Hi,

I have had an imac G5 for about three years. Looking to upgrade soon. Would it be a mistake to purchase the 20 inch mac with the glossy glass screen for photography purposes? I have heard that the glare can be a problem. I do not want to spent $3,000 - $4,000 on a power mac and a cinema screen. It is just not needed at this point. I guess another alternative would be to purchase the 20 inch imac and the 20 inch cinema screen at about $2,000. Please follow up with your thoughts and suggestions.

Jim

It would be a mistake to edit photos on the most recent 20" iMac screen--not just because of the glass but because the color and luminosity vary wildly when you move your head around. I don't know what they used to use in iMacs, but this one is not an IPS panel.

That's not to say it's not a good machine for editing--it's what I'm using as of a week ago--but you'll want to run a real monitor next to it and use the iMac screen just for palettes and such. It can run a 1920-pixel-wide second monitor with no problems.

I have read that the 20" iMac is a TN screen, but the 24" is S-IPS. I haven't used a TN screen (based on advice in these forums) but am very happy with my 20" ACD. Unfortunately, there's no cheap way to get into a photo-capable Mac with separate screen. The Mac mini's don't cut it, and the next step up is a Mac Pro. At least for your next upgrade you will only need to replace the box only, so it will be cheaper!

andrewd01 wrote:
I have read that the 20" iMac is a TN screen, but the 24" is S-IPS. I haven't used a TN screen (based on advice in these forums) but am very happy with my 20" ACD. Unfortunately, there's no cheap way to get into a photo-capable Mac with separate screen. The Mac mini's don't cut it, and the next step up is a Mac Pro. At least for your next upgrade you will only need to replace the box only, so it will be cheaper!


A 20" iMac with upgraded graphics card, paired with a 24" PVA or IPS external monitor, will still cost far less than a Mac Pro box with no monitor--and it's a very capable machine. It absolutely smokes my two-year-old winbox. Of course the iMacs aren't as fast as the Mac Pro boxes, but I've been very impressed with mine.

Considering the cost of the 24" iMacs, it seems like you get more bang for your buck with a 20" plus second (non-glossy) monitor.

yes you are right, I was thinking from a standpoint of only wanting one screen on your desk. If you have the desk space your suggestion is certainly cheaper in the short term, but maybe not in the long term. I think we are only a year or two away from Photoshop being 64-bit and multi-core capable. Therefore a used or refurbished Mac pro could be a more future-proof option.

Hi,

Thanks for the input. Just went to the local Apple Store. I asked them if the 20" ACD was an IPS panel. No one in the store knew what I was talking about, let alone be able to answer me. Can anyone tell me what type of panel the 20" ACD is? Is the 24 inch imac the same panel as the 20 inch?

Thanks,

Jim

J4644 wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for the input. Just went to the local Apple Store. I asked them if the 20" ACD was an IPS panel. No one in the store knew what I was talking about, let alone be able to answer me. Can anyone tell me what type of panel the 20" ACD is? Is the 24 inch imac the same panel as the 20 inch?

Thanks,

Jim

Hi Jim,

I'm currently doing identical research as to upgrading from my iMac G5. To answer your original post first, I've given serious consideration to a new 24" aluminum iMac, either 3.06 or 2.8 GHz model but have decided that having more than 2 processors is what I will be needing for more capable RAW processing (Moving from an 8MP 30D to a 21MP 5D MkII this coming spring also, sorta, helped make up my mind for me!) Budget considerations, however, have me looking at Apple refurbs or holding off until until the expected newer Pros become available sometime after the new year (and saving some more green) before deciding whether to go brand-spanking-new or shop for a close-out on the current line. (Monitors are a whole other discussion!)

As for the iMac screen differences between 24" and 20" this issue had been discussed widely on the web, and from what I've read the issue is real...

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5613256

...with sublink citation to...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

...plus from another site an actual image of the backside of a dissassembled 2008 iMac's 24" LCD panel, clearly showing the model # LG/Philips LM240WU2...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=6566cd5895e5ce7b936ec0ba3cdf081a&t=350120&page=3

...which happens to be the same H-IPS LCD panel in the NEC LCD2490WUXi monitor! For comparison an image of the backside of a disassembled 2007 iMac's 20" LCD panel, which clearly shows the model # LG/Philips LM201WE3...

http://www.kodawarisan.com/imac_2007_mid/imac_2007_mid_03.html

...which happens to be the same panel (one of 2 they used, actually) found in the Dell SP2008WFP monitor.


There is a rather lively discussion on Apple's implementation of the LM240WU2 panel over at discussions.apple.com that is certainly worth a read for those in the market for this technology...

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1316371

...hopefully this is helpful?! Of course, googling any of the product models described will give you more reading material than most people care to sift through!

Best of luck with your shopping...keep us informed which way you decided to go. I for one would appreciate your feedback!

Mac on!
Jimmy G

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for the great information. I read through it all. It appears from one source that the mid-2007 24 inch imac is made by L.G. Philips and had the number LM240WU2 (SL) (B1) and is an S-IPS panel. However, another states that the newer 24 inch panels are H-IPS. I am not sure if there would be a significant difference between the two, but surely it should be one or the other, it cannot be an H panel and an S panel. All seem to agree on 8 bit, I hope true 8 bit without dithering.

