My son just got his HS yearbook yesterday and I my husband asked me this morning, "hey honey, remeber that photo you took of Jamie avoiding getting hit by a softball? " (she plays softball for the HS). I said yes, he then tells me "I think is in the yearbook". And I am thinking no way! so I look at the JV softball section, and the 2 page layout contains all of my pictures, every single one of them.

How did they get it you ask? well, I made a CD as a gift for the coach a while back, and she most have given them to the school. What did I get for all my hard work? not even a thank you. I am so upset about this, they are making money selling these books, heck, I paid for mine. They even misspelled my daugther's name twice

What would you do or think in my place?

MCM

See this thread, it sounds similar:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/644496

I was on yearbook staff my senior year of high school. I can tell you this, for a class that was made up of 80% of the cheer leading squad, some volleyball players, and an extreme lack of real testosterone you should be thank full you got your son got a yearbook at all. While the classmates were nice to look at they were a night mare to work with. The class was extremely uneducated in photoshop, and illustrator and the "editors" were all buddies who were very stuck up and would rather use the class for a study hall.

It is also amazing what a full color yearbook costs to publish. If I remember right it was something like over $70,000. More than likely the school is not making any money on this and they are actually taking a loss.

They used some of my images and other people got the credit. Also no one understood photography or had the gear like I did yet they wondered why my pictures were all sharp and the color was good.

About the only thing you can do is contact the teacher or administrator who is in charge of the yearbook. The books are printed and there is nothing you can really do now. At best they will offer you a refund. In the future either do not give away your images or watermark them and make them smaller.

If it wont hurt your sons future of playing for the coach I might send them a letter on your company letter head that you gave the cd to him as with an agreement that the photos would only be used as memory of the year and they were not to be reprinted or used without your written consent especially not for mass reprint in a book that charges money for. Inform him that he wont be getting photos next year or whatever. The key is to be professional and let him know that he has broken your trust and your not happy. If your a pro tell him what that image would of sold for too.

Hope this helps.

Jmiller wrote:
If it wont hurt your sons future of playing for the coach I might send them a letter on your company letter head that you gave the cd to him as with an agreement that the photos would only be used as memory of the year and they were not to be reprinted or used without your written consent especially not for mass reprint in a book that charges money for...

If nothing else, a well worded cease-and-desist letter may teach these pimple-faced, snot-nosed kids a valuable lesson. This isn't a joke, life isn't a game - there are rules and laws, and consequences for wrong decisions. After all, isn't high school supposed to be about learning?

A cease and desist letter? Riiiiiiight.

For the most part, Jmiller is right...these aren't well-run, finely-tuned marketing/publishing companies we're talking about. They are teenagers. In high school.

My experience has been rather positive. Many of the students try to do a good job, but let me emphasize again...they are teenagers. They are in high school. It's a little drastic to assume they are maliciously trying to rip off or take advantage of the OP by using his images. Chances are, they just don't know any better. Some coach gave them a CD of images and said "use these". They used them. Doesn't make it right but let's keep things in perspective here.

IMO, there a couple of problems with this scenario: 1) a photographer gives someone a CD of images without trusting that person knows what can/can't be done with those images. I'd say if you give images so freely, ya gotta be willing to accept the consequences that might come from that approach; 2) if anyone wants to be upset toward anyone in this example, it should probably the coach. Again, I'd bet money the yearbook was asking around for certain photos and the coach thought, "hey, I've got a CD full of those kinds of images" and gave them to the YP staff.

Sending letters (or emails), IMO, is lame. Call or personally visit the coach in question and ask how the yearbook got the images. Or, chalk it up as a lesson and think carefully about giving away a CD of images in the future.

Lesson learned, absolutely!!!! I am already making changes, no more freebies, unless is all spelled out as to what you can and can't do with my images.

Looking into watermarking and other things as well.

Believe me, this won't be happening again. Thank you all

MCM

I get ask by my son's high school to use photos that I have taken all the time---for newsletters, yearbook, etc. I have never turned them down, but they have always ask and said thanks. The way I look at it, a lot of parents volunteer their time for many different activities, some that benefit my son.

In the end I guess it may depend on the size of the school, their financial resources, and more importantly, what your relationship is with the school and any agreements/contracts between the school and yourself regarding your services/photographs.

I am on my yearbook staff as well. Infact, I just shot our championship game today. I've have not and will not get paid a dime, although my name will appear in the YB. No one I know gets paid and it will stay that way. Think about it. If some kid makes money from the school for taking pictures, everyone will submit their P&S pictures and ask to get paid.

Nick, I understand what you are saying, what upset me was the fact that I found out about this by purchasing the yearbook myself................... not a single thanks and to top it off, my kid's name was misspelled twice on the same page

MCM

Yeah, I defiantly see where your coming from. My name is spelled Nicolaus, and every single year book I have been in, they have spelled it wrong.

