Kind of a noob question. I don't even know the proper terminology, so I can't find the answer via a search:


What software do you folks typically use to change the orientation of a photo, when the camera wasn't level to the ground? (& what exactly do you CALL this adjustment?)

I've searched Photoshop CS2 and Image Ready, but neither seems to have such an adjustment.

-thanks

I do not recall if this is in CS2 but CS3 has an icon on the top of the RAW screen which looks like a triangle. Select this and draw a line along the horizon . It will then rotate the photo as many degrees as needed to level the horizon.

Thanks, Frank.

-But I can't even find a "raw" screen. I'm trying to edit TIFF files.

I've actually never been able to get CS2, nor Image-Ready, to open my raw files (it doesn't recognize the format, straight from my 5D) so I convert with something else.

In the tools palette in Photoshop, if you place your cursor over the eyedropper (or maybe you have to click on it), the measure tool is accessbile (icon is a ruler). Select this measure tool. Click on a point on the horizon (or a vertical line you want to use as your standard), hold the mouse button down as you move to another point on that line, then release the mouse button. Now you've drawn a line along the horizontal (or vertical) line you want to use to base your rotation on. Now click on "Image" > "rotate canvas" > "arbitrary" then click "ok" and your image will be rotated to make the line you've drawn 'true' to the horizontal (or vertical) axis.

That's it. (rt click on the eyedropper)

Thanks, Russ!

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-I must say, though, that I find this tool pretty barbaric, given Photoshop's long history & high price.

Is this the best they can do? That should only be the starting point. After that initial fix,we should be able to bump the adjustment slightly, by degrees, using clicks. The orientation should be continuously adjustable until the user is happy with the result.

Additionally, we should always see the picture as a rectangle (or at least have that option.) The parts of the original photo that wouldn't end up in the final, due to this orientation adjustment, should not be visible. Seeing black triangle on the top, bottom and sides makes it extremely hard to judge final (artistic) orientation.


Is there any other software that can do what I just described?

Well you can always crop the image after you've rotated/leveled it, and once you have the cropping 'box' created, you can rotate that as much or as little as you want to make the adjustments you speak of. This would solve both your issues.

Or you could actually get the Camera Raw converter working for CS3... that does exactly what you want. It's much more user friendly than the rotate/crop functions in PS...

I agree, it's odd that they didn't just put that tool into PS itself.

In CS3 you've got a Lens Correction filter where you can adjust the horizon pretty easily among other things. It's in Filter -> Distort -> Lens Correction. Don't know if this was a feature in CS2 though.

Yeah... Lens correction! and if he's looking for more sophisticated and interactive rotates then CS4 introduced a whole host of 3D editing tools just for that.

I guess it's time to upgrade.

Hard to believe they wouldn't have this in the very first edition of PS.

A well-connected friend of mine told me that Adobe has enough features already designed, "sitting on the shelf" to release updates through CS8. They just hold-back features in order to ensure a steady stream of update money. I thought that was an absurd rumor, until now.
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BTW- while searching for other options, I bumped into Lensfix CI, by Kekus. It does exactly what I was asking about, (plus other creative orientation adjustments) in exactly the way I was talking about.
It was designed for fixing lens-distortion on raw files, but it also seems to work on TIFFS, and you can just use it for its orientation tools. At $30, it's a much cheaper alternative to a PS update.

Decisions .....

Cableaddict wrote:
I guess it's time to upgrade.

Hard to believe they wouldn't have this in the very first edition of PS.



I generally agree. There's a whole host of options and tools that are missing from PS if we consider it a "paint and processing" application. It's not till you see them in another application and understand their usefulness that one understands just how lacking PS actually is. Yet another case of the masses being controlled by ads and making poor choices as a result. Oh well.

Picasa by Google has a very good "Straightening" tool. Very user friendly, and it's free.

Bifurcator wrote:
Cableaddict wrote:
I guess it's time to upgrade.

Hard to believe they wouldn't have this in the very first edition of PS.



I generally agree. There's a whole host of options and tools that are missing from PS if we consider it a "paint and processing" application. It's not till you see them in another application and understand their usefulness that one understands just how lacking PS actually is. Yet another case of the masses being controlled by ads and making poor choices as a result. Oh well.




