surfnron wrote:
This reminds me of the Russian weight lifter from the sixties - he was constantly breaking his own records by 1 kilogram. That's because he got a bonus from his govt. every time he broke a record. Camera companies are the same way. Incremental improvements keep the $$ coming in. I don't understand why anyone would expect a revolutionary camera instead of an evolutionary camera every time an updated model is introduced.
Same thing with wanting M III specs on an XXD model. They have to keep some separation of specs so that people will buy the more expensive cameras.
Ron

What Russian weightlifter was that by the way. I used to compete in the sport.

Was it Alexeiev ?

Ulan wrote:
Was it Alexeiev ?
Probably. It could have also been: David Rigert.

Yes, I believe it was Alexeyev...

I hope Ulan and Ira are right because I don't remember his name, but I do remember that he was a heavyweight. If I remember correctly, he was one of the few in the USSR to drive a Mercedes at that time ~ Ron

BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!BlaH!

Just a couple of quick questions about the 40D vs the 50D:

For a print size of 8"x12", with same lens, same ISO and subject:

- Does the 50D has more or less noise?

- At f/8 (above the 50D's theoretical diffraction limiting aperture, but below the 40D's) is the 40D or 50D sharper?

It seems many comparisons are made at the pixel level (noise, sharpness etc). I just want to clarify whether the 50D is the same or better than the 40D at the same print size.

Thanks

vontom wrote:
Just a couple of quick questions about the 40D vs the 50D:

For a print size of 8"x12", with same lens, same ISO and subject:

- Does the 50D has more or less noise?

- At f/8 (above the 50D's theoretical diffraction limiting aperture, but below the 40D's) is the 40D or 50D sharper?

It seems many comparisons are made at the pixel level (noise, sharpness etc). I just want to clarify whether the 50D is the same or better than the 40D at the same print size.

Thanks

I own the 50D and owned the 40D until I sold it this AM. Also own 5DII.

Prints will look the same. At f/8+, you won't see any difference from diffraction because the basic nature of the files look different and are processed differently.

The 40D is the best bargain out there. 50D brings in AF micro adjustment, nice screen and new user interface on screen. Also, new menu system. I like these items because the 50D screen and layout is identical to my 5DII. Same with menus. This makes using both cameras much easier. If you are just using one camera, then these items may be of smaller value. Depending on the number of lenses you own, the AF micro adjust may be important. It is for me.

surfnron wrote:
This reminds me of the Russian weight lifter from the sixties - he was constantly breaking his own records by 1 kilogram. That's because he got a bonus from his govt. every time he broke a record. Camera companies are the same way. Incremental improvements keep the $$ coming in. I don't understand why anyone would expect a revolutionary camera instead of an evolutionary camera every time an updated model is introduced.
Same thing with wanting M III specs on an XXD model. They have to keep some separation of specs so that people will buy the more expensive cameras.
Ron

This is exactly why I waited until the 40D's got cheap to move up from my 10D.

UCSB wrote:

The 40D is the best bargain out there. 50D brings in AF micro adjustment, nice screen and new user interface on screen. Also, new menu system. I like these items because the 50D screen and layout is identical to my 5DII. Same with menus. This makes using both cameras much easier. If you are just using one camera, then these items may be of smaller value. Depending on the number of lenses you own, the AF micro adjust may be important. It is for me.



I would have to echo that.
While I would have liked the better LCD, a bit of AF, etc,
the images are not that much better.
For the landscape stuff I am doing, a lower diffraction limit is not a plus.
I am quite happy with the results from my 40D.
While I am sure the 50D is a great camera,
I think I will wait for some more revenue before I get a FF.
Basically going to keep looking for one of the following
1. 1DsMkII bargain
2. A "so cheap I can't pass it up" 5D
3. 5DmKII when I upgrade my computer to handle the file sizes

Dan

Very good reading:
Bob Atkins on 50D

citro wrote:
Very good reading:
Bob Atkins on 50D


Here Here! +1

Why would Canon make the 50D with the AF/On third button but not for the grip? They should have made the 3rd button for the grip or left it alone for back button focusing.

John P Mulgrew wrote:
Why would Canon make the 50D with the AF/On third button but not for the grip? They should have made the 3rd button for the grip or left it alone for back button focusing.

They do allow you to switch the * and AF ON buttons ... this would allow you to use AF ON on the grip. But, I agree the grip should have all three buttons.

Oh they do? I don't have the camera or manual here but will look at it the next time I have it, thank you.

That's how I have it set up. * swapped with the stupid AF-On button (which I dislike). Then, it's * to AF on the grip also. What bums me out, is that when I review an image for sharpness, I zoom in using + and then press * to zoom out. But of course * and AF-On are swapped in ALL functions so I don't zoom out, but end up exiting the review screen. And on the grip there is NO zoom out. Not essential, but annoying. AF-On was never neccessary and is less well placed for my hands than *.

Probably my big gripe about the 50D!

tonyhart wrote:
That's how I have it set up. * swapped with the stupid AF-On button (which I dislike). Then, it's * to AF on the grip also. What bums me out, is that when I review an image for sharpness, I zoom in using + and then press * to zoom out. But of course * and AF-On are swapped in ALL functions so I don't zoom out, but end up exiting the review screen. And on the grip there is NO zoom out. Not essential, but annoying. AF-On was never neccessary and is less well placed for my hands than *.