They should have atleast gave you one for free or something though...

Seems to me that this is the perfect opportunity for a professional photographer to visit this school and give a talk on their profession and Copyright to this class. These teenagers can't be guided in the process of this books creation properly unless the Teachers and Faculty understand the process and business themselves.

I don’t advocate a threatening legal letter, but I think not taking the opportunity to set the record straight and educate everyone involved would be a real shame. It may just prevent someone from having their work appropriated in the future when these teenagers are out in the working world.

Best regards

Rick

An acceptable practice, as you gave away the pictures it's natural to assume they could use them in their publications, you should be flattered, you made a give after all, don't let this blacken your soul.

It's not inappropriate use and it promotes your son, spelling is always difficult, even when I send in the correct spelling, someone thinks I've made a mistake and will change it.

What should you do ~~ run around to all the neighbours and gloat about your son and his prominence in the yearbook

MC Mullins wrote: well, I made a CD as a gift for the coach a while back, and she most have given them to the school. MCM

They should have at least acknowledged you in the book and maybe even given you a free year book.

You're taking this too seriously. It's a high school yearbook..............
You gave the pictures away, what did you expect?

Scott Sewell wrote:
A cease and desist letter? Riiiiiiight.

Sending letters (or emails), IMO, is lame. Call or personally visit the coach in question and ask how the yearbook got the images. Or, chalk it up as a lesson and think carefully about giving away a CD of images in the future.

Osai wrote:
You're taking this too seriously. It's a high school yearbook..............
You gave the pictures away, what did you expect?

I disagree. Attitudes like these are why the younger generations are growing up thinking things like Napster, Limewire (or whatever the latest music "sharing" program of the day is called) are perfectly acceptable. Why is it that so much money is being spent by the entertainment industry (music, movies, videos, etc) on copyright protection litigation and security technology? How often do we hear - on this board alone - about photos/website content being used without an owners permission?

A good lesson is what these kids need, not just another pass from adults who are supposed to be setting the example. What happens when one of these kids get into college and gets caught up in a music pirating lawsuit (all too common these days)? Why not teach them that lesson now? Also, while some may try to downplay the incident, this goes further than a simple case of someone downloading music for personal use. This is a case where content was used in a commercial, for-profit venture without the owners consent (no matter how you spin it).

And no, a well worded letter is not a threat, it is exercising your rights as a copyright owner. IMO, if you were to try to meet with them in person (assuming that could be done as they have now graduated) that could be perceived as a threat or intimidation, provoking at the very least an "I don't give a darn - who are you to lecture me - get out of my face" teenage attitude or, at worse an angry reaction from over-protective parents. I personally would advise against face-to-face contact (confrontation). Not to say this needs to be made into a Supreme Court case, or referred to a fancy Madison Avenue Law Firm, but putting things in writing is standard business, legal, and CYA practice. It is not lame.

Cease and desist It's a YEARBOOK...how many printings do you think they do?

Unless I missed something above, could it be that the YB staff wasn't even aware they were your pictures? Maybe the coach passed them on without telling them they were taken by you. If so, I'd be all over the coach even more so.

eos-m42guy wrote:
Unless I missed something above, could it be that the YB staff wasn't even aware they were your pictures? Maybe the coach passed them on without telling them they were taken by you. If so, I'd be all over the coach even more so.

Which is a valid point.

If you, or I, or anyone else were to put together some kind of photo book, which was intended FOR SALE in the public arena, you’d be darn sure to verify the photos had clear copyrights or you have written permission from the owner. Doesn’t matter if you are getting the photos off the web, from a CD, direct from the photographer, etc. Doing so is simply basic common sense and CYA.

SO, if the yearbook staff does have a signed release from the Coach, then that’s a copyright violation, pure and simple. Coach - busted. If they don’t have a signed waiver on file, then they failed to do their due diligence, but it’s still a copyright violation.

Now, here’s the rub: I can guarantee that whatever professional studio they used to take all of the individual student portraits would have required some kind of written agreement to provide all of that content for publishing. Therefore, the YB staff can’t plead ignorance about copyright laws.

Good luck at collecting whatever 'compensation' is generally appropriate for the one-time use of a few photos in a hs yearbook. By the way, do you have releases for any other kids that appeared in the photos? A contract with the school to photograph on their property(if the events took place there)? When you gave the coach the cd, did you stipulate the conditions and use for the photos?

Look at it this way-you helped them out. And, maybe if others see your photos it will open other opportunities for you.

Spin City wrote:
Seems to me that this is the perfect opportunity for a professional photographer to visit this school and give a talk on their profession and Copyright to this class. These teenagers can't be guided in the process of this books creation properly unless the Teachers and Faculty understand the process and business themselves.

