OK, so I've shot a bunch with my 50mm 1.8 over the past few years... and never had really great success approaching minimum focusing distance, at wide apertures. I blamed it on the AF accuracy....

Now I've got my new (old) Rokkor 58mm 1.4 courtesy of our esteemed James Buchanan and I can tell it works perfectly. The problem I'm still having is a very low keeper count when handheld.

I SWEAR I've seen other people do this.... shouldn't I be able to shoot handheld, at 1.4, 58mm, at distances of 4-5 feet and get sharp photos? I understand the DOF is less than an inch - I've looked it up. But I don't FEEL like my body is moving before I hit the shutter.

I certainly understand I can get a focusing screen that will help with the focusing part, but I don't think that's the problem here (although I'm not sure). I think I'm just moving.

How do other people do this?!?! How can one stay still enough or keep the camera stable enough to shoot at these apertures? What's the trick?

Thanks
-Glenn

Focus screen helps a lot. Stock screen only shows DOF to about 2.8, so you can be off but it will still look in focus on the screen. the EC-s or EE-s is the preferred one for fast glass. It makes a big difference you can see, honestly. I have one and wouldn't go back to the stock screen for this purpose. The E*-s screen is about 2 stops difference, so it will show about 2 stops less DOF. It has a steeper parabola of acceptable focus, for the technical amongst us.

-Ed

Thanks. My challenge is - with my 1D II - I mostly shoot with AF lenses, so I don't want to do anything that would impact AF performance with the standard EF lenses.

Someone recommended the Ec-c4 - how is that different than what you recommend below? There is surprisingly little information online about these focus screens (at least that I've found).

Thanks

It is not a matter of you staying still. You simply have to use a higher shutter speed.

Hmm. You mean higher than normally required to stop motion?

i.e. if I USUALLY require 1/100th of a second to eliminate camera shake, I should shoot at faster speeds, due to the wider apertures?

That's a new one for me, I never thought of that. I'll give it a try - thanks!

What shutter speeds are you using? I know that I need 1/250th, even with a 50mm, to ensure sharpness. That old '1/focal length' nugget will get you into more trouble than it's worth. Find out what YOU are capable of and forget about everyone else's tales about how low a shutter speed they can shoot at!

JJ

I hear you - I would say, for me, at 50mm on my 1D, I woudl get good results at 1/100th or faster (preferrably 1/125th).

Does the wider aperture mean I would need faster shutter speeds? Are we saying teh more shallow DOF from the wider aperture woudl somehow exaggerate camera shake?

Thanks

Oh one clarification that impacts the shutter speed idea - I am still having problems even with flash. It DOES seem less severe (more keepers) but still a low keeper rate.

Thanks
-Glenn

I went through all this with a 5D, the Takumar 50/1.4 and Rokkor 58/1.2 lenses. I did numerous focus tests and then ordered ten different Canon focus screen shims/washers followed by more tests before installing the right shim/washer that gives me accurate focus at 1.2...

Holy run on sentence Batman...

Well.... which one was it? :-)

Fast prime lens will be a little less sharp at wide open aperture no matter what. They are designed to let a lot of light in under low light condition. Only a very few fast primes are designed for wide open sharpness. So you will have to compromise a little. Close the aperture down to f2.0 and bump up the shutter speed a little and you will see a drastic increase in sharpness.

My 58 1.4 Rokkor was not sharp at all wide open, or even a few stops down. I suspect it is just the nature of this particular lens. I think you may have to try another lens known to be decently sharp wide open or one stop down before ruling out the lens as the culprit.

Hansen - you are making sense. I also think I'm asking for trouble if I am looking for a sharp shot in soft light - but I know when I know when a shot is out of focus or has camera shake.

In this case, it seems to be a mix of both. Some of these shots have nothing in focus, others are back-focused or front-focused.

Thanks

EC-CIV is a more all purpose screen for the 1D3 cameras, and would probably work fine with 1d2. it's not as steep a parabola of focus as the EC-s however. EC-CIV will be brighter though. If your lenses are all f2.8 or faster you won't notice much if any difference in viewfinder brightness.

no screen affects AF ability since it's all done before the light gets to the screen anyway.

-Ed

Canon certainly doesn't make it easy on us manual focus lens users. I have certainly had a time getting accurate focus on my XSi, XTi, etc., but once I got it right with the focus screens, it is very rewarding. Manual focus lenses require the user to know their camera and its viewfinder, similiar to the rangefinder experience.

