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Craig Yannuzzi Registered: Dec 30, 2006 Total Posts: 1529 Country: United States |
Had my niece and nephew over this weekend for some pics and noticed that some of the shots seemed "hazy". Or at least thats how they looked to me. I've posted a shot to illustrate what some pictures looked like straight out of the camera. I think the washed out look of the subject is due to the spill over from my background lights?? Is it some sort of flair? |
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k7xd Registered: May 29, 2005 Total Posts: 1911 Country: United States |
It does not look that bad to me. |
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Paratima Registered: Mar 22, 2004 Total Posts: 2088 Country: United States |
The catchlights in her eyes show a couple of strobes and she has a very "flat" look. k7xd's suggestion is good, but maybe also let a little shadow in to show some depth? Just an idea. |
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Photon Registered: Jan 19, 2003 Total Posts: 8578 Country: United States |
Paratima wrote: |
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Gregg Heckler Registered: Aug 07, 2005 Total Posts: 1380 Country: United States |
Keep in mind your BG lights aren't exposing the front of you subject. Your background light was fine. It's your key and fill that's the problem (or maybe your concern). It's pretty flat as evidenced by the catchlights in her eyes. Both lights are a little low and the ratio is pretty even causing the image to look a little flat. It may even be a tiny bit over exposed. This lighting is OK if you're copying a page from a book, but 3 dimensional objects usually looking better with a little more modeling (ratio). |
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Craig Yannuzzi Registered: Dec 30, 2006 Total Posts: 1529 Country: United States |
Thanks guys for the responses! |
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cgardner Registered: Nov 18, 2002 Total Posts: 7939 Country: United States |
Your background is clipped to 255. 255 = pure light. Is your background made out of pure light? ![]() When setting exposure I use a target like the one below with a textured white towel, which unlike smooth targets will reveal visually when detail is starting to be lost in the highlights. Preserving that detail is what defines a correct exposure. The MacBeth color target is useful for judging the effects of flare on saturation of color. ![]() I'll start with the background lighting off, as above and adjust the foreground lighting until the brightest highlight on the foreground, such as the rim-light on the towel, is about 1/3 stop below clipping in the the over-exposure warning (OEW). Why 1/3 stop? Because by doing a bracketed series of exposures previously and comparing what the camera OEW showed vs. when detail in the RAW file started to melt away I found the best exposure of the white towel - a proxy for highlight detail in clothing, eyes, teeth, etc. - was 1/3 stop below the point the camera playback started to show clipping. Once I get the foreground zeroed in I raise the background lighting to the point where it starts to show clipping in the OEW, then back it down until the OEW warning disappears. The OEW reveals where clipping is occurring first so I can use it to guide light placement to make the lighting of the background as even as possible. ![]() The background isn't captured in the camera as "knock-out" white (255) but rather ideally somewhere around 250.250.250. Note in the shot above that the rim lighting of the towel is still visible? That's something you need to grasp about the perceptual aspects of lighting on white backgrounds. To make the white highlights on the foreground subjects visible and do their important perceptual job creating the illusion of 3D via contrast its necessary to make the "white" of the background a slightly darker shade of white. If you go back and compare the rim lighting on the towel in the first shot, before the background lights were even turned on you'll note that when the background is darker the stuff in the foreground actually seems brighter perceptually. That's because the brain, while it will ignore the background detail by virtue of the fact the eye in person would render it out of focus will key off the background tone to "anchor" the tonal scale. All of this advice flies in the face of conventional wisdom which says to over-expose the background by a stop to knock it out completely. But consider that if you over-expose the background by a stop you will be bouncing twice as much flare light back into to lens than if you expose the background below clipping. You'll find your foreground subjects are more saturated... Try it both ways and compare the results. With regard to lighting your subject in the foreground, use butterfly for full face views. Full face is a symmetrical view of the face, so you need a complementary symmetrical lighting pattern to create natural downward modeling. Put one light directly over the camera lens above eye level, but not so high the brow begins to shade the eyes and the fill source below the lens. ![]() ![]() ![]() That placement of the light will create a highlight down the center ridge of the nose and even shadows on either side, which creates the appearance of symmetry. If you cross lights horizontally they cancel each other and you get the opposite, a darker line or zone down the center of the face and unfilled areas where neither light reaches. If you were to place one light to the side and the fill over the camera it would create a sideway shadow pattern which when overlapping the full face view would have the net effect of making the highlighted side bigger than the shadow side and the face look asymmetrical. The key-light-to-side "short" lighting pattern is more effective for oblique views on dark backgrounds... ![]() Compare