Sorry guys, another one of those "give me advice on my gear" questions. I'm just not quite sure if I need the 2nd upgrade.

I am considering another upgrade to Full Frame territory with the 5D rebate. Hopefully, with the rebate and dell coupons, I can get the kit for a bit over 2k.

What I had used prior to the 1st upgrade:
Xti
Tamron 28-75 F2.8
50 F1.8
28-135 IS USM
18-55 Kit lense.

What I sold:
1- 28-135 IS USM -$300

What I bought in the upgrade:
40D with 28-135 IS USM -$1200 with other goodies 3 wks ago.
70-200 F4 USM

My current gear:
Xti
40D
28-75 Tamron
28-135 IS USM
Kit lense 18-55
70-200 F4 USM
Nifty 50 F1.8

Planning to sell:
Xti
28-135 IS USM

What I'm planning to buy:
5D with lense kit $2000+

So, with the rebate, I was originally planning on selling my Xti and the new 28-135 , which would come out to be around $900 to make up for the 40D I just bought. Then, I can use the rest of the savings for a 5D package.

But I'm having second guesses on this. I know it's been brought up many times before and I even created a poll on this earlier for suggestions (most ppl recommended I get the 5D first when I said I was going to get both). Luck has it, I found a better deal on a 40D first. So this throws everything off balance.

Is the Full Frame sensor of the 5D worth an extra $1300 for another camera (Kit (2200)-Lense price (900) = $1300 for a new 5D) or is spending it on lenses for my 40D (like 24-70 F2.8 + 70-200 F2.8) a better investment?

And my 2nd question, should I sell the xti + 28-135 or keep it as my light travel kit for vacations and family photos?

My background:

Graduating Sr. in high school. I do freelance work of sr. photos, family photos, and documenting some school related activities as my main source of photo related income. I also shoot sports on the side but I haven't gotten much $ from it.

In terms of $, I don't absolutely need the money I get from the xti + lense to fund my other stuff, but it'd be nice .

My reason for getting the 5D is simply the Full Frame sensor, which results in better noise handling and an appreciation of wide angle lenses. However, I'm questioning if that justifies getting a new camera for an extra $1300.

I'm also just thinking about keeping the xti and 28-135. If I sell it used, I won't get much $ out of it, where as if I keep it, the value won't depreciate much more than the current prices.


I would love to hear your opinions.

Buy or don't buy the 5D?
Sell the xti+28-135 or keep?

Thanks!

Jerry

Tough question Jerry. What you don't mention is what you will be doing after you graduate from school. Will you be going into a full time paid photography position that will benifit from the 5D directly, or will you be going to college locking that bad boy away at the bottom of your closet hoping no one will find it and pawn it when you are taking a shower in the dorms?

I don't think must have a FF sensor to do decent wide angle/landscape photography. The 10-22mm UWA lens is a great lens that is crop only. On the other hand do you planning on traveling all summer to get those once in a lifetime shots to frame and mount on the wall? That might sway the scales.

$1300 is quite a bit for someone just starting out in the grand game called life and independence. My "retirement/finance advisor" told me that one should keep enough money in the bank to live off of for 6 months (rent, food, car expenses, gas etc) if you couldn't work. Now I couldn't do that at your age (I'm 29 now), it was something I had to carefully work on while going to college and the like.

But I guess my point is, that set of stuff you already have is pretty decent basic set. Making more liquid assets like a 5D would hurt alot if it got stolen or broken. It hurts at any age, but especially when you are just starting out being financially independent (which should be any young person's ultimate goal).

Maybe I sound too much like a meiser, but my advice would be to hold on to the 2 very functional bodies that you have, sell the 18-55 and maybe save up for a wide angle lens, and see what your job/needs require. If you go into full time studio work, start collecting L lenses that cost $900+ a pop then a 5D sounds like a great long term investment, but never ever forget to give yourself that safety net. Nothin like good hard cash in the bank when you need it "now". I know, not a fun answer. I must be getting OLD!

Cheers and good luck! Oh and congrats grad!!! Enjoy the feeling of that tassle on your head! And make sure to get some pictures to remember it by!!!

FWIW, I don't think the Dell coupon and instant rebate are going to work together for the 5D. The rebates are only valid if used alone.

And good luck selling an XTi + 28-135 for $900. XTi is worth $500 at best (LNIB condition) with the new 40D bodies going for less than a grand due to rebates. Expect to get $700 for your XTi + 28-135.

I'd say sell the XTi and save that money for better glass that could be used if you switch to FF. No reason to go 5D now, especially because you'll need to get wide angle glass which will set you back another grand or so.

