Dang!

H3DII-50

Its less of a Dang than it sounds, its like upgrading a 8mp sensor to 10mp ;-) The question to many former MF users is: do prices move?

Andi Dietrich wrote:
Its less of a Dang than it sounds, its like upgrading a 8mp sensor to 10mp ;-) The question to many former MF users is: do prices move?

Well the Dang would be that it is the largest available sensor at this point (or rather in october when they release it). And yes prices are going down...

In Sweden Hasselblad is currently running an aggressive drive; for SEK 119 000 you get a H3DII-31 Kit, that is body, back, prism wf and 80mm. A few weeks ago it was twice the price.

I think they want to keep competitors like Hy6 and Mamiya/PhaseOne away now that their latest offerings are becoming readily available.

So for a few bucks more than the 1DS MK III (I hate Canon naming) you have the option of getting a great MF system (if that suits your needs).

So for a few bucks more than the 1DS MK III (I hate Canon naming) you have the option of getting a great MF system (if that suits your needs).


This is probably what they want people to believe, but a system is camera + lenses, and the Zeiss lenses are very expensive! You will spend the same amount of money than for the camera alone, and then more...

regards
Bernie

alba63 wrote:
This is probably what they want people to believe, but a system is camera + lenses, and the Zeiss lenses are very expensive! You will spend the same amount of money than for the camera alone, and then more...

regards
Bernie

Iīm not saying that they are equal in price, Iīm just saying that the difference in price has been greatly reduced. I think most people are aware that the average Hasselblad lens (made by Fuji, by the way) is a lot more expensive than the average 35mm lens. And of course 35mm and MF are different animals. Different strokes for different folks!




Edited by sputnik on Jul 07, 2008 at 10:24 PM GMT

Hassy is the the first to 50 mp. Given it's the Kodak chip, I assume that a 50 mp Phase One back will be available shortly.

By the way, did you see the price of the new Hassy 50mp? 30,000 Euros. That's nearly US$50,000 these days. Ouch.

sputnik wrote:
So for a few bucks more than the 1DS MK III (I hate Canon naming) you have the option of getting a great MF system (if that suits your needs).


A few bucks more? Retail on the 1Ds3 is $7999 here, $7200 with a couple phone calls. A H3DII-31 is $17,995. So a few bucks is $10,000?

The scary part is there is no mention of the H3DII-22 in the new Hasselabld PDF brochure, so no more 22 MP back from Hasselblad? That means somebody who wants full-frame has to pick the H3DII-39 even if they don't need or want 39 MP?

Instead of nixing the H3DII-22, I think Hasselblad would be better served by lowering price on the H3DII-22 and stealing Canon market share. As for 50 MP, that's more than I can imagine needing, but I'm sure people will buy it. Hopefully Kodak squeezed some ISO improvements in there too.

I know the medium format digital makers want to distance/differentiate themselves from dSLRs, but at the same time they are alienating dSLR shoppers by maintaining such a large price gap.

John Black wrote:
A few bucks more? Retail on the 1Ds3 is $7999 here, $7200 with a couple phone calls. A H3DII-31 is $17,995. So a few bucks is $10,000?

I know the medium format digital makers want to distance/differentiate themselves from dSLRs, but at the same time they are alienating dSLR shoppers by maintaining such a large price gap.


I don't think you read the whole post. Yes as I said, the price difference is not that big here where I live, right now . Obviously the price differs between markets. And of course it's a time limited campaign.

Also I think MF will continue to be a professional segment for a long time.

Lotusm50 wrote:
Hassy is the the first to 50 mp. Given it's the Kodak chip, I assume that a 50 mp Phase One back will be available shortly.



All we know for sure is that Kodak just released a 50MP chip. Every back maker is free to choose it, if they see a market for it and if the performance is there. There are no ties between the sensor makers and back makers. For example, I believe Sinar has used both.

Graham-
True, but since Phase One has been using Kodak chips for years, and since I don't think Phase One wants to be second to anyone, I'm sure they will produce a 50 mp back with the chip.

Phase's attention might have been directed to their new camera body with Mamiya recently, but I'm sure they've got their focus on the new chip, which apparently contains a number of advances beyond mere pixel count.



Edited by Lotusm50 on Jul 08, 2008 at 07:39 AM GMT

It is very likely that Hasselblad won't be the only back maker to offer this chip. By the way, Hasselblad announced this back before they even had a chance to test the sensor! That is just another example of their unethical approach to marketing - desperate to be first with the product news before even knowing how the chip performs.

foto-z wrote:
It is very likely that Hasselblad won't be the only back maker to offer this chip. By the way, Hasselblad announced this back before they even had a chance to test the sensor! That is just another example of their unethical approach to marketing - desperate to be first with the product news before even knowing how the chip performs.

