We all post photos for C&C but I'm looking for some feedback on my rates. I'm trying to compete with the budget shooters as well as offer a higher end product. What say you??

Here's what's on my website:

My job is to make your day memorable with extraordinary photographic coverage. You can also customize any of my services to meet your requirements.

My rates begin at $900 and typically include:

* The bride preparing
* Wedding Ceremony
* Couples shots
* Formal shots
* Detail shots
* Printing rights to your images
* Digital editing and enhancing of ALL images
* Approximately 150 images
* An online proofing gallery of your images
* A CD of high resolution finished digital images
* Approximately 3 hours on the wedding day

* Additional coverage on separate dates for bridal/engagement sessions may be added at the rate of $125/hr. This also includes digital processing/enhancing of your images and a CD of full resolution pictures.

My most popular package is $1600 and includes:

* The bride & groom preparing
* Wedding Ceremony
* Couples shots
* Formal shots
* Detail shots
* Reception
* Printing rights to your images
* Digital editing and enhancing of ALL images
* Unlimited images
* An online proofing gallery of your images
* A DVD of high resolution finished digital images
* Approximately 7 hours on the wedding day
* $300 print or album credit or complimentary engagement or bridal session.

* A second photographer may be added for an additional $300

My feature package is $3100 which includes all the above plus:

* All day coverage
* Engagement session or bridal portait
* Additional photographer for the ceremony and reception
* 10 x10 20 page Zookbinders album
* 4x5 proofs of all the images


* Prints/albums/proofs may be added ala Carte. Since sizes, quantity and design vary for each client, prices are quoted on request.

* All images include some select duplicate images in Black & White and/or Sepia. In addition, along with digitally enhancing and editing of all images, I also retouch a select number of photographs to highlight the brides full potential and beauty.

* A minimum of 50% of the fee is payable when scheduling to secure the booking for a wedding. A contract must also be signed. I will be happy to send you a contract prior to booking a date.

* No charge for mileage except if the wedding/reception location falls outside 25 miles of North Raleigh.

* Destination weddings also available.

Thanks!

Good idea, but will it work? I tried that and they saw $3100 and my inquiries dried up. I dropped it to 2950 and the phone rang again -and they're not wanting that package. Purely perception. Weird but true.

I've had luck in the past offering practically nothing in a package. Price sells. I was hoping for after-sales but got zip. Tried a 10 side album with the hope/plan of upselling after. Nada. If they don't buy up front they won't buy after.

As to giving hi-res images my solution has been they get what's in the album - no extra work for me but extra (perceved) value for them. If they want all the images then it's as an 'archival disk' for $1 per, but they must take them all (around 500). Seems to satisfy them and no more 'OMG, $500 for teh images?'

So for 09 Im switching to X images in an album, not a page count deal. Way too often brides try to cram more images into a book - not any more, or they'll pay for the privelege at least.

So to summarize my thoughts - you can't be McDonalds and Chez Louis - the cheap ones will think you are too expensive and the higher end will not bother with a low end photog.
Giving them more does not mean they'll pay more.

Hmmm. Good thoughts. I changed my rates a month ago to one basic package for $1800 and got nothing. Zip, nadda. So I'm going back to offering a cheaper package along with the higher end stuff to see if inquires pick up again.

Jcolman-
It can difficult to critique rates because income and wedding values can vary greatly around the country. Additionally, my experience isn't a little limited as well, as I'm just starting myself, but I've noticed a few things. I'm assuming you copied your wording directly from your website.

1. I'd change, "My rates begin at $900 and typically include:" to get rid of the "typically" the wording is a little fuzzy and the couple could take that to mean that you don't deliver a consistent product.

2. I would re-evaluate the length's of time you have listed for both your $900 and $1600 packages. They don't seem to correspond with the length's of time needed for what you've listed, at least based on my experience with how weddings run in this part of the country. If things happen at a different pace in NC, then you're good.

3. I would specify a time for "all day coverage" in your $3100 package. Again, that's fuzzy wording and could lead to problems when a couple literally expects you to shoot all day... 24 hours.