Thanks for your prompt response.

I guess I probably should clarify a few things.

My major for the next 4 years of college hasn't been decided. (it's a toss up between engineering, photo media, photo journalism, or business lol, I'm a interesting person excelling in both creative fields and the traditional academics.) However, no matter which major I choose, I have decided to dedicate parts of my life/day to photography at least as a hobby.

In terms of $, I have my tuition for school paid for in scholarships and a federal grant (and possibly more). I will be going to instate and living at home. From my paid freelance photography jobs, I have maintained a somewhat steady and healthy stream of income which has paid for all of my current gear + more. I am not 100% financially independent as of yet but I am pretty close for a 18 y.o. And I have enough $ saved in the bank to last me about a year with the current income/scholarships/grants and minimizing expenses. My dad actually saved up some $ in the past years for my college but since my tution is paid for, he's willing to spend some of that on photography equipment which is why I'm considering this 2nd upgrade.

Thank you again for your recommendations and your congrats.

Jerry

Hey Jerry,

Here are a few ideas:

(1) Don't over-focus on camera bodies to the exclusion of the rest of your "darkroom".

* Do you have a good tripod, ballhead, clamp, and L-bracket for your camera? If not, you should. I'd spend $ on these essential items before sinking another $1K into a new body. Don't go cheap on support (do buy used, e.g., here on FM buy-and-sell). Good support is as important as good glass.

* Do you do your own printing? For the amount your considering sinking into a body you could have close to an Epson 3800. There's nothing like a 16x20 to *really* impress your potential clients!

* Do you have a recent, full version of Photoshop? You might well qualify for academic pricing, e.g., at a local college bookstore (bring your student id).

* Do you calibrate your monitor? You might want to invest in a hardware calibrator. There is no other way to have print colors match monitor colors reasonably well.

(2) If you're not printing bigger than 8x10, then the resolutio of the 40D is plenty.

(3) Camera bodies lose value faster than almost any other component of your system. I generally avoid paying for the latest and greatest, because you're paying a premium, and your equipment is likely to lose a *lot* of value over the next 18-24 months. Hang back by a version or two (e.g., 30D, XTi at this point in time; get a 5D after some new thing comes out, when used 5Ds are selling for even less than they are now; Canon is now giving a rebate on the 5D, which *sometimes* means "clearance" and that something else is coming along). The xxD cameras are superb and plenty good for very serious photograph. Save your money -- or at least spend it one key items that are missing from your production pipeline. Why pay hundreds of dollars a year for depreciation of the high cost latest and greatest. Be savvy and realize that talent is *way* more important than the incremental benefit of the latest technology. Also, for most "outputs" you don't need more than you have.

(4) Your lenses are oriented to full-frame sensors. I suggest that you seriously consider trading in the 24-X and/or 28-X lens(es) for a Tamron 17-50 (or the Canon 17-55 if you can afford it). They much, much better matched to the 1.6 crop sensor. In particular, they will give you a true wide-angle capability that you're reallky missing now. These lenses behave on a 1.6 crop camera the way that a 24-70 behaves on a full frame.

(5) Have fun!

KS



Xti
40D
28-75 Tamron
28-135 IS USM
Kit lense 18-55
70-200 F4 USM
Nifty 50 F1.8

Planning to sell:
Xti
28-135 IS USM

What I'm planning to buy:
5D with lense kit $2000+

A 2nd congrats then. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, and have managed to accomplish that much at such a young age. Living at home saves $$, but man my freshman year... there is something about living away from home that teaches you alot about who you are. If you don't do it now, you will do it later.

With that extra info, I'd have to chime in with the other responses. Focus on improving your lenses first and the support gear that goes with it. The 17-55 is a great lens, you could also think about getting something faster for the sports you mentioned. Think about all the college games you can go to. Man I miss my undergrad days!

Good luck. This is one of the best times of your life if you let it be so! Enjoy!!

I would keep the cameras you have, or sell the XTi if you don't need a second body. Then I would seriously upgrade your lenses, not your camera body.

I say buying better lenses. Why? Because that is an upgrade you "take with you" if you will. Like, as long as the mounts aren't ef-s, the lenses can go to you when you go FF.

That said, the 5D has a great rebate program. However, there's almost no end of deals on this camera. You WILL be able to find agood deal in the future. ALSO when the 5D2 (WHEN, IF) it comes out, expect to see 5D's on the used, and new market marked down for quick sale.

