robertlynn wrote: Who gives a crap what color your lighting is, as long as the output is there, and quality components go in?

Paul Buff gives a crap. That's why he offers so many colors. And I care, as well. I like my lights to look aesthetically pleasing. I like to feel that I own and work with tools that I value. It makes me smile and gives me confidence.

I like my furniture to look cool, because a sense of style in my home gives me pleasure. I care about the clothes that I wear because I know it makes a relevant impression on those I do business with. I wear a suit to funerals because it's respectful. Yeah, I could show up in shorts and flip-flops, but I feel a sense of obligation to my family. I like that my wife takes care of herself and dresses all girly. Yeah, I know that she's a good person inside, but it brings me pleasure to see her looking vibrant and beautiful.

I also prefer paintings by Michelangelo over graffiti or dogs playing poker on a velvet canvas. I give a crap about what my photography looks like. Have you ever been to Florence? It's the look of the city that overwhelms the senses. Cobblestone streets, beautiful architecture, magnificent churches -- you know that you're definitely not in Kansas, Toto.

Say what you want, but the gift of sight is not something to ever take for granted. If you care not a wit for the beauty that life holds in all its wonderful facets, then maybe photography is not your gift to the world.

Way to go Deezie. We are now connecting in code that most won't understand. But we may have to produce a decoder ring so everyone can decipher!

Gregg Heckler wrote:
This is one of the reasons I use Gitzo. But this is also a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Bogen owns both brands, but given the price and feature difference, some may be willing to get pinched a little. You can't have a Gitzo for a Manfrotto price.

I switched to Gitzo as well but I did consider other brands because Bogen ticked me off (couldn't find anything else w/ non-spinning legs).
Of course, now Gitzo is now on my ticked off list because they didn't bother to reply about the questions I had about the systematic plate falling off for some people...when you get too big, the "bottom line" is more important to you can customer service. I guess I should just be happy I won't be bled my tripod

Why on earth have AB's chosen it's European representative in Switzerland? That means that practically every single other country in Europe will have to pay import tax, local VAT and the shippers fees for processing the above. Infact exactly the same as if the units were shipped from the states, knowing Switzerland probably the same amount for shipping as well! The advertised 10% extra over US prices are likely to become rather more than that by the time you have it in your hands. I suppose it will be useful for repair, I have two units that could do with non urgent repair. I just hope that the main office in the states will still offer AB's (classic) with 240V for EU use for $10 extra. My father lectures in the states and is over there about 5 times a year so I still think it would be cheaper to continue ordering from there.

Beni wrote:
Why on earth have AB's chosen it's European representative in Switzerland? That means that practically every single other country in Europe will have to pay import tax, local VAT and the shippers fees for processing the above.
Gotham, the rep company, has a subsidiary beyond the fence (in Germany) which caters the EU market. Hence no hassle, all business is inside the EU custom zone.

RDKirk wrote:
You could get digital switches, but not digital electronic flash technology at this particular price point. Now you can digital technology at this price point.

Yes, you are correct about the price point. Paul does a great job of that - no question!

But the Broncolor Pulso A4 was 100% digital in 1992. That is what Paul is "cloning" today. That is what I have been using since then, and love to use.

Don't get me wrong - I am **not** criticizing Paul! I haven't ventured into telling him how to run his business either.

I am just saying that those of us who prefer to use higher end equipment have taken **a lot** of shit here from newbies who got their first lights 2 weeks ago, who object that AB's should be good enough for everybody, who think Paul *invented* all of this stuff, and who think that "we" are elitist because we have a need and preference for more "sophisticated" equipment and control!

I have a degree in photography from 1981. I also have an MBA with an Information Systems concentration from 1991. In 1992 I did my first multi-million dollar, proprietary, Digital Asset Management (DAM) system for a Fortune 5 company (in detroit, if that helps - total cost was maybe $50 million at full roll-out worldwide.)

I did my last one in 2006, with 15 terabytes of images at 100K each, 10,000 users, plus the originals "wrapped" in a restricted electronic "vault" to ensure integrity.

When a scanner or an optical jukebox or a server for a project costs $100K, an extra $5K for lighting is not a big deal. And you don't do continous production shoots on a large scale (autos) with a couple of monolights.

Some studios needed duplicate equipment to switch over to when the packs got too hot - after a few hours of constant popping. And these are big, industrial beasts, up to 8,000 Ws at 240 volts.

Different strokes, no question. But there is a real, professional world with specialized needs, beyond those of a hobbyist. I've never had the flak on other professional forums that we have had here when talking higher end. Places where I used to keep my mouth shut because I was a newbie after 30 years, compared to the Hollywood folks at least.

OK, tired and ornery. End rant.

kenyee wrote:
[Of course, now Gitzo is now on my ticked off list because they didn't bother to reply about the questions I had about the systematic plate falling off for some people...