The 20 inch appears to be a TN with 6 bit. A totally different panel and more than likely not as good for photo editing.

All ACD monitors are S-IPS, 8 bit, made by philips. So no argument here. No one could say what the (SL) (A1) or (B1) stands for.

I have a Spyder 2 Pro and there seems to be a slight problem with calibration and the glossy glass screen. Apparently the older white 24 inch macs are coveted because they did not show gradient problems regarding brightness uniformity etc.

I guess the question for me at this point, is can I live with the glossy glass screen with it's reflection and possible calibration problem with the Spyder 2 Pro? I may be able to. However, I cannot live with the gradient problem if indeed the one I buy has one.

Apparently, the NEC LCD2490WUXI is the same panel as the 24 inch imac panel with no mention of the gradient problem. So, at this point, I will look into that monitor a little further.

Thanks again,

Jim

Hi again, Jim,
<<
J4644 wrote:
Hi Jimmy,

Thanks for the great information. I read through it all. It appears from one source that the mid-2007 24 inch imac is made by L.G. Philips and had the number LM240WU2 (SL) (B1) and is an S-IPS panel. However, another states that the newer 24 inch panels are H-IPS. I am not sure if there would be a significant difference between the two, but surely it should be one or the other, it cannot be an H panel and an S panel. All seem to agree on 8 bit, I hope true 8 bit without dithering.
>>

The current wiki on these differences here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

...proceed at your own risk!

<<
The 20 inch appears to be a TN with 6 bit. A totally different panel and more than likely not as good for photo editing.

All ACD monitors are S-IPS, 8 bit, made by philips. So no argument here. No one could say what the (SL) (A1) or (B1) stands for.
>>

The product data sheets found here...

http://www.beyondinfinite.com/library.html

...offer no insight into the meaning of those suffixes (SLA1, etc). About the only differences I could ascertain between monitor variants were the surface coatings used to protect the polarizing membranes on the units.

<<
I have a Spyder 2 Pro and there seems to be a slight problem with calibration and the glossy glass screen. Apparently the older white 24 inch macs are coveted because they did not show gradient problems regarding brightness uniformity etc.

I guess the question for me at this point, is can I live with the glossy glass screen with it's reflection and possible calibration problem with the Spyder 2 Pro? I may be able to. However, I cannot live with the gradient problem if indeed the one I buy has one.
>>

Well, I've seen some images on the net where folks have had this problem...seemed the best solution was to bring the unit back to Apple for exchange or repair. However, I just helped a friend with their purchase of a 24" 3.06GHz unit and her monitor was flawless. I guess monitors are no less prone to problems than lenses! ;-)

<<
Apparently, the NEC LCD2490WUXI is the same panel as the 24 inch imac panel with no mention of the gradient problem. So, at this point, I will look into that monitor a little further.

Thanks again,

Jim
>>

One thing that did turn up in my research on the NEC monitors, that I think you might find important, is the color gamut that the models can handle. The 2490WUXI achieves 76% of Adobe RGB, the 2690WUXI covers 93.8% and the newer 2690WUXI2 (due out in December '08) will achieve 97.8%.

Of note, apparently the NECs offer their own technologies (proprietary?) to deal with illumination consistency and evenness, above and beyond that found in the iMac's implementation.

Also of note, the iMac will support an external monitor up to 1920x1200. And, I had considered this configuration for myself, giving me the ability to work on the images themselves in a non-glossy environment. The same can be accomplished with the MacBook Pros. (FYI, the early '08 MBP closeouts are currently available at unprecedented prices at various resellers! Something to consider.)

And, finally, the Mac rumor sites are currently anticipating the arrival of quad-core iMacs with the new year, possibly as early as the next Macworld Expo in January '09. This could be a game-changer for me as I'm not looking to do any personal shopping along these lines until after the holidays.

Well, one could easily drive themselves to the point of distraction with all this technical stuff...the question eventually becomes (with this ever-developing technology) "just how important is this over the lifetime of a given product?" For me, I consider myself a fairly well-researched shopper when it comes to my technology purchases, but once I've got my gear in hand it's time to start exploring my creative impulses and see what I can create with the tools at hand. Afterall, there is light waiting to be captured!

Best of luck!

Peace,
Jimmy G

Note: Edited for grammar, and "1920x1600" became "1920x1200"

Hi Jimmy,

Thanks again for the additional information. I looked into the NEC and found it for $1,105 on Amazon. Seems to be a little expensive in my opinion. I could take a chance on the new 24 inch imac, hope it has no gradient problem and learn to work with the glossiness. That would be approximately $2,000. I could also go with the 20 inch imac and add the 20 inch ACD at approximately $2,000. I guess I am going to start another post with a different question and see what additional information I can get.

You are correct in saying that this can drive you crazy if you let it. I just want to make an improvement in my upgrade, and if I do this, I am sure I will be happy for a number of years.

Thanks,

Jim