It's very dangerous to start personally attacking someone because you checked out when they registered and how many posts they have and then make some judgment on that.

dangerous?

OK, here's one more post for me.

Now what?

BTW, I like my 5D and I'm not planning on dumping it for a MK II any time soon (unless I get a shoot that requires another 5D body). I'll probably hold out for the 5D MK III (although I'll probably have well over 100,000 activations by then). Right now, I'd rather spend the money on a bit of glass.

Stunnaz wrote:
dangerous?

I'm not sure why that would cause confussion. Be nice people.

My point is some guys are spending 4-5 hours each day dreaming about "perfect DSLR" without knowing if some feature that is not appear in a new camera is realy helpful for him,and you know why?,because they forgut to do what any photographer should do:taken pictures for him and for others.For me ,the original 5D is more than enouth,but in the meantime some others are saying that is an absolite camera,that is no more good for them.Really?

Cableaddict wrote:
Hey, why not?

I refuse to believe that the anemic, incremental 5DII is going to be Canon's only new offering this year. Clearly it is aimed at Rebel owners, not current 5D owners, nor 1-series owners looking for a backup.

Where's the camera for us?

Are they really going to have a product line that jumps from $2700 to $8K? Makes no sense.

I predict something will be shown, either at Photokina, or within a few months, in the $3500 range. (witin reach of the D700 market, but costly enough to be able to decimate it.

One can dream, so here I go:

Better AF, of course.
No embarrassing "print" button.
Articulating LCD
Completely programmable menu screen.
Gapless photosites, for higher ISO without sharpness loss.
Silent mode
Better shutter, with perhaps 5 fps.
Either significantly better video, or no video at all.

Still no built-in grip (for those that want compact.)
Still no dual data cards. (something has to differentiate the top-end pro camera)
----------------------------------------

Your turn.


Yeah, a 3000$ camera (well 2700$) is aimed at rebel owners.

....

......
.........

Yeah, a 3D! That seems really plausible. Hopefully then they'll get a 1D in the next generation and we can start all over. YAY!

nikt wrote:
It's very dangerous to start personally attacking someone because you checked out when they registered and how many posts they have and then make some judgment on that.


That's right Iceman, I am dangerous. It actually doesn't take much investigating to find this information. If the info is not there to be used for making some sort of judgement, why then exactly is it there? I think the term "attacking" is a bit extreme, maybe even dangerous.

rhtml wrote:
By the way, if the video mode is so exciting, why not put it into the more expensive 1Ds III? Just wait and see what happens when the 1D(s) IV comes out. If there is no video mode in it, then obviously the 5D is just a cheap guinea pig in Canon's eyes.


So what if it is? It's been standard Canon practice to introduce new features like this in non-top-end models and then decide whether to move it up to 1-series.
The original version of the 45-point AF system was introduced in the EOS 3, and it was 18 months later that it made it up to the EOS 1v. The eye-controlled focus had been provided in the mid-range EOS 5E, then EOS 50E, then EOS 3, but never made it up to the 1-series (in fact it's disappeared altogether - maybe they decided it didn't mix well enough with the 45-point AF).

The 5DmkII is just that: an updated version of the 5D. I'm sure there are many 5D users who will be happy staying with the original, and maybe it is going to entice "Rebel users" up to the 5D family, but the bottom line is that Canon is going to sell lots of them. It is an upgrade to the 5D, just not the exact set of features that some voluble people apparently wish for.
There will be new FF cameras from Canon. The 1Ds4 (or whatever the exact name will be) will arrive at some point, they've indicated they're going to produce "Rebel" FF bodies at some point (personally I consider the 5D family to be the FF equivalents of the xxD family, not the xxxD family at the moment) and you can be assured that Canon will introduce another non-1-series FF body with better AF, fps, X-sync, etc than the 5DmkII. We just don't know when (or exactly what it'll be called). And in the end does it matter much? Canon (and Nikon) have nice cameras now. Get one (or pick up the one you have already), take it out into the world, and use it to create the best work you can!

As for why Nikon sells the D700 for significantly less than the D3 with most of the features ("doesn't that ruin the D3 market?") it doesn't take much to work out what's going on. I'm just pulling these specific numbers out of the air, but if for example Nikon's profit on each D3 was only twice that on each D700, they would only have to sell twice as many D700s to make the same money. I'm guessing they're going to sell WAY more than twice as many D700s! Even if the difference in profit was 10x, I'm sure Nikon will be ahead. And those people who need the extra features of the D3 will get one of those anyway.

The next 1 series will have HD video for certain.

DavidB wrote:
As for why Nikon sells the D700 for significantly less than the D3 with most of the features ("doesn't that ruin the D3 market?") it doesn't take much to work out what's going on. I'm just pulling these specific numbers out of the air, but if for example Nikon's profit on each D3 was only twice that on each D700, they would only have to sell twice as many D700s to make the same money. I'm guessing they're going to sell WAY more than twice as many D700s! Even if the difference in profit was 10x, I'm sure Nikon will be ahead. And those people who need the extra features of the D3 will get one of those anyway.