Are you saying that Hasselblad is marketing a chip that they have not tested themselves? That sounds a bit over the top if you ask me! Not to mention risky and unlikely from business standpoint. Sounds to me you are a bit angry with the people at Hasselblad.

Personally I couldnīt care less what brand came out with what chip at however many megapixels first. I'm more interested in the fact that someone does! Itīs driving the industry forward and gives me better stuff - even though I'm not in the MF niche myself.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Hasselblad made the announcement the same day that Kodak released developer sensor kits to the back makers, so draw your own conclusions

" I couldnīt care less what brand came out with what chip at however many megapixels first"

Me neither, if there is only a few weeks between brands, but the point is that Hasselblad didn't come out with anything first. They just announced a phantom product, and yes I find that irritating. The public deserves to know the whole story.

My only hope is that this results in cheaper 39mp backs, either new, refurbished, or second-hand.

For anyone who is interested, I just received the spec sheet from Kodak:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tzugyyqvzyy

FWIW, the dynamic range seems to be around 11.5 stops.

foto-z wrote:
It is very likely that Hasselblad won't be the only back maker to offer this chip. By the way, Hasselblad announced this back before they even had a chance to test the sensor! That is just another example of their unethical approach to marketing - desperate to be first with the product news before even knowing how the chip performs.

Geez Graham... On one hand we say we want to see product roadmap so that we know what products are coming up. Thus we can plan financially and make better informed purchase decisions today - such as should I buy the H3DII-31 promo? Hasselblad is providing that information to a degree. It's certainly better than none.

I get the point you're trying to make about MF equipment makers promising ABC and delivering much later than promised. Just consider their announcement as a short term product roadmap. You know Hass is going 50 MP, same sensor size, evidently 22 MP is phased out and they think it's coming sometime between Q408 and Q109.

Considering the likely very high price on that back, 6 to 12 months is a reasonable amount of lead time for studios and enthusiasts to begin planning for such as upgrade - if they are interested.

foto-z wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Hasselblad made the announcement the same day that Kodak released developer sensor kits to the back makers, so draw your own conclusions


Iīm having a really hard time believing that Hasselblad (or any other reputable company) would make a public announcement like this based on a product they haven't even seen in real life. But of course I have been wrong before. There are just too many risks involved and too little to be gained. Imagine the backfire if this sensor and/or Hasselblad branded back would be sub optimal or even plain bad. The amount of bad will and possible legal actions surley can not be worth it. I mean, companies share lots of secrets with others when involved in various projects together. Look at Apple and the cell operators working on technical solutions.

I'm not saying that you are not telling the truth, merely that maybe you and other people don't have all the facts. But then again maybe you do.

I guess for now, only Hasselblad and Kodak knows the whole story, but hopefully soon more people will have most of the facts.

Did anyone else get the Hasselblad newsletter announcing a 645 sensor? (Well...actually they announced that they're going to annouce it.)

jamie123 wrote:
Did anyone else get the Hasselblad newsletter announcing a 645 sensor? (Well...actually they announced that they're going to annouce it.)


Yes, I got it. All they did was give a little teaser, saying, "Hasselblad is also proud to announce the upcoming launch of a new 645 sensor. Full details on the 645 sensor can be had at Hasselblad's Future Technology seminar at Photokina 2008 in Cologne."

I guess we'll have to wait and see what exactly they mean by "645 sensor". Will it be 36x48mm (currently the size masquerading as 645), or closer to the actual 645 film frame size? You will remember that Hasselbald a while back claimed that their 36x48mm sensor camera was "full frame".

sputnik wrote:
Are you saying that Hasselblad is marketing a chip that they have not tested themselves? That sounds a bit over the top if you ask me!

Isn't that what Leica did with their M8?


Lotusm50 wrote:You will remember that Hasselbald a while back claimed that their 36x48mm sensor camera was "full frame".

I recall that as well. They also prefaced it by calling their medium format camera a "new format". The 36x48 format!

jjlphoto wrote:
sputnik wrote:
Are you saying that Hasselblad is marketing a chip that they have not tested themselves? That sounds a bit over the top if you ask me!

Isn't that what Leica did with their M8?


I think there is a pattern here. Aren't both chip made by Kodak? ;-)