It's already 3 pages and nobody dared to do it?

I did it..
.worked fine.....

I tried it too... no problem... I do not know if it is an impression, but it is like the time needed by the cam to get out of stand by mode is now reduced...

It seems to work perfectly well, except that I start to think that the hack is not sufficient... it is also possible that some of the 10D features are not mechanically possible: the mirror lock does not seem to work, however, are we sure that the firmware hack is sufficient to allow for a mirror lock, can't it be that some hardware is missing in the 300D to allow for it?

Anyway, with my 1GB CF I can now record 160 RAW pictures rather than the 140 before... just for this the upgrade is worth it :-)

are we sure that the firmware hack is sufficient to allow for a mirror lock, can't it be that some hardware is missing in the 300D to allow for it?

That is exactly the reason why lot of 10D custom functions won't work on the 300D/digital Rebel. Don't expect too much of this kinds of firmware add ons. It would be much more interesting is someone developed firmware with different dataprocessing algorithms which gave different/better image quality, different white balance, or things like that.

Peter

Can you roll back this firmware upgrade? If not, then this is going to affect the resell value of 300D cameras sold on ebay. There are now two classes of 300D, ones with legal firmware/upgrades and those with illegal firmwares. Those cameras that will have to sell cheaper because I doubt very much Canon would ever fix or even touch a camera that has an illegal firmware on it.

Talk about boxing one in the corner, these camera are really throw aways!

Bill

Peter de Weerdt wrote:

It would be much more interesting is someone developed firmware with different dataprocessing algorithms which gave different/better image quality, different white balance, or things like that.

Peter

No-one is going to go to that level of reverse engineering for a camera that will be discontinued in another year or two. I would be willing to bet some serious money that all the patch does is to circumvent a test or a branch in the code that branches around some of the 10D features if it senses that it's running in a DR. After all it's only a 2 byte patch.

Quite possibly there may be other places in the firmware where this same test is done that could also be patched to give access to other 10D features. I have no idea, and less interest.

= Ed =

Edited by Edward Rotberg on Feb 05, 2004 at 03:32 AM GMT

wcbert wrote:
Can you roll back this firmware upgrade? If not, then this is going to affect the resell value of 300D cameras sold on ebay. There are now two classes of 300D, ones with legal firmware/upgrades and those with illegal firmwares. Those cameras that will have to sell cheaper because I doubt very much Canon would ever fix or even touch a camera that has an illegal firmware on it.


If Canon actually provided firmware upgrades that would be a concern. Now it would only be a concern if there is some firmware update for a really annoying bug in the firmware that hasn't been discovered yet...

What you suggest is sorta Canon SDK to develop firmware... why not... the digital cams of the future may become specialized computers (they already are actually...) but with programmable firmware...

Imagine: "Canon 9000D, powered by Linux"...

More seriously, the success of this hack and the upcoming D70 might push canon to release a new firmware with official access to functions such as the RAW+JPG definition.

On the other hand I read that our russian friends are willing to work further and to release new hacks with access to even more hidden functions... If they discover hidden parts of the buffer that will allow burst of 20 RAW... go for it buddy!!!

wcbert wrote:
Can you roll back this firmware upgrade? If not, then this is going to affect the resell value of 300D cameras sold on ebay. There are now two classes of 300D, ones with legal firmware/upgrades and those with illegal firmwares. Those cameras that will have to sell cheaper because I doubt very much Canon would ever fix or even touch a camera that has an illegal firmware on it.

Talk about boxing one in the corner, these camera are really throw aways!

Bill


I have read over at dpreview that those who have tried rolling back to official Canon firmware have been successful.

It seems you have to clear the custom parameters and the take the battery out for a while (or something similar) )after rolling back the firmaware to be completely successful.

(edited for spelling...oops)

So anyone try it??

Hi guys,

Ok, so it is illeagle to hack copyright software.

Hands up all those happily using their hacked copy of Adobe ACR (the first version) with their Canon 10D.

At the moment Canon firmware is user-updatable, so I suspect that it would be difficult to stop you loading whatever version you like?

It may be much more difficult than what is being discussed here but, imagine for a moment, what if someone came up with a version of firmware which wrote the RAW files in an industry standard format instead of a proprietary one.

Some sort of TIFF or a Photoshop PSD format perhaps.

Would that be useful, I wonder?

Imagine being able to open up a PSD file directly in Photoshop without having to resort to extra software. (Ok, that would make it proprietary but I hope you see my point)

If someone mananged to do this for Canons and Nikons etc, imagine the advantage of using a single common RAW format, like JPEG for the processed pictures.

Yes, I'm sure people will say the information is going to be substantially different. But when all is said and done, it is only a block of data with a description of how to use it.

Being able to add new artistic functions could be another possibility to this.

Regards
Nigel

nanscombe wrote:

It may be much more difficult than what is being discussed here but, imagine for a moment, what if someone came up with a version of firmware which wrote the RAW files in an industry standard format instead of a proprietary one.

Some sort of TIFF or a Photoshop PSD format perhaps.

Would that be useful, I wonder?


Depends on a couple of factors. One of which is whether or not the CPU processing power exists in the camera. I would guess a lot of the camera functionality is done in hardware, which means that there might not be a need for a lot of processing power at all, and anything involving the processor might be dog slow.