I would think there are several culprits to getting that effective shot with a f/1.4 lens. First there would be effective focus, and then fast enough shutter speed to eliminate camera shake or subject movement. On focusing, I always bring focus back, then approach the focal point from near. If I know I am close to a near focus point, I may leave the lens alone and move forward an inch, shoot, then back an inch,shoot, and basically focus bracket.

I won't speak for the absolute sharpness of the MC58/1.4, just yet, as I'm revisiting the mark compared to the MC58/1.2 and MC50/1.4, which all 3 sharpen up nicely when stopped down, but the real character of this lens is in its apparent sharpness. I'm suspecting the extra 8mm gives the edge to a slightly more shallow depth of field, than the 50mm. This makes for a slightly more challenging focal point.

I've gotten a few test shots with the 58mm 1.4 - enough that I'd say I think the lens is certainly sharp ENOUGH wide open (at least in the center). I don't expect it to be tack sharp.

I think it's more down to technique, so I'm gonig to try the focus bracketing and do what I can to get faster shutter speeds.

Thanks

PhotoMaximum wrote:
I went through all this with a 5D, the Takumar 50/1.4 and Rokkor 58/1.2 lenses. I did numerous focus tests and then ordered ten different Canon focus screen shims/washers followed by more tests before installing the right shim/washer that gives me accurate focus at 1.2...

Holy run on sentence Batman...

Ditto on that. I didn't think about shimming the focus screen in my 5D once I had switched it out to the Ee-S. All my landscape shots were fine due to the smaller apertures/greater DOF. The focus issue only came to light when I was shooting the Takumar 50/1.4 and the Rokkor 58/1.2 at wide open or very close to it...very hard to nail the focus, even with high shutter speeds to rule out shake. After shimming, I can now nail the focus on the first shot without the need for focus bracketing.

As far as what size washer/shim is needed, it all depends. I ended up using a #018 since my 5D was backfocusing a little bit. Max (PhotoMaximum) ended up using a #005 if I remember correctly. A good way to check front/back focus is to lay a ruler down, focus on a number marking, and shoot at an angle (preferably on a tripod). If backfocusing, you'll need a thicker shim/washer than what's in your camera; if front focusing, the opposite holds true. First thing though is to switch out your screen, then its a matter of shoot and compare. There are a couple of threads here that I started on this very topic...

EDIT: here's one...
Takumar 50/1.4 focus issues

And another...Shim/Washer results

Thread with Canon Washer part numbers...Washer/Shim Part Numbers

NOTE: The part numbers in the above thread are for the 5D body...I can't say for sure if these washers are compatible with your body. For that, you'd have to call Canon (the parts department phone number is in the thread). If you ask for 'shims', the person on the other end of the line probably won't know what you're talking about. After explaining what I needed, I learned that Canon refers to them as "washer, finder back adjust". Ask for focus screen washers and you'll be good.

TVRguy wrote:
I've gotten a few test shots with the 58mm 1.4 - enough that I'd say I think the lens is certainly sharp ENOUGH wide open (at least in the center). I don't expect it to be tack sharp.

I think it's more down to technique, so I'm gonig to try the focus bracketing and do what I can to get faster shutter speeds.

Thanks


The one I have must be a very poor sample then as it did not sharpen up until about F5.6!

EC-A is the way to go. It doesn't affect AF, but does affect the metering as you cannot use spot reliably.

+1 what Mike says about using the tripod and ruler. Tripod eliminates any camera shake factor and then you can focus bracket to determine how much your viewfinder screen is off and making you front or back focus.
You should also be able to determine in your test shots the plane of focus and see if it is consistently in front or behind what your target was.

well... here is a sample of what I'd call a reasonably sharp shot. I BELIEVE it is "more likely" to front-focus, which may have happened slightly in this shot. Either way, if I could get results like this with people, handheld, I'd be pretty happy.

This was wide open (POSSIBLY F/2 but I"m pretty sure wide open). I took a series starting wide open, this was the first shot. Braced my elbows on the countertop.

Ok - now I"m getting somewhere... :-) These are with available light, wide open at 1.4:

TVRguy wrote:
Ok - now I"m getting somewhere... :-)

You should still give consideration to a focus screen that's more conducive to manual focusing...you'll be able to focus that much quicker (without the macro 'rocking'), and your keeper rate will jump up significantly.

I agree, Mike. I would like to be able to shoot more spontaneously...

So now I've just got to pick the right one :-)

Thanks
-Glenn

It helps to use just one focus point. That way, you know exactly what AF is locking in on.