One thing that strikes me about Nikon in general, is that they seem to share parts between models quite frequently. With the D700 and D3, they are again quite similar, which would again allow them to enjoy economies of scale, especially with their sensor. So any additional D700 sales they make, reduces the costs of their D3s, increasing their D3 profits.

Cableaddict wrote:
Or perhaps you currently own a Rebel.

The kiddies should stay off this thread. The 3D will not be for them, anyway.


When you open a thread and then proceed to trash users of certain gear and tell them to stay out of the discussion... well, you aren't going to endear people to whatever point you were trying to make. You just come off as a jerk. An "adult" non-Rebel user shouldn't need a lesson in manners, but there you go.

Forget the 3D, I'm holding out for the 0D!

BigJoe wrote:
Cableaddict wrote:
Or perhaps you currently own a Rebel.

The kiddies should stay off this thread. The 3D will not be for them, anyway.


When you open a thread and then proceed to trash users of certain gear and tell them to stay out of the discussion... well, you aren't going to endear people to whatever point you were trying to make. You just come off as a jerk. An "adult" non-Rebel user shouldn't need a lesson in manners, but there you go.

Wouldn't have to, if idiots who can't even understand the point being made wouldn't post knee-jerk responses.

Oh well, can't help everyone. I stand by my statement.

I can understand the desire for a "3D" type offering, but also the potential concerns about cannibalizing 1Ds sales.

I think to address these concerns, and some pretty obvious competitive pressures from Nikon and Sony, Canon needs to revamp the 1D series of cameras. They should produce a 3D type camera (no integrated grip), and new highly functional grip to turn the camera into a 1D type camera (higher speed, etc). Price the 3D at around $5K, and the new grip at around $1K. The days of an $8K 1Ds-type camera are probably gone. Revamping the lead camera into a more modular system will meet the needs of both 1Ds buyers and potential 3D buyers -- and it will help them competitively.

Cableaddict wrote:You evidently have not been reading the various 5DII threads. Perhaps you missed the vast majority of negative posts, from the incredble number of people (mostly 5D and 1-series owners) who are dissapointed in this offering.

Where have you been for the last 7 years? Every time Canon introduces and new camera there is an overwhelmingly negative response. "I'm not upgrading", we all say. But then, hypnotized my some in some mystic DSLR spell, we all buy it, complain about the auto focus, and start speculating about the next model.

fact is Canon as dug themself a nice little "pit of doom" where if they do make a 3D or w/e u wanna call it, it would affect their top end sales.

I like it! Great post, love the 5D crowd reaction
Seriously, a D700 style light travel camera would be cool, and I would buy one in a heartbeat. Judging from all the serious sounding rumors I've read, the AF system is the hangup right now: Canon is trying to design a new one, but needs to be real careful, to avoid another PR disaster. Personally, I'd take ~ 15 AF points spread out WIDE, no need for 45, or 51, especially when they're clustered so close that I need glasses to separate them (kidding!). I don't think flash control would be the big thing for this camera, as flash typically implies studio, setup and weight not being an issue. High ISO would be important, and DR, as this camera would generally be used in an unstaged scenario, with no control over lighting. Video might be okay, if it doesn't distrac from other stuff. Weather sealing is important, as it tends to rain sometimes when one is outdoors...

I still like that these 3D harpers want Canon to give them the best of all the worlds of their 5 camera familes, for a 3rd tier price.
Do you understand marketing / business at all? All the money they spend on research must be recouped with sales of the 1D/s line. Their main business is paid for by Rebels, the rest - by pros and the 1D/s cameras.
If they had a 3D like you said, it would compete directly with the 1D families and cut into their TOP line. They would be marketing their "best" Camera to the SMALLEST market.. Sure, the 5D is Cheaper, but its also the lowest Unit seller...

Nikon may be doing this because they need something to get them back into the camera bags of Pro's and we wont see a D800 for 5 years or ever..

kodakeos wrote:
I still like that these 3D harpers want Canon to give them the best of all the worlds of their 5 camera familes, for a 3rd tier price.
Do you understand marketing / business at all? All the money they spend on research must be recouped with sales of the 1D/s line. Their main business is paid for by Rebels, the rest - by pros and the 1D/s cameras.
If they had a 3D like you said, it would compete directly with the 1D families and cut into their TOP line. They would be marketing their "best" Camera to the SMALLEST market.. Sure, the 5D is Cheaper, but its also the lowest Unit seller...

Nikon may be doing this because they need something to get them back into the camera bags of Pro's and we wont see a D800 for 5 years or ever..


with dismay

Raspberry,
J

"anemic, incremental 5DII"

Idiot!

Marcus Watts wrote:
"anemic, incremental 5DII"

Idiot!

Exactly my thoughts ! (: