Hi :-)

I refer to the now locked thread titled "Canon 50D Leaked on China Site" (http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/679656 )and the debate over the specs concern over higher MP etc... I can't resist (to you know who you are - I'm sorry!!!)...

Canon is waking up. They are aware of what Sony and Nikon are going to release (have been for some while) and are on an active fightback program. The loss of DSLR market share starting 18 months or so woke up Canon about 12 months ago. The new R&D has taken a while. There are new leaders in the Canon DLSR area, and a new pace of change. Not as fast as some would like. But this year and next year, far faster than many of the doomsayers on this and other forums imagine.

There is a 5D replacement coming soon. And other FF soon. For a while now Canon is shortening is DSLR cycles too. The ID III and IDs III will not have the usual 1D three year lifecycle. And in the short term, Canon has the flexibility to reprice the 1Ds III to anything it likes down to as little as $1000 more than the 1D III. Gives them some breathing space (in the same way they did with the 5D pricing down towards the D300 when the D3 came out.)

DIGIC IV is real and part of Canons DSLR futures. It has the 2 to 1 and 4 to 1 pixel binning and next generation noise reduction capabilities. Note the sRAW1 and sRAW2 specs. sRAW1 with a 15.1mp sensor creates great 7.6mp images with something like a 2 stop noise advantage over the 30D at 8mp. They can take a 15.1mp sensor and ISO 12800 and produce stunning images in sRAW2. You can do your own maths about a 21mp (or so) FF sensor and DIGIC IV.

DIGC IV also has a HD movie mode waiting in the wings - don’t laugh about this being a toy you can take newspaper print quality images off any frame, just like the RED cameras.

Canon have been working on 100% microlens, low voltage low noise sensors capable of native ISO 12800. They suffer from some quantisation noise at smaller pixel sizes (limited by physics) but this is fixed by pixel binning to create virtual larger pixels when you need the really high ISOs. The 50D has equivalent per pixel noise to the 40D – less when looked at on a noise per frame perspective. There are some real advances to be obtained yet in sensor design.

DIGIC V is already in engineering design for even faster image handling. Imagine a future with a full frame 50mp sensor with virtually no noise at up to ISO 800 (awesome for studio work). Imagine the same sensor with sRAW1 and 25mp and ISO performance and 3200 better than the current 1Ds III… or 5D. And sRAW2 at 12.5mp and ISO 12800 performance that looks like today’s 5D at 3200. Or even an 8 to 1 sRAW3. Candlelight shooting anyone!

Yes it would be nice to have pro-AF and more (there’s some features for the 60D and beyond). But the 50D camera is a big step forward. The cross type AF points lock and track really well. And ultimately there will always be features in the top of the line cameras that are not in the mid series.

And… Nikon has its D90 and 25Mp in the D3 style body and 25MP in a D700 like body cameras coming… Sony has two 25 Mp cameras planned and is also working on their own sensors up to 50Mp and openly talking to others about it. Canon is not doing this for altruism. Canon has planned its cameras to slot in between (and in some cases ahead) of Nikons in terms of features and price and has put what it considers to be some highly desirable features in each camera model to catch aspirational buyers.

Oh, and Nikon has a massive computer imaging design based lens program, with the new 12-24 F2.8 and 24-70 F2.8 being good examples. It is part of its program of targeting the professional market with a series of market leading lenses covering all the main focus ranges (sadly not too many primes planned yet). There are a slew of new Nikon lenses coming over the next couple of year…. So… Canon (a little slower than with this year’s bodies) is starting to focus on lens replacements and upgrades. Moving away from its previous more hand crafted design to the sophisticated computer controlled light modelling design techniques. Expect 2009 and 2010 to be very interesting lens wise… (A number of the lenses are being redone to get higher resolutions so as to not be embarrassed when FF sensors reach 50mp)

So, knock the specs if you want… Believe me or not if you want. The resolution, the noise the convenience features of the new 50D will speak for themselves when it is announced. Some will not be happy, wanting their 1D III specs for 1/3 the price… (just wait a couple of years). Even I would like (not expect, but like) D300 like AF but hey that would beat the 1D III). And (from what I know) the new 5D replacement, along with, later new FF, are also deeply impressive cameras carefully targeted knowing the specs of the new Nikon and Sony FF. They are far from the ‘warmed up” 40Ds that we would have had if the 5D replacement had have come out last year.