4. I would totally eliminate, "In addition, along with digitally enhancing and editing of all images, I also retouch a select number of photographs to highlight the brides full potential and beauty." Lesson to be learned, All brides are beautiful, whether you retouch them or not. It is supposed to be one of her most beautiful days in her life. No Bride wants to read that you will retouch some of her photos to show her full potential. Either decide to retouch or don't, but don't say that.

Hope that helps and good luck.... it is definitely tough starting out.

Rich

I agree with what Chris said .. tighten up your price range and decide where you want to compete.

And i'd change 'shots' everwhere you have it to 'photo' or 'image' or 'picture' or something other than guns and liquor

thanks people. Good points all. Off to make some changes.

My experience has been similar to prof_fate's. My low package was $1100 and the high was $3100. Calls quit abruptly. Stripped the low package even more bare and offered it at $995, and the top package at $2995. Phone starts ringing again, but no one wants the top or bottom package. I have two packages in between and I'm averaging about $1800, which is above the average for my market.

Hey Jim,

I put some thoughts down here for you... you know me, I'm pretty direct so please take this in the spirit of critique.

One thing I immediately noticed is your pricing is a bit complicated. I had to really read thru it to understand what you meant. An effective price list will sell itself but also be relatively easy to understand.

I'd recommend loosing the actual parts of the wedding you "typically" cover. From a client's point of view, wouldn't you rather decide what you want covered? You want them to envision (and sell themselves) what you would be doing on the big day.

I'd also recommend you have it more linear.. packages, add-on items, albums, etc instead of adding notes to each package.

Drop the # of images you deliver. What happens if you come up short, or just meet expectations? Alot of this stuff can be discussed in your consultation - saying things like I typically get about 50 "keepers" per hour, maybe more depending on how much activity there is.

Take the retainer amount (50%) out of the price list. This is a contractual item. Same thing with mileage, no need for it to be in there.

You'll notice I'm picking on things with a certain theme. Your pricelist should never offer any barriers to them hiring you. Sell them on your work, get them on board with the pricing, then discuss any the particulars. Right now, you have too many areas for a client to say "no" to on the pricelist. Remove as many of those as possible and I think you'll see a difference in people's interest.

I agree with most the points above as well. You have a very large gap betwen 3 & 7 hours. Many weddings I shoot are 5-6 and you're lacking coverage in that range.

My packages start @ $2000 for a 4 hour shoot & burn. The next level up adds some time & a small album. Each level offers more time, more product and larger albums. Each step up should add something they REALLY want to encourage them into the next price range. Without that, your price list won;t sell itself and you're left to do all the hard work.

You can't be everything to everyone. Pick your battlefield - high end, middle, or low end. Now, you can vary between any two adjacent realms in this structure, but don't span across all three.

Also, to make the package seem "larger" you start to list that you take "detail shots", "formal shots", "couple shots", etc. People aren't dumb - everyone knows that you'd be taking these shots anyway. Are you not going to take a ring shot because someone didn't pick that package?

Also writing "~150 images" or "unlimited images" is a bad idea in some cases. Being Southeast Asian, I do Indian weddings and if you tell them "unlimited", a lot of people actually think it is "unlimited". I've had people want more pictures after they've seen 1,400. Also, putting a finite number on it is a bad idea in case you can't meet that number for any reason or the clients not liking that number of pics for any reason.

Moreover, don't tell people your most popular package is $1,600. That just puts a value on you in the eyes of potential customers. "Most people hire him for $1,600, so that must mean he's worth $1,600". Why would you ever want to bury yourself in a specific target bracket? For example, that's like my friend telling me this one bakery is really good for muffins and everyone gets muffins - I go in and get a muffin. However, there were so many other potential choices that I would have considered without the influence of my friend.

YMMV.

Brian and Saad,

Thanks guys. Both of you are excellent shooters in my market and I appreciate your thoughts and taking the time to post.

Ok, I've decided to take Brian's advice and keep things simple. Here's my new and improved price list:

My job is to make your day memorable with extraordinary photographic coverage. You can also customize any of my services to meet your requirements.

