens attached to the tripod over their shoulder.

Lars Johnsson wrote:
Why pay big money for such a bad tripod when you have been reading about it And why carry big lenses over your shoulder when you know about this? This is just the normal whining and bashing that becomes more and more common at FM

Lars, it is the argumentative crap that is spilled in these forums lately that is bringing FM down.