No, I'm sorry Marcel, as I was being facetious.

Starbucks is where CL'ers typically do business. Whether it's selling a lens, showing your wedding portfolio, or signing a real estate contract, if you're doing it in a Starbuck's you're doing it CL league. That's all I'm saying.

Anyway, topic's old. Movin' on.

-m

Marcel VanEerd wrote:
mauriceramirez wrote:
Let all the Craigslisters fight over Starbucks tables.-m

.. NOT nice, judgemental and uncalled for.

My 2c

We booked a TN Titan's wedding inside of Starbucks this year! We recently went to a studio space so that we could control the environment, proof and show our canvases. It has not helped us book at a higher percentage rate or book higher end weddings as of yet.

-Zach

Marcel VanEerd wrote:
mauriceramirez wrote:
Let all the Craigslisters fight over Starbucks tables.-m

.. NOT nice, judgemental and uncalled for.

My 2c

I kinda liked it myself.


Starbucks spent a lot of money to design an environment (colors, looks, smells, sounds) that sells coffee. Since we all sell weddings we can do better than that.

Some folks are much better at selling and closing than others. I bet I could pick 6 photogs that could close a wedding on a subway train and find 6 more than couldn't close in the best space money could buy. On average you'll do better in a proper space than as a door to door wedding salesman.

A lot may depend on where you are. I'm in a more rural area and home based businesses are more common, more accepted. In Manhattan doing business in a coffee shop is probably much more normal and trusted, accepted, than it is here.

Sorry, but I'm not going to meet a complete stranger at a starbuck et al, and fork over $2500 or what have you and hope he's legit and shows up in 9 months, compared to meeting someone at their studio,where their name is on the building, I see thousands of dollars in gear, etc. I beleive they'll be around next year or the year after.

Then you have the efficiency thing. My studio is a 30 second walk from my home, vs a 20 minute drive one way to Starbucks. It's obviously more time and fuel efficient to have clients come to me. Those that are willing are more committed than when I have to meet them in the city - if they're not willing to drive 30 minutes to meet me, see my work, when they're going to spend $2-3 grand then they're not all that serious about photography and it's just something on their list to check off.

Getting a studio was the number one best thing we ever did. A few years ago I would have never dreamed we would be booking weddings at the prices we are now. We just booked a 10,000 wedding and having a nice place to meet helps.

Saad,
The good thing about NC is that we don't live in NYC with NYC rent, or even DC, FL, etc. I haven't opened my studio yet, but I was running it out of my house before we started leasing our building. My booking rate may be the same (its more about the personality than residential vs. office, provided your space looks put together), but the thing that no one has mentioned is the traffic you will get with window space. If your space is in the middle of the building, you're shooting yourself in the foot with the lack of window traffic. My husband just hung our pictures in the window last night and said two ladies just stopped and stared. You're going to get so much more business and buzz around your community just by what you hang in the window. Your rent literally becomes your advertising budget. Yes, there's much more to running a business than this, but this is a major thing I haven't seen mentioned yet.

As some may have mentioned, check into the code for your area. I'm certain that in many instances when you are renting/leasing an apt. you cannot use it for commercial/business purposes. (legally anyway) It would be terrible to invest all the time/money and then find out you are being evicted.

Just something to consider.

I used to meet at Starbucks and like someone said it's loud, busy and just overall annoying. It really does nothing to create a mood for your clients. My last new client meeting at a Starbucks was about 8 months ago and it was brutal. Since moving locations, I can honestly say my average booking has increased and I attribute that to the mood and atmosphere around them as they look at the albums. I now meet at a really trendy "spot" (not giving it away in case there are any locals ) that has an incredible wine list, big comfy furniture, very trendy look and they play awesome ambient music...the mood created around them is perfect. Couples take their time looking through the albums and the meetings now last on average 1.5 to 2.5 hours. The place also doesn't get busy until after 9 pm..so most of the time we are the only people there.

Anyway try a different location...pick a spot that reflects you and your work and you will see a difference in your bookings. If they have more time to fall in love with your $3200 wedding book, they will buy your $3200 wedding book.

Cheers.

I'm just not sold that the meeting location will increase or decrease bookings....If I'm a potential client, I'm looking at two things; Cost and Product. Yes, I know everyone is different and that sometimes location does come into play.

Have you ever spoke/emailed a client with the meeting date/time and said, "Starbucks..blah blah blah, see you at 8" And them either not show up, or cancel the meeting?

If an email is made to you, a phone call is placed....The client is interested, but also maybe curious about rates if they aren't listed on your site.

If a meeting is setup, chances are they already know your rates and love you work....The location shouldn't overweigh those two things.

Eh, maybe I make no sense but it's my theory.

Jim

JLinkowitz wrote:
I'm just not sold that the meeting location will increase or decrease bookings....If I'm a potential client, I'm looking at two things; Cost and Product. Yes, I know everyone is different and that sometimes location does come into play.

Have you ever spoke/emailed a client with the meeting date/time and said, "Starbucks..blah blah blah, see you at 8" And them either not show up, or cancel the meeting?

If an email is made to you, a phone call is placed....The client is interested, but also maybe curious about rates if they aren't listed on your site.

If a meeting is setup, chances are they already know your rates and love you work....The location shouldn't overweigh those two things.

Eh, maybe I make no sense but it's my theory.