The "MAC" model in the US is somewhat broken for the smaller, niche products they represent. It is often hard to even find info on some products they import.

That is where a good **dealer** comes in! There are quite a number out there who rival the best in any industry for customer service. To name a few:

Midwest Photo Exchange - The owner, Stu, gave me his home phone - and every other number he had - and offered to come in on Thanksgiving day when he thought I needed to pick up a printer that day (the day after was fine.)

Dodd Camera in Cleveland - Offered to ship me anything I wanted to test for evaluation, like $6,000 items, on a momenmts notice for long term evaluation with no commitment. Met me while we were both travelling in Chicago just to have coffee and chat, always available via phone or e-mail, etc.

Jim Doyle at Shades of Paper - E-mailed me with his phone number when he saw a post of mine online to offer advice on printer pricing and dealers, not just to try to sell to me himself.

When Dodd offered to match a B&H price on a $4,000 product a few years ago, I insisted on paying them a bit more, because I value the hands-on service they provide.

Find a good dealer you trust, establish a relationship, and don't shop only based on price!

That said, B&H and Calumet have also both been excellent over the years. I continue to patronize all of the above (some are more niche players - paper and ink, Bronocolor specialists, printer specialists, etc.)

Remember, too, that there is a dictinction between **quality** and **customer service**. In fact, if you have the first, you may not need the second!


Best,
Michael

Paul Buff wrote:
We are now connecting in code that most won't understand.

Luap abductee!!

Sorry, that is all I know so far. Kind of like saying "good morning" in Spanish??

PeterBerressem wrote:
Beni wrote:
Why on earth have AB's chosen it's European representative in Switzerland? That means that practically every single other country in Europe will have to pay import tax, local VAT and the shippers fees for processing the above.
Gotham, the rep company, has a subsidiary beyond the fence (in Germany) which caters the EU market. Hence no hassle, all business is inside the EU custom zone.


Oooh that's good news!

mmurph wrote:
I did my last one in 2006, with 15 terabytes of images at 100K each, 10,000 users, plus the originals "wrapped" in a restricted electronic "vault" to ensure integrity.


Wow...now that'd be a fun project...I've worked on asset management software but nothing that had anything that order of magnitude usage from customers...definitely jealous that you probably got to play w/ phaseone backs too

You're going to pay your VAT and import duties whether it goes directly to EU country from us or via Switzerland.

kenyee wrote:
Wow...now that'd be a fun project...

It was! Always!

The first one in 1992 was the best. Everything was in "beta" - our servers, Oracle object-oriented database, optical jukebox. We had to write our own scroll/zoom/pan image management sofware (or someone else did at least - in C++.) And being "old school", understandinbg what you could actually do with digital images was still somethin of a paradigm shift! (ie: WTF??)

That was the first time I had ever seen an A1 size scanner - man, I never used that for my art work, screwed up big time there!

With the auto industry, by 2006, you had to beg to get funding for paper clips or post it notes. Even then it took 9 months to get approval for anything. Basically a slow death by strangulation. Pretty sucky trying to get anything done. (and Michigan is totally f''ed now, FWIW. We have already lost at least 650K good jobs since 2000. Many, many more to come.)

Any publicity is good publicity...

For every post or forum thats started with "Why do alien bees have to be so..."
Tons and tons of people become aware of the brand.
Every argument, every comment just brings ABs into awareness...
The reason they sell is not because of the graphics. And if someone doesn't buy them, it's not because of the graphics.

So my only question is, Paul how much are you paying Cinieski to generate brand awareness, and can I get in on it?


Best,
Adam

adamdewilde wrote:
So my only question is, Paul how much are you paying Cinieski to generate brand awareness, and can I get in on it?


I don't think you'll hear anything from Paul for a very long time

The lack of forums sucks, but the PCB Customer Service and the price point of the products is well worth it.

Paul Buff wrote:...What other explanation can there be for his sales to be setting new records every month during the global recession that is dragging competitors into the toilet and his rate of takers for his 60 day satisfaction return privilege is on the order of 1/10 of 1%?

Maybe the Alien Bees flash units send out mind controlling light pulses, sorta like the Katarian Game from ST:TNG.

Paul, I don't think people are saying you don't make a good product for your price market. The build quality of the PCB stuff rocks and as much as I like it, some don't. Different strokes for different folks.

I think what people are saying though is that it is a good idea for you to stay off forums. I like it when you post on here and give information about and advice about your products. But obviously you are too invested in your company (as any hard working business owner should bee) and get defensive when people start nitpicking at it. Sounds like time to hire a PR person for the forums. Calling people idiots and telling them that they don't know much about anything...really?

Paul. You just solidified the problem. Can you take a step back and reread what you just wrote and see how personal you take things? And that after taking things so personally, you fire back at people angrily......which in turns gets people to fire back when their first intention is simple discussion?