Probably my big gripe about the 50D!

The play button can bring you back to reviewing screen if you do not want to exist reviewing after zooming in for sharpness check and you can continue to review the next shot

I keep hearing the images are not as good as can be, except with very good len's, how good do they mean? and also several reviews have stated considerable Noise after 1600 ISO, does anyone have experience with that issue.

Thanks Kal

well, today I got my first ever Xmas bonus! My 50D has been ordered and my XT will finally be laid to rest. Im sooo excited!

Kalifornia wrote:
I keep hearing the images are not as good as can be, except with very good len's, how good do they mean? and also several reviews have stated considerable Noise after 1600 ISO, does anyone have experience with that issue.

Thanks Kal

These were taken last night. 50D + Zuiko 24/2.8. All noise reduction features off.

Full crop ISO 100


Full crop ISO 1600

50D may have a touch more noise at the pixel level @ 800 or above, but at the image level it has a touch less noise.

UCSB wrote:
John P Mulgrew wrote:
Why would Canon make the 50D with the AF/On third button but not for the grip? They should have made the 3rd button for the grip or left it alone for back button focusing.

They do allow you to switch the * and AF ON buttons ... this would allow you to use AF ON on the grip. But, I agree the grip should have all three buttons.


Agreed. The WFT-E3a has an AF-On button, and makes a great (albeit expensive) vertical grip if you need/can afford this accessory. Odd that Canon didn't add this to the BG-E2 when they had the chance (wih the 'N' model).

I just made the transition to the 50D from a 20D and while I have not done any direct side-by-side comparison I've been favorably impressed by the new acquisition. The resolution of the 20D still meets most of my needs, but I've been wanting a 2nd body / back-up and the bigger screen, improved feed back, micro-adjust and other user interface feature make it worth the price of the upgrade for me ($1,089 at B&H with the instant rebate).

I have AF lock set to * on the 20D so the AF-ON button was new to me. What I do on the 20D is lock AF with the * button, recompose, then half-press shutter to lock AE. I shoot with two flashes with Canon ETTL wireless most of the time. I don't use FEL, I just try to let Evaluate metering sort things out by locking ambient AE (in Av mode) with half-press of the shutter after recomposing, then fully press to fire pre-flash for the Evaluative metering process. I found with evaluative its better to just let the camera take its best baseline guess with flash at FEC=0, evaluate the results in the histogram / over-exposure warning, then correct from that baseline with +/- FEC.

After perusing the manual I have set Set AF-On via CF.n to option 3 which seems to do the same thing. With the "zero baseline" approach I use I find the 50D does a better job on flash exposure at FEC=0 than the 20D, but more systematic testing is required to confirm that objectively. FWIW, I've discovered the active AF point doesn't show in the playback after the function of the AF-ON button is changed via CF.n

I may switch the AF-ON and * buttons because I keep hitting * by mistake and getting a FEL burst I don't want. I don't use a grip so the button issue there is not a problem. Can the * button, if not swapped be reconfigured for other uses or turned off? I can't find a CF.n yet to do that.


Chuck

Chuck maybe you can just turn the FEL off?

I dont think it can be reassigned to anything else, however it is a good idea to move the AF on to that * since the * is like you said more readily pushed.

A bit more experimentation with flash:

On the 20D I found it easier to lock AF with *, recompose, half press the shutter and pre-flash and then let evaluative sort out the exposure: in part because the 20D lacks spot metering.

After I switched the AF-ON and * buttons, and found it equally convenient to lock AF with *, then move the center point over the the white towel I use as an exposure target for portraits (and other situations where practical) and pre-flash and FEL on it prior to recomposing for the shot. At FEC=0 FEL renders the towel gray, as would be expected for any meter, and about +1-2/3 stops FEC is needed to render it correctly, 1/3 stop below clipping; about the same as my 20D workflow.

So it looks like I'll be adapting my composition / metering workflow to the new (to me) two-button interface of camera. That's pretty much been the case with every camera I've owned, adapting to the camera rather than fretting that it can't do things the way I'm accustomed to doing them.

It the process of doing this I noticed another undocumented feature. When FEC is adjusted on the flash it locks out the camera FEC control, which is a good thing

On the 20D there was no indication when FEC was dialed into the flash and it was possible to dial different amounts on camera and flash. For example you might reach +2 on the camera and need more, switch to flash and dial in 2-1/3. But when the flash FEC was set to 0 again the +2 set on the camera would kick back in, which if not noticed will drive you nuts trying to figure out why exposure wasn't correct, followed by one of those DOH! moments

I see that on the 50D when FEC is set on the flash and the FEC button is pressed on the camera the FEC symbol will flash in the top LCD and viewfinder as warning and the amount of FEC dialed into the flash (a 580ex) is shown. If you adjust the FEC on the flash while holding down the FEC button on the camera the bar indicator on the camera will change in real time to reflect the setting on the flash. That inter-lock is a nice enhancement which prevents errors if switching back and forth between FEC on camera vs flash. This might have been added previously on the 30D or 40D but I skipped those two.

Chuck