Ralph Conway wrote:
Nobody seems to be unhappy with the 1Ds MK III.

Ralph, with all due respect, you clearly haven't been keeping up. It's only one of several reports of quirky AF issues, quite similar to issues with the "D" version.

Edited by Jeff on Sep 05, 2008 at 04:14 PM GMT

rumours are like romances. they keep things alive.
be warned though that the specs for the new canon FF may be disappointing for those expect too much. the price will be suprisingly low, setting a new trend for the FF market.

If they bring out a camera like the one stated above (21 Mp, 19 AF points, full weather sealing) it stands to reason a 1Ds 4 is on its way sooner rather than later. I mean, who'd buy a 1Ds while a camera with more or less the same specs and half the price is out?

Somehow I find that hard to believe; a 1D4 would be first in line I'd think, before a 1Ds4. Plus, Canon has proven to be quite conservative. Going with stated solution would be too drastic to contemplate... even though it would make me one happy camper.

RGS65 wrote:
Tom K. wrote:
Specs for the 5D II are here: http://gizmodo.com/5043240/unconfirmed-more-canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-specs-leak-lookin-good


* 21.1 MP 1.0x
* DIGIC IV
* ISO 100-6400 L:50 & H:12800
* 5 FPS
* 3.2" High Resolution Screen (LCD)
* 19 point AF
* HDMI Out
* Liveview
* HD Movie Mode
* Viewfinder: 100% Coverage
* Full weather sealing
* EF Lenses only

If these specs. hold up you can put me down for two of these babies on the spot. I would not mind a lower ress if that would give less noise.

Emile Gregoire wrote:
Somehow I find that hard to believe; a 1D4 would be first in line I'd think, before a 1Ds4. Plus, Canon has proven to be quite conservative. Going with stated solution would be too drastic to contemplate... even though it would make me one happy camper.

True. But just imagine a 1D4 @ PMA, with a unified body - say 30MP and a 1.3x "high speed crop mode" @ 10 fps. I am obviously pulling these numbers out of my behind, but you get the idea. It's not totally out of the question that a 1D4 would come at PMA - this whole 3-year cycle is a myth based on one release cycle. I can just as well make an argument for a 2-year cycle based on one release cycle. Given the whole 1D3 fiasco, and the overall need for Canon to make up for things, cluster bombing the market with a $3k 5D2 as specced out above, followed with a 1D4 four months later, would not be the stupidest thing, even if it were to kill the 1Ds3 sales (not to mention resale value, I giggle nervously).

Now I doubt that the specs are true, rather "just in the hood", which still would make for a good camera.

Edited by stanj on Aug 28, 2008 at 11:23 PM GMT

Emile Gregoire wrote:
If they bring out a camera like the one stated above (21 Mp, 19 AF points, full weather sealing) it stands to reason a 1Ds 4 is on its way sooner rather than later. I mean, who'd buy a 1Ds while a camera with more or less the same specs and half the price is out?

Somehow I find that hard to believe; a 1D4 would be first in line I'd think, before a 1Ds4. Plus, Canon has proven to be quite conservative. Going with stated solution would be too drastic to contemplate... even though it would make me one happy camper.

replace 1Ds with "D3" and "5DII" with "D700" and you have an example in real life that is apparently working quite well for Nikon

cineski wrote:
I wouldn't put it past them. 50d has 1/250th flash sync, 1Ds3 has 1/250th sync, 5d has 1/200th sync (1/180th with pocketwizards). BTW: There's NO WAY the new 5d will be $1500.



yes, but the 5D is all about IQ so it wouldn't make sense that its successor would make sacrifices compared to lower models.

by the way, my 5d actually syncs @ 1/200 with PW's so mileage on this may vary...

The d700 trumps the d2x/s-es in most possible ways does it not?

Stan, Andy - you're both right of course but seeing Canon's history I'd be highly surprised if all of a sudden they'd pull something like that out of their hat. It would be really out of the ordinary, but, as said, I'd be a happy camper: put me down for both a 5D2 and a 1D4 with all the specs mentioned. Nothing is impossible.

Off to have some EOSfun

Emile Gregoire wrote:
If they bring out a camera like the one stated above (21 Mp, 19 AF points, full weather sealing) it stands to reason a 1Ds 4 is on its way sooner rather than later. I mean, who'd buy a 1Ds while a camera with more or less the same specs and half the price is out?

Somehow I find that hard to believe; a 1D4 would be first in line I'd think, before a 1Ds4. Plus, Canon has proven to be quite conservative. Going with stated solution would be too drastic to contemplate... even though it would make me one happy camper.

That makes sense to me and given that numerous pros have moved to the D3 I am sure Canon will want to come out with something pretty spectacular as a 1D3 replacement.

I would imagine that the look and feel of the current 1D3 body would be kept and the 5D replacement would probably follow a similar design, thus making the 5D replacement a very attractive, lighter 2nd/backup body. That would be an ideal solution for me and I suspect, many others.

stanj wrote:
Emile Gregoire wrote:
Somehow I find that hard to believe; a 1D4 would be first in line I'd think, before a 1Ds4. Plus, Canon has proven to be quite conservative. Going with stated solution would be too drastic to contemplate... even though it would make me one happy camper.

True. But just imagine a 1D4 @ PMA, with a unified body - say 30MP and a 1.3x "high speed crop mode" @ 10 fps. I am obviously pulling these numbers out of my behind, but you get the idea.

That's actually what I was expecting the Mark III to be last year, but at around 20MP with a high speed crop mode, though in hindsight, it was too early for that to happen due to lack of competition. Thanks to the D3 and D700 bringing FF competition with downward price pressure and the soon to be announced Sony FF that will probably sell for around the D700's initial price, it might be about the only way for Canon to justify and maintain a $5K+ price point. If it's much higher than that though, it will be a tough sell for the phojo/sports guys where the Mark III is now $4100, unless the Mark III remains available to fill the $4K price point. A unified Mark IV at a hight price point might actually encourage a lot of D3 users to stay put due to the expensive prospect of switching (yet again for many). And the reality in the news/sports world is that 12MP is more than enough.

I don't think those 5DII specs are all that outrageous. Sure, compared to the D700 the resolution difference is extreme at that price point. But I don't believe the D700 is all that relevant, rather it's the Sony FF. As cool as the D700 is, it might soon appear quite antiquated against ~20MP competition. 12MP was a big deal in 2002 (OK, the 1Ds was 11MP, close enough) or even 2005 with the 5D...

Ron

As I wrote in another thread, Canon Europe do push hard for the 1Ds3 in their newsletter, but I could not see a single reference to the 1D3!
Go figure.....

Although 12 megapixels is more than enough for most applications i think that if Canon make the 5D 20+ megapixel and up the megapixels for the d series then they will maintain a strong lead over Nikon for that reason alone.

Pure speculation then on my part.

5D2 = 24 Megapixels
1D4 = 15 Megapixels
1ds4 = 30 Megapixels.

After which Canon will then have to turn their attention to feature upgrades for future releases.

Jeff wrote:
Ralph Conway wrote:
Nobody seems to be unhappy with the 1Ds MK III.

Ralph, with all due respect, you clearly haven't been keeping up. It's only one of several reports of quirky AF issues, quite similar to issues with the "D" version.

The link leeds me to a "our child"- thread. But thank you for updating me. Maybe I did not get it because many 1Ds MK III owners use their cameras different from sports/j.

Marcus Watts wrote:
5D2 = 24 Megapixels
1D4 = 15 Megapixels
1ds4 = 30 Megapixels.

Please stop this madness! 1Ds mkIII and 1D mkIII JUST CAME OUT! There's a cycle of 2-3 years in which canon refined it's professional models!

