I was just reading through DPReview's of the Rebel XSi shooting in Monochrome mode for black and white images and I was wondering if there is a distinct benefit to shooting in this mode vs any other mode and converting. If you consider converting to BW from a "regular" D-SLR, then you can use the liminosity of each color channel to capture detail from each. Would monochrome mode negate this ability, or does shooting with no filter essentially give the same effect with the camera handling the file differently?

I'm not sure the science behind it, but I've read that shooting raw (in color) then converting to B/W is better than just straight up B/W. Why I don't know, but it's what I do with all of my B/W photos. Sometimes too, I'll convert photos that I've got no intent on being B/W, and sometimes I'll find a winner.

I always shoot RAW and use DPP's mono picture style, and apply fiter there. Then tweak with CS3...IMO, better results than doing it a tiff in photoshop.

DPP monochrome with a green filter...

Hmm, I never used DPP to change my color style. I just made the image gray-scale in CS2.

I'll have to try that on DPP.

RobertLynn wrote:
Hmm, I never used DPP to change my color style. I just made the image gray-scale in CS2.

I'll have to try that on DPP.

Trying it out for your own tastes is the only way. I used Photoshop CS2 and 3 Channel Mixer for a long time and just playing around, found this way more to my liking. There are likely reasons not to do it, but making the change in RAW and not losing any data before converting to tiff has some appeal. I love RAW files...sooo flexible.

And you know there are so many ways to make B&W anymore that I think you just have to find what you like the best, because each does seem to produce different "looks" for the final image.

You know, never did this but you might also ask this question over in the B&W Forum here on FM and see what those guys do...let us know if you do, that would be interesting.

You might have a look at this archived thread:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/435084

OP: As mentioned, there are lots of options for converting to B&W that are at least different from, if not necessarily better than, the way the camera does it. I think the camera does a pretty decent middle-of-the-road job of converting most shots to B&W though, and I've found that if I'm intending B&W from the beginning, it helps a little in terms of "thinking in B&W" to have it come up that way on the LCD. And if you shoot RAW + jpg, you have both: the full color info in the RAW file, and the instant B&W jpg. In fact, if you have BreezeBrowser, you don't even have to shoot RAW + jpg, as BB can extract the embedded jpg from the RAW file itself. It's not full-size, but it's more than adequate for web use and 4x6 prints.

Shane: That's really interesting about DPP. I don't think I even have it installed; I'll have to give it a look. I've been converting to B&W either using the Digital Outback B&W profile in Capture One, or else using CS3's excellent B&W adjustment module. And I love that last shot, the portrait... really nice.

Back to the OP: Here are a couple of more or less random examples of how you can take the same (color) shot and convert it using different parameters and get very different results:




Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

maxima302 wrote:
I was just reading through DPReview's of the Rebel XSi shooting in Monochrome mode for black and white images and I was wondering if there is a distinct benefit to shooting in this mode vs any other mode and converting. If you consider converting to BW from a "regular" D-SLR, then you can use the liminosity of each color channel to capture detail from each. Would monochrome mode negate this ability, or does shooting with no filter essentially give the same effect with the camera handling the file differently?

Even if you shoot in a "monochrome mode," if you shoot RAW the RAW files still contain all of the color data. Afterall, RAW files contain the RAW sensor data (more or less) including that captured in all three color channels.

In any case, working from a color original and converting later in software during post-production gives you far more control over the final result that you would have working with a monochrome original. A few examples:

You can apply any filter in post.

You can control the intensity of the filtering effect in post.

You can apply multiple filters in post.

You can apply different filtering to different portions of the image.

Dan

Dan, if you change a RAW file to monochrome, and then convert to tiff, and work on that...how does that reduce your options? As far as I know, you can still do all the things you say, but the original conversion was done in a fully lossless environment whereas everything you do after the conversion losses some pixels, even in tiff...albeit far less than a compressed image. Maybe I'm missing something...which is most likely the case, I'm not a photoshop guy.

Nill, what is Photoshops B&W Adjustment Module? Or where is it...? Maybe the adjustments you can do in Camera Raw to the RAW file?