Jim

Of course location and atmosphere will play in part to your bookings. You can use the analogy as a clean car that smells clean and looks clean will...on average...fetch more then a the same car that is dirty and not so nice smelling...they both have 4 wheels and both drive fine...but again on average the cleaner and "nicer" of the two will get a higher price. Also the same with homes..."staging" is everything when it comes to selling a house. A nice atmosphere will sell a house at a higher price and faster. I used to manage in retail for a major electronics retailer and H.O. use to tell the appliance sales staff to make popcorn as smell plays a huge part in peoples comfort levels...and trust me if they are comfortable they are more likely to purchase or in our case...book. Don't believe me...walk into any boutique shop...they have a great atmosphere, they are not loud, they smell inviting, they look uncluttered and clean. Then walk into a Wal-Mart or Kmart...they smell dirty, they are loud, busy, cluttered....it all plays into the purchasing psyche...maybe not consciously...but trust me it does make a difference.

cheers

Cathy Yount wrote:
Your rent literally becomes your advertising budget.

+1 ..

a high-traffic area like a main street has many people passing by every day.

It's not really targeted marketing as 95% of those people are not in the immediate market for photography, but it is valuable for raising your brand name in the community.

Environment matters!
Check out high end retailers vs walmart. Is Aeropostale or Hollister anything at all like the clothing dept at Walmart, kmart, target? Of course not, but jeans are jeans. Or are they? In the client's mind they are not the same jeans. And of course the prices are not the same.

A lot of what you are selling is the experience. Why pay $60,000 for a lexus if a toyota can be had for half that? Both get you from here to there. Status is some of it, but the buying experience, the after sale experience, the EXPERIENCE, is different.

If you are meeting them at Starbucks and the next photog they meet is at a nice studio with huge prints, 10 albums to show, no crowds, 70 inch screen for the slideshow with surround sound do you think you stand a chance? Can the studio guy get more money for the same stuff? Which EXPERIENCE is better from teh customer's point of view?

I'll have more proof of this in a month as I just moved into a new space that is 10 times higher end than my old space. Will the $8000 in remodeling/furniture/samples make a difference? I'll know soon enough!

When we opened our studio in January, it was only a matter of weeks before business was increasing beyond what we could book. Within a couple of months, we were booked a solid year out. If you called today for a full family shoot, we couldn't get you in until November or December of next year.

It really isn't a matter of whether or not you've booked well at Starbucks (or other locations like that). It's a matter of what you can do if you're NOT there... and what you can do if you put real intention into what your studio space looks like. If a studio doesn't increase your traffic and your sales, then you didn't do it right. I firmly believe that. Even if you were successful BEFORE... it should make a difference.

In case you missed the post about ours:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/679022/0

-Mel

It's a matter of what you can do if you're NOT there..

That is a fact. If you count travel time and everything else it takes a big bite out of your productive hours.

2 flights of steps in an apartment building seems like a 1980's photographer that does it on the side. Now if you were talking house then different story.

Our studio is the entire basement of our house. Finished with it's own entrance and hallway in. We use to do the coffee shop thing and it was cool for a while. But it had to change. It is nice to be at home too so when we are done I'm done and no wasted time

So far dark alleys after twilight has worked well for me.

Just to throw this out there: John Griffin and Jesse Leak rent a house in Pacific Heights (very high-end SF photographers). I talked to John about it for a bit and he said it has worked out great for him and they've been there over 5 years. I think it is a good idea, go for it.

Is meeting with someone who is not your client and discussing the prospect of doing business the same as "doing business"?

technocraft wrote:
Is meeting with someone who is not your client and discussing the prospect of doing business the same as "doing business"?

Depends on your municipality and their eagerness to extract tax from you & enforce their zoning regulations.

There are lots of home based businesses that attract no attention but if you have a steady stream of clients coming back & forth for meetings, picking up prints, etc. and they are creating parking or other issues then someone may complain. At that point the municipality would have to act and enforce their regulations.

Mike Mahoney wrote:
technocraft wrote:
Is meeting with someone who is not your client and discussing the prospect of doing business the same as "doing business"?

Depends on your municipality and their eagerness to extract tax from you & enforce their zoning regulations.

There are lots of home based businesses that attract no attention but if you have a steady stream of clients coming back & forth for meetings, picking up prints, etc. and they are creating parking or other issues then someone may complain. At that point the municipality would have to act and enforce their regulations.

reason why we are putting in a larger driveway to ahve 8 cars in it at a time. just in case someone complains.

what about municipal zoning violations?!

swim_r wrote:
My day job is for an Insurance Inspections company. In almost every account we have if you have a business on the same property as a residence, your home or renters insurance gets cancelled, no questions asked.


I don't know who you work for, but MANY of today's businesses are run from a home. Even when you do your taxes there are calculations to determine how much of the home is designated for residency and business use.

BTW, State Farm is my insurance agent and it's never been a question over the years. Matter of fact, before I went with them I called around to several companies and there was no hint of an issue.

Consider homes/apartments above restaurants and other types of business that blanket the U.S.

Or am I misunderstanding your statement?

Saad, If you took the extra cost of keeping the apartment as a studio and added that to your rent budget, could you rent a place nice enough and big enough to work as home and office/studio? And maybe even have enough left over to put some nice furniture and big prints in the office part? As it is now, would you be paying rent and utilities for both places?

cordellwillis wrote:
swim_r wrote:
My day job is for an Insurance Inspections company. In almost every account we have if you have a business on the same property as a residence, your home or renters insurance gets cancelled, no questions asked.


I don't know who you work for, but MANY of today's businesses are run from a home. Even when you do your taxes there are calculations to determine how much of the home is designated for residency and business use.

BTW, State Farm is my insurance agent and it's never been a question over the years. Matter of fact, before I went with them I called around to several companies and there was no hint of an issue.

Consider homes/apartments above restaurants and other types of business that blanket the U.S.

Or am I misunderstanding your statement?


There is a difference between having an office that you do work out of and having a business that has or creates foot traffic out of your home. Insurance is worried about the business that had foot traffic. I am not saying that you cant have a business in your residence, I am just saying check with your insurance company because under a lot of typical home policies having a business that creates foot traffic will cancel your policy.