I know this has been discussed way to much but I am having trouble figuring out the information I need. I will try to be as specific as possible.

I will be ordering this weekend either the 1250, 2500 with bi-tube heads. But I just can not wrap my head around the flash duration discussion that has been going on.

Now if I were to purchase the 2500 pack and use the bi-tube it looks like the T1 (only number I care about as that is what stops the action) is at 1/600th of a second which is the same as the AB1600 I currently own. That is with both plugs plugged into the outlets.

Now if I were to set that to the 1/4th switch would my T1 now be 1/1250th at 625ws (same power as the B1600's)? Or what would that be at?

I know that by lowering power using the slider my T1 would actually get longer and not shorter, but that I need to use the switch that is located next to the plugs in order to quicken the T1 flash duration.

My question is the same with the 1250 pack. If used at the 1/4th switch that would be 312ws (same as a B800) and my T1 would than be 1/1800th? Or what would that be?

The only numbers I really care about are the T1 numbers. Would it be better to just get the single tube heads if I will be using these packs on 1/4th all the time or will using the bi-tube still be quicker on that power setting.

Or what if I had the bi-tube and only one plug plugged in and have it on 3/4ths setting (is that even possible) would my T1 be better?

Sorry for all these questions. I have to have these by Tuesday so I will be overnight them and I just want to make sure I know all of this information before I decide on a power pack.

Thanks

**Wanted to also ask when you use the extension cable how much longer does that make the flash durations? Or does that only affect the recycle time

I'm interested to hear the answer to this. You'll probably need Paul to reply, I don't think there are many Zeus users here.

I was never very impressed by the Zeus line, mainly due to lack of head outlets and overall construction/operation/ergonomics. Sorta like Profoto's monos, packs just really aren't what AB does best.

Yeah I have asked in about 3 forums so I am waiting to hear. Hopefully someone with knowledge will answer.

I need to know which way I am going to go by Monday morning as I need them for this week to shoot.

Quickest/easiest way would be to call them on Monday morning right before placing an order. Or PM Paul on here.

I called but I am not sure the person I was dealing with knew that much about them. I might just wait till monday morning and ask to talk to a tech person with serious knowledge of them

It does make quite a bit of difference for me so it is important to know. Since I will be using these for around 90% sports shooting

I'd pick up Speedos or Dynalites for that, personally.

Looking at the prices and their flash duration times they are not better than the Zeus line. The 1250 pack has a t1 of 1/900th which is pretty darn good! That is a lot of power with a very good t1. I mean heck most people just shoot bball at around 1/1000th at the most as that stops just about everything even hands.

I know that by lowering power using the slider my T1 would actually get longer and not shorter, but that I need to use the switch that is located next to the plugs in order to quicken the T1 flash duration.

That is incorrect. the flash duration for packs and heads gets shorter with lower power settings.

Monolights DO get longer with lower power settings. The 'exception" to this is the X series White Lightnings, which can literally cut out the use of 3/4 of their caps by using the 1/4 power limiter. But if you rather just lowered the settings with the slider, the time would get longer.

So, your best bet is to overpower the ambient by so much with your kit that you can actually lower the power settings on the packs. Also, I'm not sure what sports you're looking to shoot, but if it's basketball, rather than use 4 lights, consider using 6. That can give you enough power to perhaps lower all your lights a bit. I figure if you're willing to overnight these kits, the cost is probably not too prohibitive.

You may also want to consider renting, only because I cannot imagine the cost of overnighting heavy equipment won't come into the hundreds of dollars, and you can rent more lights (like 6 or 8), then use standard shipping for a normal set of 4 lights.

Obviously this is something that needs to be calculated to see if it makes financial sense.

Max

Max,

See that is what has me confused because the person the phone I talked to on Friday said that by using the slider control on the zeus box would make my flash durations longer, not shorter. So that is why I am going to wait to make sure.

Shipping is around 150 bucks I believe so it is not to bad.

I know when I was using my B1600's (600ws) I was at least 3 stops over ambient so I can only imagine what double the power will do for me. I would imagine at least another stop which from what I read is right in the area you really need to be.

Plus with the 1250 packs at full power I am getting a great t1 at 1/900th of a second.

If you look at other packs, you'll see that the flash duration gets shorter with lower power settings. Take a look at a Profoto D4
http://www.profoto.com/products/profoto/generators/d4/d4-2400#

and you may want to check other packs and heads, to see what their specs are.

However, all that being said, PCB may not have gone the conventional route. Honestly, the person you spoke to could be completely right if the pack is a different design, or completely wrong if they were thinking of mono's.

btw extension cables reduce power, but not sure about affecting duration.

If you can get Paul to respond, that would be the best bet.

Max

Max,

Not all packs are like that. The Elinchrom Ranger, for example, has its shortest flash duration at max power, just like Elinchrom monoblocs.

Yeah I will find out for sure. Paul responded to the post on his forum but did not actually answer my question lol Oh well either way I think that 1250 pack is in my sights.

Ok well I called and they confirmed by lowering the slider on the pack that the flash durations will get better.