Wedding packages begin at $900

All my wedding packages include a DVD or CD of your images in full resolution with all printing rights granted to you.

Each image is digitally enhanced. Select duplicates in black and white also included.

Other items/services offered include:

* Custom Albums
* Prints
* Engagement and bridal sessions
* Additional photographers
* Rates vary depending on length of service

Please contact me for a customized rate quote for your wedding.











I'm going back to my "budget roots" for now until I get a few more weddings/referrals under my belt. I'm hoping that by giving my lowest rate as the only one posted, that will get me in the door. I tried going with $1800 as my lowest rate and the inquires stopped.

Brian Mullins wrote:

My packages start @ $2000 for a 4 hour shoot & burn.



Hey Brian. Can I ask about your practice of providing hi-res images on DVD/CD plus printing rights?

1. Do you get many requests for prints when you do this?

2. Doesn't giving up your IP (the files) cut into your potential profits?

There seems to be opposing camps on this issue. Can you share the rationale you took for this approach?

Thanks.

My question is how many weddings have you shot? Are you just shooting low end stuff to get experience so that you can do a major price increase? I love talking business, so if you ever want to chat, feel free to shoot us an email or give us a call any time!

I do agree that simple is best when reading through pricing. Brides want easy to understand stuff that they can make a decision on. You also should put value on what is important (like you shooting the wedding).

-Zach

sjb103052 wrote:
Brian Mullins wrote:

My packages start @ $2000 for a 4 hour shoot & burn.



Hey Brian. Can I ask about your practice of providing hi-res images on DVD/CD plus printing rights?

1. Do you get many requests for prints when you do this?

2. Doesn't giving up your IP (the files) cut into your potential profits?

There seems to be opposing camps on this issue. Can you share the rationale you took for this approach?

Thanks.


Those are excellent questions and I spent quite a bit of time contemplating them myself before adopting this approach. Let me explain my thinking behind it before I answer the questions.

For a 4 hour S&B @ $2000, I'm tapping into the lower/middle budget brides who want good quality photography, but are on a budget. When building your price list, you MUST take into consideration who your client will be as I have with the above example. As soon as you do this, many questions can be answered about what to include.

I do my own printing in house for anything 17x24 & smaller. I market my prints as high quality, long lasting pieces of art, not pictures. If a bride is on a tight budget, then they are not going to want to pay $10 for a 4x6 to get the actual photos they've already "paid" you to take. Right or wrong, that's the reality in this area. Raleigh has three prestigious universities within 30 minutes and is a very technically savvy area. You will be in the minority in this area by not offering the files and it will cost you business in the long run. Let's face it, we're in a digital, on-demand world and trying to hold true to the old, buy as you go with prints does not work anymore - at least in my area. So, getting back to the prints.. I offer these as high-end pieces that will hang on the walls for generations, because that's something the brides cannot get online. Using archival paper & inks is the realm of small printers and boutiques, not wal-marts or Costco. Let's be honest, from a business perspective, would you rather sell 100 4x6's with a small profit margin or 1 24x30?

When determining my pricing, I determined what I would "lose" in print sales by offering the files, and marked up the disc accordingly. I don't make large print sales but I've already received compensation so it's less work and when I do get print orders in, I can provide a superior product at a fair price, and it's additional revenue that wasn't being depended on.

So, to answer your questions:

1 - I average about $150 in after print sales per wedding, even with including the disc.

2 - No, because I am charging accordingly for my images up front. If I "gave" away the CD, I would certainly be cutting into a potential revenue stream.

Again, this is just my take on it based on my local brides. I make it a point to ask everyone of my clients questions like this so I can get an accurate feel of the market. You'll see people say, alot, "Don't give away your images". That is certainly true and I would never "give" mine away.

Again, let me stress this is something I have fine tuned and, sorry, but I won't go into full detail on exactly how I market this. I will say that once you can understand who your client is, you can easily and logically tune your packages to maximize your revenue, minize your expenses and grow your business accordingly.