Model Announced (and released)
EOS-1D Sep 2001
EOS-1Ds Sep 2002
EOS-1D Mark II Jan 2004
EOS-1Ds Mark II Sep 2004
EOS-1D Mark II N Aug 2005
EOS-1D Mark III Feb 2007
EOS-1Ds Mark III Aug 2007

Did you watch a calendar lately? it's 2008! I am 60% sure Canon will release a 1D mk III N, but by no means will there be a mk IV.
AND NO, THEY WILL NOT HAVE THAT MANY MEGAPIXELS! (mkIII N might have 15mp, but 24 and 30 mpixels don't justify themselves unless you use Schneider, Sinar, Leica, best Zeiss (i mean top quality limited edition red T *, not usual zeiss) lenses... which very very few people do).
5D mkII will have 18, definetly not over 20! if it has over 20 mpixels and 5 fps then there's no reason to buy the 1Ds apart from the very robust body and design.
Although it better have 5 fps, cause i won't buy it with 3...

Flav - pretty much all Zeiss lenses have the red T*. Even my lowly $115 50 f/1.7 (though I'd say this qualifies...it's the sharpest thing I've ever put on a camera, though the bokeh is less than stellar.)

Jman, an 85mm or a very luminous 50 is too much of a hassle to focus. I don't mean all T*, and these cameras ar targeted at professionals - that doesn't mean people that take very good images, but people that use these cameras in rendering services... like photojournalists, wedding photographers. AF is a very important thing, and if you read MTF's of the new L lenses, they're not so great, specially in the corners.
And of course, the most important are the wide lenses, which cost alot more, if you want very high IQ.

thus 30mpixels aren't very useful, if your lens doesn't perform very well. Nikon has a very good reason to keep sensors at 12 mpixels...

Why is it these Romanians (Gabimaster, Flav) are so insistent that we listen and accept their point of view just because they say it insistently and shout? Is it a national thing?

_WHAT_ wrote:
* 21.1 MP 1.0x
If these specs. hold up you can put me down for two of these babies on the spot. I would not mind a lower ress if that would give less noise.

It wouldn't. Noise is practically independent of pixel density.

Marcus Watts wrote:
5D2 = 24 Megapixels
1D4 = 15 Megapixels
1ds4 = 30 Megapixels.


Flav wrote:
Please stop this madness! 1Ds mkIII and 1D mkIII JUST CAME OUT! There's a cycle of 2-3 years in which canon refined it's professional models!
[...]


Flav, if you don't like what you read there is no need to post.

Besides, the 1D Mark 3 was announced in Feb '07 and first bodies came out end of May, beginning of June, so pretty much 1 1/2 years for the 1D3 doesn't really equate to 'just came out'.

Given the success of the Nikon D3 in the sports/pj market I would think it very logical that Canon don't wait 3 years before replacing it or they will risk losing market share since brand changes at this level of manufacturer investment don't happen easily, even more so given the attitude towards the 1D3 and AF.

Flav wrote:
[...]
Did you watch a calendar lately? it's 2008! I am 60% sure Canon will release a 1D mk III N, but by no means will there be a mk IV.
AND NO, THEY WILL NOT HAVE THAT MANY MEGAPIXELS! (mkIII N might have 15mp, but 24 and 30 mpixels don't justify themselves unless you use Schneider, Sinar, Leica, best Zeiss (i mean top quality limited edition red T *, not usual zeiss) lenses... which very very few people do).

I strongly doubt Canon will release a 1D3N. Although there has been only one instance of this happening in the 1D series, look at the 1D2 and N. The N was a body revision, not a sensor revision.

Flav wrote:
5D mkII will have 18, definetly not over 20! if it has over 20 mpixels and 5 fps then there's no reason to buy the 1Ds apart from the very robust body and design.


Although this is a rumour thread, no one can say that in such a sure way. Perhaps the 1Ds3 sensor was always destined for the 5D replacement and Canon are working on a new high MP sensor for the 1Ds3 replacement, who knows!