I don’t advocate a threatening legal letter, but I think not taking the opportunity to set the record straight and educate everyone involved would be a real shame. It may just prevent someone from having their work appropriated in the future when these teenagers are out in the working world.

Best regards

Rick


Brilliant. Best idea yet.

Wow, EOS, great attitude about teenagers. Nice job, too, of lumping them all into the "attitude", "pimple-faced" or "snot-nosed" categories. Sheesh. I would guess you're either not a parent or your own kids were like you've described all others. Too bad you've evidently never seen the good side of teenagers...like those who volunteer to go to third-world countries over the summer, or who maintain straight A's or those who are leaders in their churches and schools. But enough of being a proud parent to two teenagers who don't have pimple faces or snotty noses.

The bottom line is, the OP gave away his images and they ended up being used in a yearbook. Hmm...let's see...that would mean an adult photographer gave the images to an adult coach, who then somehow got them to the teenagers on the yearbook staff. My guess is the teenagers on the YB staff are advised by an adult teacher who evidently hasn't taught the kids about use of images like this? Anyone else seeing a common thread here?

Maybe before we start tossing in the towel on teenagers and blatantly labeling them all as losers, we might be well served to take a good hard look in our mirrors before we walk out of the house each morning.

Scott Sewell wrote:
Wow, EOS, great attitude about teenagers. Nice job, too, of lumping them all into the "attitude", "pimple-faced" or "snot-nosed" categories. Sheesh. I would guess you're either not a parent or your own kids were like you've described all others. Too bad you've evidently never seen the good side of teenagers...like those who volunteer to go to third-world countries over the summer, or who maintain straight A's or those who are leaders in their churches and schools. But enough of being a proud parent to two teenagers who don't have pimple faces or snotty noses.

The bottom line is, the OP gave away his images and they ended up being used in a yearbook. Hmm...let's see...that would mean an adult photographer gave the images to an adult coach, who then somehow got them to the teenagers on the yearbook staff. My guess is the teenagers on the YB staff are advised by an adult teacher who evidently hasn't taught the kids about use of images like this? Anyone else seeing a common thread here?

Maybe before we start tossing in the towel on teenagers and blatantly labeling them all as losers, we might be well served to take a good hard look in our mirrors before we walk out of the house each morning.

Hmmm…

The purpose of this discussion is to provide some suggestions to help another photographer out of a dilemma. Several different lines of action have been offered. Clearly, some agree with one course, others favor a different approach. People have different opinions - that is the whole point of asking a question in a public forum.

Your “solution” however is to launch into a tirade, slinging personal insults at a fellow FM member and his family. That helps solve the problem…how…?

Who is it exactly that has “issues” here?

EOS up North wrote:
Scott Sewell wrote:
Wow, EOS, great attitude about teenagers. Nice job, too, of lumping them all into the "attitude", "pimple-faced" or "snot-nosed" categories. Sheesh. I would guess you're either not a parent or your own kids were like you've described all others. Too bad you've evidently never seen the good side of teenagers...like those who volunteer to go to third-world countries over the summer, or who maintain straight A's or those who are leaders in their churches and schools. But enough of being a proud parent to two teenagers who don't have pimple faces or snotty noses.

The bottom line is, the OP gave away his images and they ended up being used in a yearbook. Hmm...let's see...that would mean an adult photographer gave the images to an adult coach, who then somehow got them to the teenagers on the yearbook staff. My guess is the teenagers on the YB staff are advised by an adult teacher who evidently hasn't taught the kids about use of images like this? Anyone else seeing a common thread here?

Maybe before we start tossing in the towel on teenagers and blatantly labeling them all as losers, we might be well served to take a good hard look in our mirrors before we walk out of the house each morning.

Hmmm…

The purpose of this discussion is to provide some suggestions to help another photographer out of a dilemma. Several different lines of action have been offered. Clearly, some agree with one course, others favor a different approach. People have different opinions - that is the whole point of asking a question in a public forum.

Your “solution” however is to launch into a tirade, slinging personal insults at a fellow FM member and his family. That helps solve the problem…how…?

Who is it exactly that has “issues” here?



"If nothing else, a well worded cease-and-desist letter may teach these pimple-faced, snot-nosed kids a valuable lesson. This isn't a joke, life isn't a game - there are rules and laws, and consequences for wrong decisions. After all, isn't high school supposed to be about learning?"