It has been a simple matter to rotate images in PS in every version over the last ten years, and Photoshop is still the best PP software out there.

Not to mention that if these few seconds per image are a burden to your workflow, there's always the option of getting it right at the time of capture .

Cableaddict wrote:

Is this the best they can do? That should only be the starting point. After that initial fix,we should be able to bump the adjustment slightly, by degrees, using clicks. The orientation should be continuously adjustable until the user is happy with the result.

Additionally, we should always see the picture as a rectangle (or at least have that option.) The parts of the original photo that wouldn't end up in the final, due to this orientation adjustment, should not be visible. Seeing black triangle on the top, bottom and sides makes it extremely hard to judge final (artistic) orientation.



In photoshop CS3 & CS4 (It's been a while but I'm pretty sure in CS2 as well), you can rotate visually like this:

1. Select | Select All (Ctrl + A on a PC)
2. Edit | Free Transform (Ctrl + T)
3. Click outside the image (cursor becomes a small angle with arrow head at each end).
4. Rotate away.
5. Press enter to apply the transformation when you're happy.

You said you'd like to be able to re-adjust after the initial fix. However you should be aware that any form of image rotation will slightly degrade the image each time it is applied. Try to get it right in one go if possible.

Jim Healey wrote:

However you should be aware that any form of image rotation will slightly degrade the image each time it is applied.



Why is that?

Imagemaster wrote:
Jim Healey wrote:

However you should be aware that any form of image rotation will slightly degrade the image each time it is applied.



Why is that?


Easy to see for yourself.

Draw a simple geometric shape with straight lines just a couple of pixels wide (in Photoshop for example). Then practice rotating at various degrees. Apply each change. You will find that some angular shifts have little or no effect while other angles have a dramatic impact. The effect is cumulative. Try it and see. Here's an example:

I don't see any distortion:

Imagemaster,

Not sure why ... I can easily replicate it.

I'm off to work now (just got out of the shower) ... but will pick this up when I get home and send you a PSD to see if we can work it out. Catch you later

Jim Healey wrote:
In photoshop CS3 & CS4 (It's been a while but I'm pretty sure in CS2 as well), you can rotate visually like this:

1. Select | Select All (Ctrl + A on a PC)
2. Edit | Free Transform (Ctrl + T)
3. Click outside the image (cursor becomes a small angle with arrow head at each end).
4. Rotate away.
5. Press enter to apply the transformation when you're happy.

Jim, it's "command - T." (not cntrl)

-In CS2, this does open the transform funcion. However, it only seems to squeeze the image, vertically or horizontally. There's no way to change the horizon orientation.

Imagemaster wrote:
I don't see any distortion:


I did, when I tried it. Jim is absolutely correct.

Just take any photo, and rotate it to the right 2 degrees, save, rotate back 2 degrees, save, then do it again. After the second pass or so, the degradation starts to become quite apparent.

Wow.


Thanks for the heads-up, Jim!

Cableaddict wrote:
... Jim, it's "command - T." (not cntrl)
I guess you're using a mac then?

Cableaddict wrote:
-In CS2, this does open the transform function. However, it only seems to squeeze the image, vertically or horizontally. There's no way to change the horizon orientation.

What you're describing is the same in CS3 & 4 if you grab one of the little "squares". But if you move the cursor completely outside of the image area it changes shape (small angle with arrow heads) ... and you can rotate the whole image. I can't screen-capture the cursor but this is what the image transformation looks like in CS4:

Imagemaster,

Again ... I have no trouble inducing degradation into an image while rotating. Here's the PSD file I used: link. Just arbitrarily rotate it back and forth and you should see what I mean.

However I must say the effect isn't that noticeable and I only mentioned it in passing. Certainly shouldn't put anyone off straightening their photo's out

Well you're right it does degrade. This should be common sense as your pixels are aligned in straight rows - but I think the greater disservice to the photograph is in some cases anyway, leaving it crooked. I guess if the degradation of rotating it bugs someone too much they can just rotate their monitor.

See! Monitors should be round! I knew it...

Bifurcator wrote:
I guess if the degradation of rotating it bugs someone too much they can just rotate their monitor.



-Or you could just drink more beer. Sort of re-align the receptors.

-That's kind of a win-win.