Flav, I use Canon, Zeiss, Olympus, Minolta and Leica lenses on 5D and 1Ds3 to shoot all kinds of event including weddings. AF is not essential; viewfinder focussing works well. Liveview is also great for really accurate manual focussing at f1.2. All West German Zeiss lenses have the T* coating, and some of the cheapest are some of the best. Canon makes exceptionally good telephotos which are as good as or better than anything else available. For instance, in terms of image quality I prefer the 200 f1.8 L to Leica's 180 f2. The 85's, 135L, 200 f2.8L, 300 f2.8, and longer tele's all speak for themselves. Many of these lenses resolve more than enough detail to satisfy a 21 megapixel sensor. Gapless micro-lenses mean there is practically no penalty due to higher pixel densities, so 38 megapixel seems to me to be quite feasible. Nikon's 14-24 might be very revealing on such a sensor. In short, I dispute almost everything you say, based on my experience.

@ Alistair:

Me! :-)
Canon will open that 5d segment to 2 cams to choose!
And of course there will be a change in 1Ds next spring, too.
10MP is overcome and Canon will set a new FF highres standard next to that. I just talked to a friend in the sales business who mentioned the AF-problems seem to be fixed now at least. But the image loose of that high end stuff is not reparable.

50D = 15MP
5D IIs => will get 18 MP/21MP
1D MK IV will get 15 MP
and 1Ds MK IV will have double again

Ralph

Launching a mk IV would be very costly for Canon and it will be like a slap in the face for whoever payed 8000$ for a 1Ds mkIII this or last year. 1Ds prices would drop like a stone.
Beni wrote:
Why is it these Romanians (Gabimaster, Flav) are so insistent that we listen and accept their point of view just because they say it insistently and shout? Is it a national thing?
Dunno.. maybe.. sorry for being so insistent. Though the speculations i replied to were absurd imho.
This is a debate, because we can only speculate, why not try to be more accurate?
It seems highly unlikely that the 5D successor has 24 mpixels, but i won't mind if it does, but also i wouldn't like to pay 500$ extra because it has so many megapixels which i don't need...

Flav wrote:
.....
Please stop this madness! 1Ds mkIII and 1D mkIII JUST CAME OUT! There's a cycle of 2-3 years in which canon refined it's professional models!
......

Did you watch a calendar lately? it's 2008! I am 60% sure Canon will release a 1D mk III N, but by no means will there be a mk IV.
AND NO, THEY WILL NOT HAVE THAT MANY MEGAPIXELS! (mkIII N might have 15mp, but 24 and 30 mpixels don't justify themselves unless you use Schneider, Sinar, Leica, best Zeiss (i mean top quality limited edition red T *, not usual zeiss) lenses... which very very few people do).
5D mkII will have 18, definetly not over 20! if it has over 20 mpixels and 5 fps then there's no reason to buy the 1Ds apart from the very robust body and design.
Although it better have 5 fps, cause i won't buy it with 3...

I think you're going to be chagrined to discover the 1 series gets trashed in the next 6 months (by PMA - Feb 2009), and I for one say good riddance. Those cameras can't go away soon enough and I'll help throw them out. Apologies to all the 1Ds owners, I know you enjoy your camera(s),but after my 1d3 issues I just couldn't make myself spend the 1ds money even if I can write it off.

The longer Canon persists with these models (the 1D/1Ds Mark III's) the longer they have to deal with doubts and negative publicity. I'll be back on the 1 series band wagon as soon as Canon produces something worth buying. I hope/think that's by PMA, but in the meantime, if the new Gizmodo 5d2 "rumor" is true, I'll buy a couple while I wait for a new 1D/1Ds.

I expected a FF sensor in a 50d body and I wasn't impressed, but if they've broken that mold and will be making a complete (or nearly complete) professional level camera in a 5d sized body, I'll support Canon's decisions with my dollars. The 19 point looks like the only weak spot, but if it has 5 FPS, only one CF slot, a 100% VF, I'm on board. I'll be praising Canon if they can do that. If they don't, I won't be buying......


Edited by jamesf99 on Aug 29, 2008 at 07:30 AM GMT