I know I’ll be replacing my 40D and 5D (instead of just my 5D), my only quandary is wither two new FF or a 50D and a 5D replacement… And, despite the protests from some of you – so will many of those on this forum with 5D or 20D/30D etc. Certainly IMO the new cameras achieve Canon’s objective of taking away any reason to move to Nikon for most people with any significant investment in Canon glass, and being extremely competitive price wise for new buyers. Could they be better (of course always). Will some people prefer a Nikon or Sony model for valid reasons for them (of course !). Will there be features that people will fight to the death that should have been added or should not have been added (you bet that’s what happens on internet forums). Feature differentiation at work just as in most markets. We are in for an amazing ride over the next 2 to 3 years as Canon, Nikon and Sony 'slug it out' adding features and pushing the limits of physics in some cases. Buy the largest CF or SD cards you can if you want to enjoy the megapixel and speed ride we will be on!

Have a great and wonderful day ;-)

That is exactly, what I read in my all morning coffee powder
Great times for us are coming!

Ralph

Interesting post

I haven't been on this forum for long, so I don't know about your "credibility" as you posted a lot of information that sounds like fact, but in any case, I choose to view it as rumour instead of attacking you as would happen on other (read: DPReview ) forums.

I'd just like to speak on this part of your post if I may

Geoff Costello wrote:
There is a 5D replacement coming soon. And other FF soon. For a while now Canon is shortening is DSLR cycles too. The ID III and IDs III will not have the usual 1D three year lifecycle. And in the short term, Canon has the flexibility to reprice the 1Ds III to anything it likes down to as little as $1000 more than the 1D III. Gives them some breathing space (in the same way they did with the 5D pricing down towards the D300 when the D3 came out.)


1. How do you know there are two FF cameras coming? If you have inside info, are you able to ascertain if they will both be released @ Photokina?
2. I'm of the opinion that the 1 series will keep a longer life-cycle, even if that means the lower series end up with higher "features" because if you're charging up to $8k for a camera, your customers will be fairly upset if you trump that camera just a year later. I can see the 1 series slipping to a 2 year cycle at best (excluding "N" updates)
3. If Canon DID knock a significant amount of money off the 1Ds line, that would just prove that they have been charging a massive premium on this camera, and prove just how over priced, and maybe, over rated the 1Ds line is.

It's his armchair speculation and photo gadget pundit rant all rolled into one.

That was painful to read.

e.g.: "...Will there be features that people will fight to the death that should have been added or should not have been added (you bet that’s what happens on internet forums)."

People will fight features to the death?

Does the OP have any reference for all the information he is stating as established fact? If it's speculation then say so. If it isn't then please substansiate all the stuff about Digic 4&5 and 'The 50D has equivalent per pixel noise to the 40D – less when looked at on a noise per frame perspective.' If you can't prove it and you can't then why write it as fact other than just to mouth off?

It clarifies me with some rumors already going on ....

Thank you !!

What's 100% microlens and what are the benefits?

abam wrote:
That was painful to read.

e.g.: "...Will there be features that people will fight to the death that should have been added or should not have been added (you bet that’s what happens on internet forums)."

People will fight features to the death?

Take THAT, face detection! DIE!

I guess you must have read different 50D specs then i did...because that sure didnt sound like canon woke up to any of the competition. They are just releasing a new 40D basically with VGA screen and micro adjustment...Who cares if it has 15mp. if they wanted to actually try to answer the D300...I still dont know about that ISO stuff..
they would have add a new focus system with about 25 or so focus points instead of using an age old same 9point system. That focus system is a big selling point on that D300 I would imagine. people will def notice this. Canon needs a wake up call.

The post would be very interesting if there was any basis for this information . It sounds more like a crystal balling wish list. But if he really does have some insider trading I'm more than happy to read anything else he has to reveal.

05xrunner wrote:
Canon needs a wake up call.

The call happened last fall with the D300 release. Unfortunately Canon was asleep and missed the call and hasn't listened to their voicemail.

