Thought I would ask this here instead of the Canon forum...

Which Body is best suited for Alternative/legacy/manual focus lenses ?
i.e. no mirror issues, AF confirm works fine, no issues with lens rear mounts/tabs, etc.

The options are

Canon 5D
Canon 1Ds Series or Canon 1D series
Canon 40D/30D/20D series
Canon XSi/XTi/XT, etc.


The other system would be Olympus, and the E3 can be the ideal camera for just about any legacy manual focus lens. However, with it's 2x crop FOV sensor, the only lens really suitable for wide angle on the E3 is Olympus's 7-14mm f4.0. So using legacy glass really doesn't pay off on the Olympus system - especially wide angle.


With 5D prices dropping pretty good, seems like it will be the ideal body for some good OM/Zeiss/Leica glass. I have an SLRc but prefer the compactness of the 5D. However, the fact that some lenses can cause issues with the 5D is a minor concern. Will the 1Ds work better in this regard.

Any input appreciated.

TY

I think from a mirror issue standpoint, a 1DsII would be your best bet. It has a full frame sensor, great viewfinder and is obviously high rez enough to take advantage of some of the great glass out there.
That said, I have a 5D and while there is mirror issues with some lenses, there are a lot that don't cause problems (specifically Olympus). There is also the option of shaving just a tiny bit of the mirror off -- something that I haven't done, yet. The main issues seem to be with C/Y Zeiss and Takumar lenses, with the C/Y lenses I found that the adapter is really the critical issue -- haven't tried any Taks yet.
Paul

I most often use the 5D with my alt glass, but I don't hesitate to reach for a 20D or 1DII, either. My most frequently used alt lenses are the Pentax 18/3.5 and Distagon 28/2.8, so it makes sense to use them on a FF body. I have modified three SMC Pentax and two (of five) Contax Carl Zeiss lenses to avoid problems with mirror clearance. I generally only mod lenses that I have already decided to keep (usually based on 20D results). The SMC Pentax 200/2.5 that I modded and later sold kept all of its original value (i.e. its sale price was not affected by the aperture leverectomy). The higher sensor pixel density of the 20D/30D bodies (higher than the 5D, that is) produces fine results, but their smaller & dimmer finders are a challenge to work with. My 20D has a Haoda split-prism focus screen that works very well, and I also use focus-confirmation chips on my Zeiss and Voigtlander telephotos.

I bought a 5D to use with my CZ lenses but faced mirror problems with 3 of my most important lenses. I had to buy a used 1Ds2 and recently sold the 5D. My recommendation is any 1Ds model.

I am so not interested in crop sensors because wide primes are no longer wide primes. If I were to go with all Olympus lenses, I'd go with a 5D. If I were using mainly higher-end C/Y lenses like the 28/2, 35/1.4, etc., that have known mirror issues on the 5D, I'd go with a 1Ds2...but that weight...ugh.

Any of them will work depending what does/doesn't annoy you, but some pros/cons (have owned them all unless noted - and will ignore things like iSO performance, etc):

5D - Mirror clearance, issue with some copies having to re-shim whenever you change focus screens (FS) between say stock and Ec-S, etc. Focus points are etched on screen above FS, making a 'clean' VF impossible which makes the VF of a 5D with a split/prism screen VERY crowded. Light. Good res. Can build up a notable a lot of dust/junk in pentaprism area over time. If 5DII is pending (big IF), value will take a big hit vs. current prices then stabilize. Better value come Photokina.

20/30D - NO mirror issues, can run damn near anything on it. Small dim VF makes running a screen like a Katzeye almost required - which runs into same etched focus points screen 'issue' as 5D. Good resolution, light. Spot metering in 30D. Crop will screw up alternate WA usage - wide needs to be real wide -- and primo real wide tends to get costly other than 14-24G. As 1-2 generation back bodies, very good value - have already taken hit from 40D. I'd pick 30D over 20D for spot metering alone.

40D - (used for some time but not owned) Has LV and replaceable focus screen, but have been some QC complaints of late and resolution tests vs the cheaper 30D (and even cheaper XSi) are under-whelming IMHO. Still a crop and still a small (vs. FF) VF. Unless you want LV, 30D better value.

1Ds 1-2 - Clean VF (no etched focus points), FF, lots focus screen options with no shimming issues, no notable dust issue in pentaprism, balances well with bigger lenses. Has multi-spot (up to 8) average metering (VERY handy for contrasty scenes), dual cards. Excellent resolution, price is decent. Heavy but comfortable. With 1Ds2 - lots of room to crop or get creative with say 14"x14" square prints. Printing large requires little up-rezzing, etc. Very good value for same reasons as 30D - has already taken it's big hit from the 1Ds3, will now just creep down like rest of pack.

1D2 - Crop allows more lens options but 1.3x doesn't kill ultra-wides. All benefits of 1 Series. That said, I found the AA filter on mine vs my 1Ds Mk1 and Mk2 far too robust for the fine detail capture I wanted. A high frame-rate (the 1d2 strong suit) isn't of much value with alternate manual focus glass. Good value - actually 1D2N seems to have retained more value - blame the 1D3 fiasco.

EDIT - Should also note that if you want to be able to use the same body with AF glass, the 1D/Ds Mk1-2 AF system is unreal in action.


1D3 (not owned) - All benefits of 1D2 but apparently thinner AA filter, nice sensor, LV, lighter batteries, etc. That said, it is a bit of a black sheep body and I'd only trust for MF work. Resale could be VERY tough unless bought cheap. Is also risk of a 1D3N or alike which would KILL resale. IMHO - lousy value, especially given modest price difference between it and a clean 1Ds2 - and the nasty premium vs a 5D+grip.

YMMV

Thank you for the info.