I went ahead and ordered the 1250 pack. In the end I knew I could always upgrade if I ever needed to since they offer that for people.

Thanks to all that commented here.

rudi,

thanks for mentioning that. I believe the difference here is that the ranger is a battery based pack. I'd love to see the specs on a hensel porty or the profoto pro 8 airs, but I can't be sure that this is why the ranger is faster at max power.

max

I think you have come to an incorrect conclusion. Using the slider switch will not shorten flash duration on the zeus (or the WL), but reducing the power to 3/4 or1/4 on a single head will. A bitube will be quicker at full power than a single tube at full power, but you can't use a bi-tube at 1/4 power (you can use it at 1/4 power by using only one of it's cables plugged in like a single tube head.)
Quoting the zeus manual: "Note: Reductions of power via the slider results in somewhat longer flash durations ..."
It also says "flash head extension cable will result in a minor power loss and slight lengthening of flash durations."
Only the new Einstiens will have shorter duration with reductions of power but they aren't out yet of course.
the times that are listed are: bitube at full power on Z1250 is 1/900sec. for T1
Stuart
Here is a quote from Paul about this subject from his forum: (http://www.paulcbuff.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=898&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30)
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:15 pm
Posts: 3226
Using the power slider will increase flash duration as most monolights.

Using the ratio switch switches caps and will shorten durations. Using two heads will shorten the duration.

If you use only one head, set it on 3:1 ratio and use the B outlet for minimum. This gives you 1/4 the capacitors (and power) and much faster durations.

All of this applies to virtually all power packs, excluding very high end Broncolor packs that us IGBT control instead of voltage control.

Zeus pack and head has about the fasted durations per WS of anything on the market.

_________________
Luap C. Ffub

well wow I do not know what to say as the tech person I talked to on the phone at your own company said it did. That to say the least is disappointing that people, heck you're own tech people do not know the correct answer.

So what would be the flash duration than if I plugged in only one cord into the 3:1 power outlet side? What would be the flash duration if I plug it into the 1/4 power outlet side? (either or for the bi-tube since you can't plug them both in since one tube would get 3/4th power and the other would get 1/4th)

I need to know this stuff as it is important

That might have changed things for me ordering wise.

Can someone from that company please tell me the exact flash duration using just one outlet at the 3:1 side and 1/4 power side while just using one tube on the bi-tube light since that is what I have now.

Thanks

Update to the situation...

Ok well I called again this morning. The tech I talked to was very very nice and willing to sit there and listen to me moan and groan a little about what happened. He is also researching some of the questions I had about using different setup's for flash durations.

Let me make this clear for those of you that might think about purchasing this setup. When using the slider to adjust power your flash durations will get LONGER. Again they will get LONGER not shorter.

If you use the switch (full power, 3:1, 1/4th) your flash durations will get SHORTER.

If your like me and purchase the bi-tubes you can purchase a ZYXT converter which will take your A and B plugs and turn them into one socket. That way you can plug your bi-tube head into either the 3:1 or 1/4th area and get faster durations while still using BOTH tubes. So if you use that ZYXT and set the single socket into the 3:1 your going to get around 930 watts (or so) which divided by two tubes is around 450ws of power.

Which will mean a much faster flash duration than 1/900th which you get when using the full 1250 pack of power. I would assume since your seeing around 600ws in each tube on full power and getting 1/900th you will see around 1/1200 or higher when using the ZYXT at 3:1 ratio and getting 400 or so watts.

The person who I talked to said he would get me the numbers here today.

But when using the bi-tube, ZYXT tool and putting it on the 1/4th socket your going to get a t1 over 1/2100 of a second (Around 312ws total which is equal to a B800 strobe) which is extremely fast and double the speed of a B800 strobe at full power!

Anyways when I get the numbers from this very nice tech I will post them.

By the way I will also add that I tested this pack out at full power and like someone posted it sounds like a small 22 rifle going off! lol Not kidding either.

Ok some more information on this in case anyone every wants to know.

Using the 1250 pack and having that Y adaptor (enables both flash tubes to fire from a single socket) with the switch set to 3:1 your T1 will be 1/1250th of a second.

With it plugged into the 1/4th socket your T1 will be around 1/2180 (312ws or a B800 strobe).

Now using the 2500 pack your going to look at around half of whatever the 1250 is showing.

So at 1/4th power on the 2500 pack your looking at a T1 in the ballpark of 1/1000th of a second (612ws or equal to a B1600).

Again these numbers are using a bi-tube with a ZYXT connector.

I would assume on the 2500 pack at 3:1 your looking at around 1/800th for a T1.

msauk wrote:
By the way I will also add that I tested this pack out at full power and like someone posted it sounds like a small 22 rifle going off! lol Not kidding either.
Nothin' like a little rimfire to keep your models perky...

I should try to record it and post it lol It does catch you by surprise. I could only imagine what the 2500 pack sounds like at full power!

It's pretty scary, especially if it is right next to your head!

So here is the question,

Will you see much of a difference between 1/900th and 1/1250th stopping action wise?