Buy better glass, and keep the cameras you have.

jerrywang1789 wrote:

My major for the next 4 years of college hasn't been decided. (it's a toss up between engineering, photo media, photo journalism, or business lol, I'm a interesting person excelling in both creative fields and the traditional academics.)

Jerry

My bias - study engineering - even if you never work as an engineer you learn a problem solving methodology that you can use anywhere. Then load up on business / arts courses as electives - maybe even minor in one.

This is from an aero/astro engineer who worked as an engineer 6 months of my career and 5 as a field engineer testing and fixing power plants.

Now as a consultant doing strategy work (MBA helped here) What classes have helped me the most - those that taught me how to write; speak (I did competitive extemporaneous and impromptu public speaking in HS and college); and solve problems.

Most of all, take stuff you enjoy.

As for the gear; go with glass. You can always upgrade the body, and in a year or two the 5D will be more affordable and you'll have the glass to make it right. Personally, when I made the switch from film to crop I never noticed the difference; but then again I don't do landscapes.

If you really want a FF for landscape; consider a used film camera. That will let you experiment with FF at a reasonable price plus if you develop and print you'll learn the traditional aspects of the craft as well. Once you've run a few rolls of film through the camera you can decide if a FF digital is a must. Plus; if you bank the $2K you'll have even more when you decide to go FF; and teh 5D price won't grow anywhere near the interest rate on a CD.

jlc61 wrote:
jerrywang1789 wrote:

My major for the next 4 years of college hasn't been decided. (it's a toss up between engineering, photo media, photo journalism, or business lol, I'm a interesting person excelling in both creative fields and the traditional academics.)

Jerry

My bias - study engineering - even if you never work as an engineer you learn a problem solving methodology that you can use anywhere. Then load up on business / arts courses as electives - maybe even minor in one.

This is from an aero/astro engineer who worked as an engineer 6 months of my career and 5 as a field engineer testing and fixing power plants.

Now as a consultant doing strategy work (MBA helped here) What classes have helped me the most - those that taught me how to write; speak (I did competitive extemporaneous and impromptu public speaking in HS and college); and solve problems.

Most of all, take stuff you enjoy.

As for the gear; go with glass. You can always upgrade the body, and in a year or two the 5D will be more affordable and you'll have the glass to make it right. Personally, when I made the switch from film to crop I never noticed the difference; but then again I don't do landscapes.

If you really want a FF for landscape; consider a used film camera. That will let you experiment with FF at a reasonable price plus if you develop and print you'll learn the traditional aspects of the craft as well. Once you've run a few rolls of film through the camera you can decide if a FF digital is a must. Plus; if you bank the $2K you'll have even more when you decide to go FF; and teh 5D price won't grow anywhere near the interest rate on a CD.


It's in my opinion that engineers should have to work in the field for 5-10 years, before they can engineer anything. I swear, I've seen it all in the field. Either engineers aren't that bright OR they are extremely bright, and they just want to torture the tradesmen :P

MBA's aren't very useful anymore. My fiance just graduated from IUP with a degree in accounting, and I was looking at the MDA graduates. All but 5 were from somewhere in the middle East. I guess the degree does a lot over there, but when the MBA boom happened here, everyone got them and now they are a dime a dozen. It seems if you have an MBA, to make it marketable you have to have something else with it.

As for speaking and writing, I think these are the single most over-looked items in any education. I know I'm littered with typos and grammatical errors, so I shouldn't cast any stones. I am however amazed at the amount of graduates with poor lingual skills. Graduates who cannot form a sentence.

Took it way off topic, and even though I voted glass once, I'll vote it again!

Don't get caught up in "I have to have the next body" marketing ploy. Your limiting factor is your glass. Bodies come and go every 18 months or so and your 40D is an excellent camera. I would suggest moving from the 70-200 f/4 to the 2.8. You could save a little by going with the non IS version, I have used mine for years with no issues concerning IS. The Sigma 12-24 is a great wide angle and works great on both crop and FF bodies. Glass is an investment, bodies are an expense.

Skip the 5d, sell the XT, the 18-55, 28-135 and buy a nice wide angle (it seems you've got a hankerin' for wide) and whatever other glass entices you.

The 40d is a great camera and upgrading to the 5d won't magically make better pictures (well, thats a lie because I love the look of 5d files, but still - $2000 in glass will make better pictures then a 5d with an 18-55).