Who's slinging the first insults here? I have to agree with Scott here. He shouldn't have insulted your family...but you're slinging insults at a whole generation. Geeez folks...it's a YEARBOOK!!..not Time magazine. Cease-and-desist?...it's a YEARBOOK!..Did anyone consider that the OP was complaining just to tell everyone that she got published? What's that old saying?...bragging or complaining? Would a photo credit help? Who looks at photo credits in a YEARBOOK? This is a Molehill-Mountain situation. I really would be surprised if any ill intent were involved. Everyone should calm down and do a reality check.

Think of it as a "teachable moment." The yearbook has an advisor, the advisor has an administrator. The yearbook also has a publisher. All of those people are supposed to be professsionals, some hold advanced degres and certificates.

Let's start with the publishers. They should be providing guidance to the staff and advisor about what is and isn't acceptable practice when it comes to getting material for the yearbook. I wouldn't hesitate to send them a letter. They should be wary of unauthorized use of copyrighted material and even if most schools are unsophisticated or most "parent" sources aren't savvy, that's no excuse for them not to use due diligence. Few, if any, photographers would give a pass to various retailers, processors, printers, etc., when they copy "professional" material without authorization. I doubt you will get a real satisfying answer but if you then spread around the name of the slack publisher (to professional photographic asociations, etc.), it might be a part of a trail that does eventually create a pattern of abuses.

Teachers and administrators are aware of copyright laws, if not, they should be. Schools have gotten into trouble from use of copyrighted videos, for copying music, for making clasroom sets or materials not approved for that kind of distribution or use. Texts and other supplementary materials are almost always marked as to their copyright status and if copying is authorized.

It's not always completely cut and dried. "Educational" use is one of the factors in determining "fair use." But I'd agree that use in a yearbook is probably not going to pass the fair use tests.

The problem you and the staff have is that they got the images from a third party, one who is not necessarily likely to have been aware of the issues. If the staff (and advisor) wasn't checking and asking for some kind of clearance when accepting submittals, they may have some blame in this. But while that might be "best practices" in a real publishing concern, it's probably not anything like the madhouse that goes into putting together many yearbooks.

And the images were passed to the coach without any kind of guidance as to the kinds of usages. While there is a rather well known source for "business advice" who suggests (IMO wrongly) that one need not give written guidance nor use contracts when passing on images, due to the potential for causing confusion and creating a legal mess because of what was written, much, if not all of this could have been avoided if you had acutally advised the coach as to what would or would not be acceptable uses.

So yes, there are some things you can do. Contact the school. I doubt they want to be in a position where the yearbook staff is not familiar with copyright issues. But take it to them as an opportunity to learn something and don't treat as a huge world ending event.

Craig Gillette wrote:
Think of it as a "teachable moment." The yearbook has an advisor, the advisor has an administrator. The yearbook also has a publisher. All of those people are supposed to be professsionals, some hold advanced degres and certificates.

Let's start with the publishers. They should be providing guidance to the staff and advisor about what is and isn't acceptable practice when it comes to getting material for the yearbook. I wouldn't hesitate to send them a letter. They should be wary of unauthorized use of copyrighted material and even if most schools are unsophisticated or most "parent" sources aren't savvy, that's no excuse for them not to use due diligence. Few, if any, photographers would give a pass to various retailers, processors, printers, etc., when they copy "professional" material without authorization. I doubt you will get a real satisfying answer but if you then spread around the name of the slack publisher (to professional photographic asociations, etc.), it might be a part of a trail that does eventually create a pattern of abuses.

Teachers and administrators are aware of copyright laws, if not, they should be. Schools have gotten into trouble from use of copyrighted videos, for copying music, for making clasroom sets or materials not approved for that kind of distribution or use. Texts and other supplementary materials are almost always marked as to their copyright status and if copying is authorized.

It's not always completely cut and dried. "Educational" use is one of the factors in determining "fair use." But I'd agree that use in a yearbook is probably not going to pass the fair use tests.

The problem you and the staff have is that they got the images from a third party, one who is not necessarily likely to have been aware of the issues. If the staff (and advisor) wasn't checking and asking for some kind of clearance when accepting submittals, they may have some blame in this. But while that might be "best practices" in a real publishing concern, it's probably not anything like the madhouse that goes into putting together many yearbooks.

And the images were passed to the coach without any kind of guidance as to the kinds of usages. While there is a rather well known source for "business advice" who suggests (IMO wrongly) that one need not give written guidance nor use contracts when passing on images, due to the potential for causing confusion and creating a legal mess because of what was written, much, if not all of this could have been avoided if you had acutally advised the coach as to what would or would not be acceptable uses.

So yes, there are some things you can do. Contact the school. I doubt they want to be in a position where the yearbook staff is not familiar with copyright issues. But take it to them as an opportunity to learn something and don't treat as a huge world ending event.

I'd take this molehill to the Supreme Court!!! You're right, these people should be taught a lesson. If we used waterboarding in these cases...there would be a lot less infringement.