Help with Softbox Size and Speedlights
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Chris Noyes
Registered: Jun 23, 2007
Total Posts: 892
Country: United States

While I'm not a complete noob with respect to photography, I haven't got much experience with portraiture lighting techniques. Since getting back into SLR photography a few years ago with Nikon gear, I have enjoyed the occasional opportunity to play with CLS and off camera flash. A few months ago, I picked up a second SB-600 with the thought of applying it toward making better portraits of my daughter and other family members, but no real urgency to acquire any light modifiers until I had the time and drive to research options further.

Just a week or so ago, I picked up a Nikon School DVD entitled "A Hands-on Guide to Creative Lighting". I found this DVD to be helpful and inspiring enough to get me moving on this and spend some money (hundreds, not thousands mind you). In the past, I've attended a few Nikon School seminars where they've demonstrated CLS using a variety of light modifiers. I know I'd like to get at least two stands (8 ft); umbrella bracket(s); a white, shoot-through umbrella; reflector kit (containing white, silver and gold), and a softbox.

I'll probably pick up a SB-900 to give me a total of 3 CLS capable speedlights and use the SB-900 with the softbox while the SB-600s can handle the hair-light and background lighting.

What is the largest-sized , and most recommended speedlight compatible softbox to get? Also, what's the best umbrella size to get. I envision shots with as many as 3 people, but no more, and often just my daughter.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated as well.

Happy Thanksgiving!



shoebox9
Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Total Posts: 266
Country: Australia

For quick and easy, small flash friendly softboxes, it's hard to go past Lastolite's folding pop up thingy's. They're only available up to 24"x24" though. For a large, cheap, very-soft-for-your-buck modifier, consider umberella boxes. Light spilling in all directions can be an issue, but for soft lit kiddy pics it's hard to go wrong (use an omni-diffuser on the flash unit and set it at it's widest head zoom setting).

If you want soft light and directional control, that's when it sharts to get expensive IMHO.



Chris Noyes
Registered: Jun 23, 2007
Total Posts: 892
Country: United States

shoebox

The Lastolite EZYbox softbox looks interesting, though small. I've been told by one of my local camera shops that speedlights can only be used with smaller softboxes so the EZYbox seems consistent with that advise, though they're trying to upsell me to using a strobe system.

I'd rather stick with the Nikon CLS system and use iTTL for exposure control for now. I believe this will allow me to more easily take this gear outdoors, but 24" x 24" seems too small (but I'm new at this so I really have no idea and the more advise I get, the better I'll feel about it).

Will the Lastolite umbrella box work with an SB-900?

By the way, thank you very much for these suggestions . . . I will look into these options and see if I can find them locally.



shoebox9
Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Total Posts: 266
Country: Australia

Yes, 24x24 is small. They also have a 36"x36" version, but it doesn't come with a small flash bracket.

Will an umbrella box work with an SB900? I haven't tired one with a small fash, but I can't imagine why not. You'd just have to face the front of the flash sidewards for the CLS eye, and use an omni-bounce for spread.

Indoors 50w's (ie an SB900 on half power) is usually the most I'd use in the 54" version. This fills light from a big window (or creates one), nicely enough. Maybe someone who has tried it will chip in. Obviously we aren't talking f8 here, but I presume you don't want/need that.



cgardner
Registered: Nov 18, 2002
Total Posts: 8543
Country: United States

Conventional wisdom says bigger is better with modifiers, but it is not necessary to use huge modifiers to obtain perceptually "soft" lighting if you know how to control key and fill lighting with two separate flashes effectively.

"Soft" lighting is a complex perceptual illusion created by a number of factors and how fuzzy the edges of the shadows are plays a minor role. The more important factors are: 1) precise placement of shadows so they naturally model the the shape of the nose, cheeks and other facial features, and 2) how light the core area of the shadows are. So its possible to create soft looking lighting with two direct flashes if key and fill are used in cooperation with each other effectively: key light to model the shape of the face via its position relative the nose, and fill to lift the shadows the key light creates up into the range where the short range of the digital sensor can record detail. That's especially true outdoors when the sun is used as backlight. This test was done to illustrate that fact:



This image is copyrighted by the owner




It was taken with two direct flashes. One on a bracket above the lens and the other about 6 feet away to the right. The lighting on the front of the face looks soft with smooth transitions because outdoors with back the the sun the face of the subject is oriented towards God's own softbox, the Northern sky. The only problem is the technical limitation of the camera to record all that soft lighting with the short range of the sensor pushes into the shadows. So outdoors all the flash really needs to do is give the fill from the sky a boost. Because the sky wraps around the subject 360 degrees that same softening effect is also added to the direct off camera flash. So you really don't need huge diffusers outdoors to create soft looking lighting. The only place the shadow are harsh in the example above are under the chin where little fill from sky or flash reached, but that's an area where shadows naturally occur so the brain will tend to tune them out anyway when focusing on the highlights on the front of the face.