Paul Buff wrote:
Talofa wrote:
adamdewilde wrote:
So my only question is, Paul how much are you paying Cinieski to generate brand awareness, and can I get in on it?


I don't think you'll hear anything from Paul for a very long time


Surprise - here I am watching a bunch of idiots call me an idiot while the entire photo forum industry permeates itself with posts about some egotistical fool that doesn't know anything about much of anything, yet somehow convinces the majority of the the industry to buy his products over the one's proclaimed by forum experts to be far superior.

Gee, he must pay them to buy his stuff because, surely, he's a lousy designer and treats his customers with contempt when they treat him with contempt. What other explanation can there be for his sales to be setting new records every month during the global recession that is dragging competitors into the toilet and his rate of takers for his 60 day satisfaction return privilege is on the order of 1/10 of 1%?

It's sad that something like the internet becomes a place that makes it too easy for people with no REAL knowledge to fire rocks at those who do.
Paul comes on here to actually contribute and if anyone has intimate knowledge of his products, it would be him! Too many people like to nitpick in this industry, and complain about every single little facet, and true, not every product is for everyone... But he's also a person, who has feelings, and I can only imagine how hard it is to sit and watch something that is a labour of love become picked apart by people that probably have never even touched one, much less used one of the products and actually know what they're complaining about, but rather regurgitating "facts" they have heard from someone else online!

Can we just stop picking internet fights, and can't we all have a grown up conversation? Use something like this forum as a place to work together?

I am a bit troubled by all this piling-on, harsh criticism of Paul. There have been a lot of redundant comments about Paul the person, however, there have been very few in regards to his products. Most of this, though, is due to Paul's actions on these boards. He proclaims that he's checking-out of this forum, then comes back almost immediately. He removes the forum from his own site, only to put it back up (in read-only format), or so I've heard. And when he does return, he comes back with defensive, caustic comments.

Now, I understand where he's coming from. I wouldn't want to have my character assassinated on a public forum that caters to my core demographic - or any forum, for that matter. But Paul must understand that most of this is a reaction to his hyper-emotional behavior on these forums. He's a bit of train wreck in this regard, and should realize that his presence on these forums are what create these often hostile threads. He's been kicked off another forum, and must bear some responsibility and come to an understanding that these are battles that he can never win.

There are many conversations about his gear on this forum, almost all of them tempered and filled with glowing reviews about his products. Many on this form sing the virtues of his low prices, customer service and reliable gear without causing the fury so common to the threads he responds to in defense of his company.

Simply put. Paul should not be here. His presence constantly undermines his own efforts to protect the image of his brand. There are many here who have experience with his gear that are able to comment on both the positives and negatives of Paul's products, and I think Paul might be surprised to find that there are far more positives that negatives.

I think the bottom line here is that on some level, Paul sees the inherent weaknesses in his gear and responds bitterly because it's a painful reminder that he doesn't care to face. But all gear has its limitations whether it be lights, cameras or lenses. Paul needs to chill out and understand that no matter how good his products may be, there are going to be those who find them less-useful for their way of working than other brands -- and they're going to be critical of his and other brands because of it.

In the past, I've been critical of nearly every brand I've owned. I've found fault with my Speedo's, Photogenics, Hensels, Profoto and, yes, even Alien Bees. There's always some features that bug, but the good typically outweigh the bad. Paul, your products can speak for themselves quite nicely without your own defensive commentary. Let them do so.

Paul Buff wrote:
Surprise - here I am watching a bunch of idiots call me an idiot

You know, if you didn't come on here and behave like one, you probably wouldn't be branded as such.

Funny that.

I'm sure your products are terrific, and I've been considering buying some, but honestly, your behaviour in public makes me wonder how long it'll be before your company implodes due to your bizarre behaviour.

You need to stop wasting your time on the forums, which is clearly counter-productive anyway, given your behaviour, and get back to trying to get product out when you said it would happen.

Which do you reckon is more important - shipping gear when you promise it will, or making a fool of yourself, and your company, in public?

Paul Buff wrote:
Surprise - here I am watching a bunch of idiots call me an idiot

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin (1937 – 2008)

RobertLynn wrote:
I'm pretty sure when I buy my AB's I'm getting them in White. Who gives a crap what color your lighting is, as long as the output is there, and quality components go in? I could care less about the "childish" marketing. Plenty of professionals use them and don't say about how they are going to buy elinchrom or whatever in the next shoot but use that equipment because it works for them.

Plenty of professionals use Elinchrom (myself included), Profoto, Hensel, Broncolor, etc, and don't say about how they are going to buy AB, White Lightning, Photogenic, Speedotron, Bowens, or anything else. They use their equipment because it works for them. So I guess I am missing your point...

miccullen wrote:
Paul Buff wrote:
Surprise - here I am watching a bunch of idiots call me an idiot

You know, if you didn't come on here and behave like one, you probably wouldn't be branded as such.

I think you might have zeroed-in on the problem, Mick!