how that lighting models the face, vs the "broad" lighting from the other side... ![]() But for an oblique view on white short lighting may not be effective. The goal is to make the face overall contrast with the background but also pull the attention of the viewer to the front of it. You can see in the examples above how the short lighting on the dark background does that by creating compelling contrast your eye can't resist. But put that same lighting pattern on a white background and the brightly lit far side of the face will disappear perceptually into the background. So instead the more effective strategy for oblique views on white backgrounds is broad lighting with light open shadows. Broad light will make the far side of the face slightly darker, allowing it to contrast well against the white background and an the same time make the side of the head facing the camera brighter and blend into the background perceptually. The net effect of the lighting pattering is a contrast gradient which pulls the attention of the viewer to the slightly darker far side: the same dynamic of eye movement as short lighting on a dark background. Moving the eye of the viewer to what is most important with CONTRAST is what lighting patterns are all about. So when you are moving lights around try to understand the underlying goals of what the lights should be doing, to pull the viewer into the front of the face and model it in a way that looks slim and symmetrical with natural downward modeling of the nose and cheeks, no harsh shadows, and good light and a catchlight in both eyes. The thing which isn't grasped immediately about white backgrounds is the fact that COLOR contrast of warm skin is often a stronger attractive than tonal contrast, especially if the subject is a blonde. If the subject has dark hair you'll notice the hair first, color contrast of the face second. If the subject is a blonde, it will be color contrast alone which pulls the eye into the face. That's why non-competing, non-distracting clothing is an important consideration on white backgrounds. Little girls are traditionally dressed in pink, but a pink dress will overpower the face. If the goal is to see the face use a white dress with a pink collar. Click the WWW button and look in the TOC for tutorials on basic lighting configurations and why they work, and how to expose white background shots correctly perceptually. Chuck |
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Craig Yannuzzi Registered: Dec 30, 2006 Total Posts: 1529 Country: United States |
cgardner wrote: |
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bobbyz Registered: Jun 29, 2004 Total Posts: 1737 Country: United States |
Craig Yannuzzi wrote: |
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shatterkiss Registered: Sep 30, 2004 Total Posts: 3894 Country: United States |
bobbyz wrote: |
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Craig Yannuzzi Registered: Dec 30, 2006 Total Posts: 1529 Country: United States |
shatterkiss wrote: |
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shatterkiss Registered: Sep 30, 2004 Total Posts: 3894 Country: United States |
Craig Yannuzzi wrote: |
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DennisW1 Registered: Sep 07, 2008 Total Posts: 41 Country: United States |
cgardner wrote: |
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c.d.embrey Registered: Aug 21, 2008 Total Posts: 1146 Country: United States |
shatterkiss wrote: |
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cgardner Registered: Nov 18, 2002 Total Posts: 7939 Country: United States |
If you start by metering the background by the time you add key and fill, especially in a butterfly configuration, the background will become grossly overexposed. That's a procedural error I think many who blow out backgrounds make. The meter for the background to be 1/2 to a full stop above the key light, but when key and fill fall-off get added it may wind up 2 or more stops over. If its blown to begin with there's really no way to tell in the photo how overexposed it is. 255 could mean 1/8th stop past clipping or 8 stops. |
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shatterkiss Registered: Sep 30, 2004 Total Posts: 3894 Country: United States |
cgardner wrote: |
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c.d.embrey Registered: Aug 21, 2008 Total Posts: 1146 Country: United States |
Once again, I agree with shatterkiss. Is this art or paint-by-the-numbers |
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cgardner Registered: Nov 18, 2002 Total Posts: 7939 Country: United States |
Teaching technique to the clueless beginner learning how to use tools and using them from a framework of experience are two different things. |
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alanwarp Registered: Oct 09, 2007 Total Posts: 946 Country: United States |
Funny quote on working with white seamless, helped me realize some of the challenges, like needing a new house |
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adamdewilde Registered: Jul 04, 2005 Total Posts: 2912 Country: Singapore |
Simon, how would one go about setting up each light at a time, if one happens to be using an Acute2 pack and heads, each time one adds a new head, the power for the lights has to change. |
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shatterkiss Registered: Sep 30, 2004 Total Posts: 3894 Country: United States |
adamdewilde wrote: |
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cgardner Registered: Nov 18, 2002 Total Posts: 7939 Country: United States |
c.d.embrey wrote: |
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adamdewilde Registered: Jul 04, 2005 Total Posts: 2912 Country: Singapore |
shatterkiss wrote: |
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Tareq Registered: Aug 17, 2006 Total Posts: 192 Country: United Arab Emirates |
very interesting thread. |