Indoors the most effective fill mimics that same sky effect. In the 1960s it was common practice for studio shooters to bounce their fill flash towards the back wall of the studio which was painted white on all three walls near the back to create the same wrap effect. With a single flash that same neutral fill effect can be obtained by simply putting the flash above the camera lens.



This image is copyrighted by the owner





This image is copyrighted by the owner




Diffusion is required to soften shadow edges created by an off camera light source, but with flash placed over the camera for fill there are few shadows visible to the camera. So do you really need to diffuse shadows you can't see with a huge diffuser on the fill? No. Actually a bare bulb flash can be a very effective fill source if it is kept near the camera axis here it will not create shadows which might overlap the shadows created by the key light (i.e., crossed-shadow lighting). You want to avoid crossed-shadow lighting because wherever the key and fill shadows cross you'll get a dark dead void because neither light reaches there.

Indoors a simple neutral fill based lighting strategy results in soft looking lighting with smooth transitions because the key and fill work together cooperatively to create modeling and apparent softness via how light or dark the shadows are. Softer looking light is most a matter of adding more fill, which is why low ratio lighting is more flattering for babies, young kids and women of all ages. When you increase the ratio and make the shadows darker the perception is that the lighting is harder and more "rugged" which makes it effective perceptually for portraying men and boys you want to look mature, or women you want to look tough, determined, etc.

Thus lighting portraits effectively is actually more reliant on understanding how lighting ratio affects perception of cultural / societal conventions and stereotypes that how big of a soft box you use. Don't fall into the trap of making the lighting solution fit the tools. Instead understand the goals for the lighting -- the emotional reaction you want it to evoke in the mind of the viewer -- and let that understanding guide your choice of tools.

Consider that hot shoe flash isn't designed as a substitute for studio lighting. Its best used as a tool for "studio style" lighting with 3D modeling in candid, dynamic situations like wedding receptions. If portrait lighting is your goal you'd be better served by investing in studio lights with a battery inverter than trying to make the hot shoe flash into a studio lighting rig. The Nikon system, like Canon, relies on coded optical control pre-flashes for setting the slaves and their performance can be compromised by using large modifiers which cover up the sensors on the slaves.

All lighting solutions tend to become compromises between results and convenience. While you would certainly get better results with studio style modifiers on hot shoe flash vs direct flash, you can also get very flattering results with smaller modifiers used with two hot shoe flashes in a key / neutral fill configuration:



This image is copyrighted by the owner




Common sense argues to try the simplest and least expensive approaches first and nothing is cheaper than building stuff yourself:



This image is copyrighted by the owner




I used the manual flash approach for many years and also have a set of studio lights to use when I want more sophisticated results and control. But for location shooting I just grab my shoulder bag with its two speedlights, folding diffuers, bracket and a single stand and go because I understand how to use lighting effectively and its the best balance of convenience and results I've found after trying just about everything else. It also doesn't preclude using other techniques such as various forms of bounce for key and fill, a larger modifier like an umbrella on the off camera flash (which is mounted on an umbrella bracket, or adding a reflector or two to nuance the fill from over the camera. Its similar to a Swiss Army knife in that it is is a single tool which can perform all the tasks most other modifier strategies do with similar results, more conveniently. See this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/712161/0#6427656 for more detail on this approach.

Also read these tutorials before spending your discretionary income:
How diffusion actually works
How to create a DIY diffuser

I use Canon, but the principles of use are the same regardless of brand:
Using multiple Canon flashes

Chuck







Chris Noyes
Registered: Jun 23, 2007
Total Posts: 892
Country: United States

I just found an interesting web article quite interesting that addressed my initial questions. In case anyone else is interested this is the link I found.

I would love to hear feedback from others either pro or con.



shoebox9
Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Total Posts: 266
Country: Australia

Good link Chris,

It's always good to read from someone who's already done something you want to try. For more power you could use a double flash bracket BTW.


Chuck,

Thanks for your extensive post. I personally believe it's all about more than "just" soft shadows. Because light sources reflect off subject's skin, using a larger source will generally create smoother reflections of that source across your subject's faces. What you're doing is certainly very easy to pack however!



Michael White
Registered: Jan 21, 2007
Total Posts: 686
Country: United States

I have 2 16x16 that I use with my Vivitar 285's and will be getting a Photoflex bracket that will let me use a Canon 580exII with it later on. I see that Photoflex has a 16x20 that is their small softbox for speedlights and this is what the bracket is made for. The whole kit. Soft box and bracket is less than $80 plus shipping last week when I checked it out. And They have fabric grids and modifiers like a circle and another one that makes it a strip light by blocking the light one the edges. I wish my came with the grids. The eBay version of min are about half that itf you check deep enough and it includes a speed ring that the bracket(not included), the Soft Box, three modifiers and I believe a light stand for aroudn the price of the Photoflex kit then all you would need it the photoflex brkt which is going for less $20 if you do a search. It used to be around $70 from what I have heard.



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