Craig Gowens wrote:
05xrunner wrote:
Canon needs a wake up call.

The call happened last fall with the D300 release. Unfortunately Canon was asleep and missed the call and hasn't listened to their voicemail.


Sad but true.

for anyone who might be comparing nikon's D300 to canon's prosumer crop line, let's not forget that the D300 costs €1326, and the 40D €770. (here, at least)

despite the 'prosumer' branding, the two models pander to different target markets. the 40D is, for its price point, a very capable camera, and its successor is not intended to 'go up against' the 300D. the 40Dn's/50D's competition are the K20D (with its 14MP sensor), the sony alpha-700, and the like.

YMMV. cheers.

sorry..but most people when buying in this range are choosing between the 40D and D300...even though the price is a little more. I really think Canon needed to step up its game on this body but it looks like they just pushed it out the door as a tweaked 40D.

Pixel Perfect wrote:
The post would be very interesting if there was any basis for this information . It sounds more like a crystal balling wish list. But if he really does have some insider trading I'm more than happy to read anything else he has to reveal.

+1

Before writing anything like the above, the OP should first establish some sort of credibility. Without that established first, I regard this as little more than someone who has a lot of speculations, and a desire for attention. What amazes me more are posts that thank this person - as though the act of writing something down makes it true.

...but most people when buying in this range are choosing between the 40D and D300...'

fairy muff, although my experience here (germanic world) has been different. i suppose it largely depends on if you 'compare up or down...' because the canon and nikon lineups are more or less staggered, you can either choose to compare up or compare down universally (e.g., compare down to always give canon the edge), or compare up or down depending on which models are more similar - which is what (i should hope) i'm doing. the 40D's price (here) and capabilities are much more akin to the D80, and as a result, people i talk with (again, here) are taking their €800 euro budget and deciding between those two models. if €800 is your budget, sure you can look at a D300, but you're not going to buy it. conversely, give a man a budget of €1300 (and no particular reason to favor one system over the other) and despite perusing the canon prosumer isle, there's no doubt that he'll be going home with the D300 - because the nikon is on another level than the 40D. the D80, on the other hand, is not - especially pricewise - and the D90 will be muscling for the same target audience that the 50D will.

i suppose that's just where i'm coming from, and YMMV. cheers


edit reason: corrected a misspelled word

abam wrote:
...but most people when buying in this range are choosing between the 40D and D300...'

the D90 will be muscling for the same target audience that the 50D will.

I will bet the D90 will have way more then the 50D as well...canon really missed the boat on this one.

At the moment the 'pace of change' has slowed but certainly not stopped, meaning the market is moving for nearly new gear sold at a healthy discount.

This won't continue if the feature race slows down and the manufacturers know this, so what will they think of to tempt us to continue to upgrade dslr bodies on a regular basis?

Thats what I think is an interesting question, because cameras like the 450D, which are just SO good at such a good price, will take some serious beating

David

05xrunner wrote:
I will bet the D90 will have way more then the 50D as well...canon really missed the boat on this one.

no arguments (yet) on that point -- i expect the D90 to be a killer body. if nikon continues their tour de force in body releases, shame for the 50D that it will have to go up against it (given similar pricing and what we've seen already of the 50D 'specs').

YMMV. cheers.

05xrunner wrote:
abam wrote:
...but most people when buying in this range are choosing between the 40D and D300...'

the D90 will be muscling for the same target audience that the 50D will.

I will bet the D90 will have way more then the 50D as well...canon really missed the boat on this one.

The D90 will not be quite as much camera as the 50D. But it will be close.

12MP
4.5fps
3" 922K display
Live View
HD Video recording in LV mode (the killer app for the D90).

Baby D300 in other words, like the D80 is a baby D200.

and what about the focus system...I would bet its not one that is been recycled way way way to many times

Put the money in lenses!

05xrunner wrote:
and what about the focus system...I would bet its not one that is been recycled way way way to many times

As far as I can see, the expected 50D AF system is just one year old, and it has only been used in the 40D. That's not exactly "recycled way way way to many times".

its the same 9 point af thats been around since the 20D...its time to revise it and add more points to make it more comparable to the competition. Like 25points would be great. Just cause they are cross now...still doesnt fill those huge voids between them