Not too keen on the 40D due to the crop factor but I find the live view really helpful. Just wish the 5D had it... oh well.

I only have 2 manual Zeiss lenses right now and the rest of my legacy glass is the OM stuff - which has no clearance issues. My most used Zeiss manual focus lens is the 25mm f2.8 and even that, I use maybe once every month or two... very rarely. So I think I am good to go with the 5D.

I am going to wait and see if the 1Ds Mk II drops down to $2500-$3000 or so and in that case, get it over the 5D Hoping this will happen in the next 6 months or so. I doubt if the 5D can drop in price that much more.... right now, these are going for $1800-$1900 - a big dip from the time I originally bought mine for $3000. I have learnt to live with the results of the 5D - just not too fond of the color (unless you post process).

Thanks again for your input.

I think you're pricing expectations on the 5D and 1Ds2 are optimistic based on history,but your call.
Based on history, my own expectation is in 6 mos, assuming a 5DII is announced and reviewed well:

1Ds2 Now - $3800 (+/- $200) In 6 mos: $3200-$3400
5D Now $1700-$1900 in 6 Mmos: $1200 or so then slowly down yr/yr from their

All cameras depreciate modestly yearly, take a big 1x hit when their successor is announced (assuming it fares well), then continue to depreciate at a modest rate.

However, 1 series bodies, regardless of what happens in the pro-sumer segment below them, depreciate more slowly than do the 20D, 30D, 5D, 40D. Part price point, part attraction of 1 Series build & AF, part higher churn & burn rate among users in the pro-sumer market, part longevity, etc.

The 5D is a nice camera, very nice. but it is still a FF sensor in a 30D body and it's depreciation rate until now and going fwd will be no different. There is also the argument that the 5D it was over-priced from the outset because price was set based on it being the only FF option vs. the uber-spendy (at the time) 1Ds2.

When the 1Ds3 drop 1Ds2 prices down about 30% it had an impact on 5D prices -- to borrow a term form my former career, the market is pretty efficient. People won't buy X if for suddenly slightly more they can get Super-X; the relative value of the lower body isn't good enough, so prices in the used market for X slide to reflect an appropriate value premium between the two units.

I'd base my camera buy on what I want to use now and not on what relative prices will be in 6 mos - used camera prices always move in a relative manner - and any 5DII IF it appears will do a 1x pile-drive (in terms of percentage drop) on used 5D prices.

Anyway, enough cheap advice. Good luck with your decision.

I've had zero problems with alternate lenses on my 1Ds2. No exposure anomalies, no problems with lenses hitting the mirror, nothing :-) And it's super easy to focus with a split circle screen

I also use (now) the 1DS2 after using the 30D, 1D2, 1Ds Mk1, 5D, etc., and by far the 1Ds2 has been dead simple to use for alt glass as Daniel says. The 1Ds Mk1 is also a VERY good and cheaper option (~$1700) if easy high ISO use and speed of preview is not a big concern. The Mk1 delivers gorgeous files.

Also owned a Leica R8 w/grip (VERY sweet camera) and was (and still am) tempted by a DMR, but we'll see what happens come Photokina first.

Conner999 wrote:

5D Now $1700-$1900 in 6 Mmos: $1200 or so then slowly down yr/yr from their


The 5D is a good camera now. At $1200, it will be a great camera

But I doubt if it will be down that low... guessing $1500 and it will stay there for a year or so. Like the 1Ds body is today.

The wide bright apertures of MF prime lenses work quite well with my XT...

FYI, did you know your SLR/c will give focus confirmation in the viewfinder (with all manual lenses, without a AF confirm chip) if you have your AF switch set? It's one of those little things I like about the SLR/c

I know you mentioned this in another thread, but I never got it to give me an AF confirm beep. At best, I say the little green circle lights up with a few select lenses.

Can you please explain or show (picture) how I may do so.

I truly love the Kodak. I sold the 5D and 1Ds but am having a very hard time even attempting to let go of the SLRc..... especially since I got mine brand new from an authorized dealer.

TY

5D with modified mirror works with all my lenses well, but choosing a right adapter is really a headache!!!

It will not beep or illuminate the AF point, it will only light up the AF confirm green light in the viewfinder. Here's a pic from the net. The lever is located between the lens mount and the mirror box. I use a ball of electrical tape instead of paper:

pascal03 wrote:
Thought I would ask this here instead of the Canon forum...

Which Body is best suited for Alternative/legacy/manual focus lenses ?
i.e. no mirror issues, AF confirm works fine, no issues with lens rear mounts/tabs, etc.



My SD10 and SD14 both work great with alternative lenses...Manual focus only versions of course, though it can retain the AF and AA functions of Canon EF lenses that have been converted to SA mount.
I use lenses from Taylor-Hobson, Carl Zeiss, Tamron, Tokina, Nikon, Canon, Mamiya and more.

> Which Body is best suited for Alternative/legacy/manual focus lenses ?

Answer: a 5D with a modified mirror:
I am willing to sell my 5D, which has a modified mirror. I have a 1Ds3, so my 5D is patiently reproaching me like a jilted and forlorn lover. Although it's more than two years old it had the shutter replaced last September and hasn't had much use since I got my 1Ds3 in December, so there's plenty of life left in it. Importantly it also has a well calibrated Canon Ee-S manual focus screen so viewfinder manual focus with wide aperture lenses is really accurate. Tried and tested, successfully modified mirror to allow use of more Zeiss lenses - you don't see that often. I will probably put it on Buy&Sell soon. If anyone is interested PM me.

Conner999 wrote:
The 5D is a nice camera, very nice. but it is still a FF sensor in a 30D body
Or the 30D is a 5D with a smaller sensor.....