You're the kind of customer I'd like to have if I ever ran a consumer commodity business

There are plenty of lenses that work great on APS-C bodies and frankly the only reason I'd ever want a 5D would be to ideally pair up with a lens like the 24-70 f2.8 or a TS-E 24mm (on which it would actually perform as a wide-angle). Lenses well suited to APS-C bodies (in terms of convenient, typical zoom focal length ranges) are things like the 17-55 IS, the 10-22mm, and of course all of canon's nice L telephotos, macro lenses, etc.

I think you've got a bad case of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). You just "upgraded" and have probably been disappointed to learn that the new camera does exactly what the old one does, just in a slightly different way. The 5D will be no different; it's just another very-slightly-different DSLR. Go buy a cheap medium format camera on ebay or something to settle down the GAS. I suggest a Lubitel 166-B. You'll only spend $30, and it will be a radically different camera from the ones you already own, thus stimulating you in a way that another fundamentally similar DSLR won't.

Once the insanity has passed you can go back to shooting nice pictures with your 40D and XTi, and maybe add a lens to give you a capability you are lacking.

Wow, well said Walter. I feel that way sometimes and it causes me to want to quit taking photos all together. What a shame that would be.



walter23 wrote:

I think you've got a bad case of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). You just "upgraded" and have probably been disappointed to learn that the new camera does exactly what the old one does, just in a slightly different way. The 5D will be no different; it's just another very-slightly-different DSLR. Go buy a cheap medium format camera on ebay or something to settle down the GAS. I suggest a Lubitel 166-B. You'll only spend $30, and it will be a radically different camera from the ones you already own, thus stimulating you in a way that another fundamentally similar DSLR won't.

Once the insanity has passed you can go back to shooting nice pictures with your 40D and XTi, and maybe add a lens to give you a capability you are lacking.

Thanks every1 for all your help.

I think being a perfectionist sometimes drives me a bit crazy and makes me think too much. In addition, being indecisive doesn't help either...

I think because I've read too many raving gearhead posts on different forums lately about which lens is better, or which camera rocks and is a must have, I lost a little bit what I should be doing, which is taking (awesome) pictures.

I think I ask too much out of my camera and the nature of human greed will never be satisfied even when there is a 5D II or 1d- Mark 4. There will always be something better that comes out and the brand new technology will be old.

So here's my plan for the next year or so:

1. I'll probably major in engineering and it'll be my day time job to pay the bills.
2. I'll probably buy the Tammy 17-50F2.8 and upgrade my 70-200 to a F2.8 IS with the $. I'll sell the 28-135 and the 18-55 to fund the Tammy.
3. I'll take from Kevin's advice and stay 1 body behind the upgrade. If I buy things used and "out of date", I'd never lose any money from buy/sell.


I think one of the greatest quote from a prof. photographer was from a youtube video and it sort of kicked in today after thinking about buying gear too much.

"It's not the camera that makes the photographer. The camera is just a tool, You have to use what's up here (points at head)."

Thanks again every1 and hopefull I will be adding more photos to critique in the forums.

Jerry

RobertLynn wrote:

It's in my opinion that engineers should have to work in the field for 5-10 years, before they can engineer anything. I swear, I've seen it all in the field. Either engineers aren't that bright OR they are extremely bright, and they just want to torture the tradesmen :P



Having been a field engineer try to make work the design engineer's creation I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I'm a recovering GAS-head myself. It's taken me about a half dozen different formats (APS-C digital, 35mm, 4x5, 8x10, 9x12cm, 6x6, 6x4.5, pinhole), even more lenses, and multiple cameras including a couple of home built ones to figure out that they all take perfectly good pictures I'm just glad that only one of them was an expensive DSLR (the 4x5 comes in close at ~$2000 for the setup w/ 2 lenses and accessories, and that's neglecting the $1000 scanner to deal with sheet film).



zcline wrote:
Wow, well said Walter. I feel that way sometimes and it causes me to want to quit taking photos all together. What a shame that would be.



walter23 wrote:

I think you've got a bad case of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). You just "upgraded" and have probably been disappointed to learn that the new camera does exactly what the old one does, just in a slightly different way. The 5D will be no different; it's just another very-slightly-different DSLR. Go buy a cheap medium format camera on ebay or something to settle down the GAS. I suggest a Lubitel 166-B. You'll only spend $30, and it will be a radically different camera from the ones you already own, thus stimulating you in a way that another fundamentally similar DSLR won't.

Once the insanity has passed you can go back to shooting nice pictures with your 40D and XTi, and maybe add a lens to give you a capability you are lacking.

Upgrade your glass. The 40D is plenty for what you're doing right now. Good glass will hold its value, bodies will always decline.

And... with the rising speculation of the 5D2, you may be able to find a good deal on a used 5D if you really need it.