So while it might be useful, it would probably be as useful as having a software package on your computer that understands all these formats...

Wait...we already do.....

Hi Geir,

What I was trying to get at was, that if the file format was the same, you wouldn't need different RAW processing software for D60's, 10D's, 1DII, NEFFs etc.

And a few years down the track you may not have DVD's full of proprietary RAW files and nothing to read them with.

Regards
Nigel

I upgraded my 1D to the 1.4.0 firmware when it first became availble. Unsatisfied with the results, I "downgraded" back to the 1.3.0 firmware. It worked just fine. Since then, I have gone back up to 1.4.0. If it's possible to "downgrade" the firmware on the 1D, I would imagine it's the same for all these cameras. It'll just load the firmware you give it... new or old.

nanscombe wrote:
Hi Geir,

What I was trying to get at was, that if the file format was the same, you wouldn't need different RAW processing software for D60's, 10D's, 1DII, NEFFs etc.

And a few years down the track you may not have DVD's full of proprietary RAW files and nothing to read them with.


But we already have software that deals with D60s, 10D, and all these nice things...

What you are looking for would take an act of cooperation between the manufacturers of these cameras to agree on a common format. Hacking to get that to work probably won't get you too far...

ChrisGVE wroteit is also possible that some of the 10D features are not mechanically possible: the mirror lock does not seem to work, however, are we sure that the firmware hack is sufficient to allow for a mirror lock, can't it be that some hardware is missing in the 300D to allow for it?



you know what?

I think its possible to get mirror lock on the 300d since it obviously has the mechanical parts needed to lock the mirror up (sensor clean)

-Kelvin

kelvinz wrote:
smaug wrote:
I just want to know how a 300D is going to work "just like a 10D" without the same controls? What? No thumbwheel? So.. wait... I don't get it.

again, apparently it opens up the custom functions menu that the 10d has.

Normally the 300d is missing that menu.

-Kelvin

Kelvin,

What I was driving at is that some bright boy is probably going to have to re-write the firmware to accept input from a different set of controls. Since the 300D isn't wired the same, different buttons, no thumbwheel, etc. just turning on the functions won't necessarily let you control them.

-Steve

smaug wrote:
kelvinz wrote:
smaug wrote:
I just want to know how a 300D is going to work "just like a 10D" without the same controls? What? No thumbwheel? So.. wait... I don't get it.

again, apparently it opens up the custom functions menu that the 10d has.

Normally the 300d is missing that menu.

-Kelvin

Kelvin,

What I was driving at is that some bright boy is probably going to have to re-write the firmware to accept input from a different set of controls. Since the 300D isn't wired the same, different buttons, no thumbwheel, etc. just turning on the functions won't necessarily let you control them.

-Steve


Ah ic what you're getting at, but the thumbwheel dosen't provide any extra functing the 300d dosen't have.

The thumbwheel's only use that the 300d can't use seems to be set white ballance by kelvin's.

But I agree its only a matter of time till they figure out how to make the rest of the 10d custom fucnctions menu work on the 300d.

-Kelvin

kelvinz wrote:

Ah ic what you're getting at, but the thumbwheel dosen't provide any extra functing the 300d dosen't have.

The thumbwheel's only use that the 300d can't use seems to be set white ballance by kelvin's.

But I agree its only a matter of time till they figure out how to make the rest of the 10d custom fucnctions menu work on the 300d.

-Kelvin


I'm wondering though if all the firmware to actually perform the functions is in place, or if it was left out of the code... You might be able to enable functions that have no implementation present in the code...

You may be right with this... and as I said before, do we have the "hardware implementation" to actually have all these features to work...

Now, if everything is a matter of porting the code from the 10D to the 300D... it could mean that within both the 10D and the 300D we have much more computing power than we thought... it reminds me a bit of the old Voyager probes sent by NASA: until they got to destination they got many huge improvements...

Now think about the commercial situation of Canon: the pro will soon be served by the 1D2... but Nikon is coming with the D70... does Canon has a new cam to compete with the D70: sure, but they are likely to wait until Photokina or PMA 2005... meanwhile, do they want to see their comparative advantage with the 10/300D melting? Certainly not...

Solution: issuing a new firmware for the 10D and the 300D... the 300D will become a "10D" (some will object: yes, but made of plastic) and the 10D a "super 10D" (maybe a software boost of the ISO sensitivity from 50 to 6400).

Sorry to go slightly off subject...

ChrisGVE wrote:

Solution: issuing a new firmware for the 10D and the 300D... the 300D will become a "10D" (some will object: yes, but made of plastic) and the 10D a "super 10D" (maybe a software boost of the ISO sensitivity from 50 to 6400).

Sorry to go slightly off subject...


I think what's more likely is just big price reductions in the 10D & 300D, but we'll see.

bouch wrote:
ChrisGVE wrote:

Solution: issuing a new firmware for the 10D and the 300D... the 300D will become a "10D" (some will object: yes, but made of plastic) and the 10D a "super 10D" (maybe a software boost of the ISO sensitivity from 50 to 6400).

Sorry to go slightly off subject...


I think what's more likely is just big price reductions in the 10D & 300D, but we'll see.


I agree price reduction on both cameras and probably a new camera annonced sometime this year.