Shane Canfield wrote:
I

Welllll...I only keep a few handy for FM, and I'm lazy...that's it.

Here you go...

Shane Canfield wrote:
Welllll...I only keep a few handy for FM, and I'm lazy...that's it.

Here you go...

Shane Canfield wrote:
Nill, what is Photoshops B&W Adjustment Module? Or where is it...? Maybe the adjustments you can do in Camera Raw to the RAW file?

Shane,
In CS3 under adjustments, there is a Black and White selection, which opens a preview window along with sliders for each of the color channels. It allows you to target specific color regions of the picture (even though you are viewing it in black and white), and see what the effect will have. For instance, you can target blue or cyan, and make a blue sky darker against the white clouds. I find it extremely helpful in getting my B&W conversions to where I want them.

Charlie

jamesf99 wrote:
Shane Canfield wrote:
Welllll...I only keep a few handy for FM, and I'm lazy...that's it.

BTW, that is my oldest daughter.

Here is my little one...yeah, hotspot on the chair...but she wanted to do a 1930s Hollywood style pic and so she got "dressed" up like some of the old George Hurrell photos we were looking at.





I'm kidding you; it's a great shot... Trouble, but still a great shot..


I know you were...trouble...thanks for reminding me!!!

chas wrote:
Shane Canfield wrote:
Nill, what is Photoshops B&W Adjustment Module? Or where is it...? Maybe the adjustments you can do in Camera Raw to the RAW file?

Shane,
In CS3 under adjustments, there is a Black and White selection, which opens a preview window along with sliders for each of the color channels. It allows you to target specific color regions of the picture (even though you are viewing it in black and white), and see what the effect will have. For instance, you can target blue or cyan, and make a blue sky darker against the white clouds. I find it extremely helpful in getting my B&W conversions to where I want them.

Charlie

Thanks, did not know about that one, will try it for sure...always looking for better ways to do it!

Shane Canfield wrote:
chas wrote:
Shane Canfield wrote:
Nill, what is Photoshops B&W Adjustment Module? Or where is it...? Maybe the adjustments you can do in Camera Raw to the RAW file?

Shane,
In CS3 under adjustments, there is a Black and White selection, which opens a preview window along with sliders for each of the color channels. It allows you to target specific color regions of the picture (even though you are viewing it in black and white), and see what the effect will have. For instance, you can target blue or cyan, and make a blue sky darker against the white clouds. I find it extremely helpful in getting my B&W conversions to where I want them.

Charlie

Thanks, did not know about that one, will try it for sure...always looking for better ways to do it!

Just looked at it...wow, now that is control!

Always shot in Raw. And then you can convert it to B&W in PS or other software. It will give you a lot more options and also better quality. PS will give you very good B&W pics.
An easy way if you are not so good with PS is a plugin. You can find a lot of good B&W plugins on the internet for free or a very small charge. Other good plugins are Fred's B&W Workflow Pro for $30. A really good but also expensive plugin is the Alien Skin Exposure 2 (it also has a color plugin for different film looks)
Here are a few samples, most are made with those plugins. but a few with only PS.

Wow Lars, those are superb.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Just another option to throw into the mix...

I use LR to perform the B&W conversion as this has more control (channel mixing etc) than DPP. I also looked at Appeture which had similar features but I just didn't get on with it as well.

I read a good book - Digital Black & White Photography by John Beardsworth. He suggested shooting in color and then converting to B&W to give more control. I've never really been happy with B&W from the camera but I can get some reasonable result after some basic tweaking in LR.

Lars, are the plugins for tiffs then and not RAW files?

Shane Canfield wrote:
Lars, are the plugins for tiffs then and not RAW files?

Shane, yes I convert the raw to a tiff in PS before I open it in the plugin

Very good, thanks for the info and SUPER examples! What is your favorite plugin of the many out there...if you care to share that.

I really like the Alien Skin Exposure 2. It's both for B&W and color. But I mostly use it for B&W. A great plugin but it cost about $ 230 so it's very expensive. Fred's is very good also.