The Grays wrote:
My question is how many weddings have you shot? Are you just shooting low end stuff to get experience so that you can do a major price increase? I love talking business, so if you ever want to chat, feel free to shoot us an email or give us a call any time!

I do agree that simple is best when reading through pricing. Brides want easy to understand stuff that they can make a decision on. You also should put value on what is important (like you shooting the wedding).

-Zach

I've only shot 1.5 weddings to date (one as primary and one as a second) I do plan on upping my rates next year after I have a couple more weddings in my portfolio. I've got two on the books for spring and anohter for September.

I realize that it's difficult to move from being a budget shooter to a higher end photographer once you become known as a low end guy but I simply can't justify starting out in the $2000 range without having the images to show.

I"m a pretty good photographer, been in the image making business for over 30 years, but I'm brand new to wedddings and I've got a lot to learn. Plus I'm a weekend warrior as I still work full time. I plan on retiring in a couple two or years years and then I'll be a full time wedding shooter....hopefully.

Back to my pricing. I'm still searching for the best language to use to attract the brides to my site. I'll let the quality of my work speak for itself but I have to get them in the door first and I feel the best way to do that is by offering a low end package. I tried setting my lowest price to $1800 and the inquires stopped.

Jim, call me and I'll be happy to talk with you a bit more, maybe give you some ideas you can implement on your pricing list.

Another thing to cosider is advertising to the right market. If you raise your prices to 1,800 and the inquiries stop, maybe it's not the price that is wrong. Rather it could be that you are marketting that price to brides with 900 dollar budget. So, if you're going to raise your price, then invest i marketting at that level. Or else, it'll be useless to raise prices.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Hi Brian:

One thing you might want to modify is your language "all printing rights." I don't give them carte blanche. They could take that to mean they have the right to collect any profit off prints you sell or that they could set themselves up as vendors of their photos. I give them a home use license that retains my right to continue to sell images through my Web site and direct orders.

This year I tried offered a low package of $895 without the high-rez files or $1295 with them. Most people ended up buying the files. I doubled my print prices to push them toward that, but also when I deliver the package give them a certificate for 40 percent off reprint orders in the first 45 days, $75 in free prints if they refer another wedding to me. I do the same for my seniors, families, as I want to turn the job around and make as much as I can in the first 45 days. After that, you seldom see an order.

lots of great info in here.

Carl Feather wrote:
Hi Brian:

One thing you might want to modify is your language "all printing rights." I don't give them carte blanche. They could take that to mean they have the right to collect any profit off prints you sell or that they could set themselves up as vendors of their photos. I give them a home use license that retains my right to continue to sell images through my Web site and direct orders.



Hi Carl - That's a valid concern that I already have covered. It's spelled out in my license as well as my contract what they can & can't do, selling print's or images being in the "you can't category".

My license is strictly for personal prints and even states that "re-sale of any images or prints of images contained on this media is strictly prohibited as per Title 17 of US Copyright Law".

Saad Syed wrote:
Another thing to cosider is advertising to the right market. If you raise your prices to 1,800 and the inquiries stop, maybe it's not the price that is wrong. Rather it could be that you are marketting that price to brides with 900 dollar budget. So, if you're going to raise your price, then invest i marketting at that level. Or else, it'll be useless to raise prices.

Good luck with whatever you decide!


^^^^^^^^^^^

Listen to this man, he knows what he is saying!

Brian Mullins wrote:
sjb103052 wrote:
Brian Mullins wrote:

My packages start @ $2000 for a 4 hour shoot & burn.




Those are excellent questions and I spent quite a bit of time contemplating them myself before adopting this approach. Let me explain my thinking behind it before I answer the questions. ...




Thanks for the thorough answer Brian. I'm another weekend warrior who will be retiring in 2009 and I want to establish a photo business. I'm currently formulating a business and marketing strategy and I value this kind of information. Steve

must read for later...

Brian Mullins wrote:
Jim, call me and I'll be happy to talk with you a bit more, maybe give you some ideas you can implement on your pricing list.

thanks Brian, I'll give you a call this weekend.