I happen to live in a state that allows law abiding citizens to carry handguns in a concealed fashion. My question is actually not related to the handgun as much as it is related to photography. This question most likely has a VERY limited audience on this board. What I am looking for are CURRENT/PAST concealed handgun license holders that have use their camera bags for carrying both camera and guns. Rather than carry my gun using traditional manner (inside belt holster) I thought it would be easier carrying the gun inside the camera bag. Has anyone had any experience using the two together? I know we have a fair amount of gun owners on the forum, and I'm wondering what others have done in this area. Are there any bags you guys found useful for carrying the two? I'm thinking a shoulder style of bag would be the best choice (I currently have back packs), as it would give quick access to the contents of the bags.

I know this may be a touchy subject that might get the moderators a bit nervous, but I truly feel that this is a legitimate photography related question and is well within the confines of the rules of this forum.


Why am I asking this? Well, I often go on photog expeditions by myself, often to isolated places that many may not feel comfortable going to. I have several thousands dollars worth of gear with me, and immediately become a target for best case, theft, worst case bodily injury. If allowed the right to carry personal protection (whatever is legal, firearm, pepper spray, mace, taser, etc) with me, I whole heartedly will utilize my rights.

I have a larger waist pack that I carried my 20D & a 24-70L in with just enough room for my USP as well...Don't have the 20D any more and the 1D series just don't work with that bag...now I have a Crumpler 7 mil home for this...and can get more in as well (camera gear)

I wouldn't - carry in the camera bag. Although the "photographer's vest" is called the "Shoot me first!" vest in some circles due to the ease with which a vest can be used to conceal or contain a firearm..

First off, that means you can't put the bag down and walk away from it even a little - you've now made the bag even more valuable to a snatcher and you haven't got the weapon, can't pass it off to someone else for convenience, and depending on where you are may mean you might have to be rooting around in the bag with it open to other people's inspection unless you further conceal under flaps, in pockets, etc. Not that you aren't apt to pay attention to the bag but it greatly increases the difficulty in working with it.

The camera bags I've seen tend to be designed around keeping the contents secure. Most aren't designed for the kind of quick retrieval and presentation that you'd need in an emergency.

Depending on the laws in your state, there may be places that you can't take the concealed weapon but may need/want the camera gear. That may mean you have to leave the bag or consider the problems involved in transferring the weapon to another place discretely.

Another disadvantage of keeping it with the camera gear some times and not others is you move away from having a habitual place to draw from, you've got to start thinking about where is it this time, you may have trouble deciding when or if you can drop the "property" and avoid the physical confrontation, and you may be increasing the ease with which you can be disarmed.

So while it may be a possible place, it may not be the best choice. Obviously a lot depends on the locations, the kind of gear involved, etc.

Good advice. But, I hear Crumpler is about to release their new "Gray Bar Hotel" shoulder bag.

what mister gillette said is sound advice.

Craig Gillette wrote:
I wouldn't - carry in the camera bag. Although the "photographer's vest" is called the "Shoot me first!" vest in some circles due to the ease with which a vest can be used to conceal or contain a firearm..

First off, that means you can't put the bag down and walk away from it even a little - you've now made the bag even more valuable to a snatcher and you haven't got the weapon, can't pass it off to someone else for convenience, and depending on where you are may mean you might have to be rooting around in the bag with it open to other people's inspection unless you further conceal under flaps, in pockets, etc. Not that you aren't apt to pay attention to the bag but it greatly increases the difficulty in working with it.

The camera bags I've seen tend to be designed around keeping the contents secure. Most aren't designed for the kind of quick retrieval and presentation that you'd need in an emergency.

Depending on the laws in your state, there may be places that you can't take the concealed weapon but may need/want the camera gear. That may mean you have to leave the bag or consider the problems involved in transferring the weapon to another place discretely.

Another disadvantage of keeping it with the camera gear some times and not others is you move away from having a habitual place to draw from, you've got to start thinking about where is it this time, you may have trouble deciding when or if you can drop the "property" and avoid the physical confrontation, and you may be increasing the ease with which you can be disarmed.

So while it may be a possible place, it may not be the best choice. Obviously a lot depends on the locations, the kind of gear involved, etc.

Craig,

I guess I should have said this in the original post, but I rarely put my bag down (I have a backpack so at times I forget it's back there). Personally, when you are toting $4-5K worth of gear around, I don't feel comfortable setting it down while I'm shooting (regardless if I have a gun in there). If there is a situation where I think I will be disconnected from my bag, then I will resort to an IWB/OWB type holster and forego storing the firearm in the bag.

Your second point about camera bag design is exactly why I'm asking this. I realize that most bags are designed for quick access, but rather secure storage. I was wanting feedback to see which bags offered quick access to a compartment, if any.

In my state, ANY citizen can keep a loaded firearm in their vehicle, license or not (there are some restrictions, but the overwhelming majority can). This means that I can securely store the firearm in a locked box in my truck if I am going to a prohibited carry location.

One of my main concerns is that while I shoot, I tend to squat, bend over, lay on my stomach, etc to get a shot I'm looking for. While in those position, my shirt will often ride up and expose the gun. I do not want to intentionally advertise my firearm to the broader public, creating any sense of panic. My thoughts where that keeping the gun inside the camera case would prevent this.

Thanks for the feeback.

I don't' own guns, but I have seen them on lots of movies
How about using the holster that allows you to conceal your gun at the leg, but you have to wear long pant though, or that wraps around your chest inside your shirt.

Get a smaller gun I'm not a gun guy, but something small should work to kept you protected and not be visable.

If you live in a place that is so dangerous that you feel you must carry a gun, maybe you should move.

On the other hand, if people didn't carry guns perhaps their society wouldn't be so violent and dangerous. And this is a photography forum - personally I find this topic inappropriate.

Then don't participate. It's a dangerous fallacy to blame "things" for behavior. That's like blaming the availability of cameras for kiddie porn. It leads goverments to try to disarm their citizens and does nothing to address the root problems.

I carry my concealed firearm in a small fanny pack that is designed for such. It is worn in the front and when carrying a camera bag, it appears to be just more camera equipment. It stays concealed no matter how I bend or stoop, plus I can wear whatever I want and still be legally concealed.

I’m in total agreement with Mr. Gillette – keep your firearm and camera equipment separate.


Ed

You aren't locked into the same carry method all the time, any more than you are locked into a single camera bag. Backpacks are capacious but slow. Shoulder or waist bags/fanny packs may not carry the gear, or may not be suited to crawling in the mud. Disclosure of the weapon, even accidentally, may be a big problem legally, especially in an urban or "sensitive" environment. Out in west boondocks, maybe no one would care.

Keep in mind that the legal aftermath of a use of deadly force is seldom simple or inexpensive. There is a lot to be said for avoidance. That's why insurance is a good idea for the gear. Or being in groups.

DIS Ottawa wrote:
If you live in a place that is so dangerous that you feel you must carry a gun, maybe you should move.

On the other hand, if people didn't carry guns perhaps their society wouldn't be so violent and dangerous. And this is a photography forum - personally I find this topic inappropriate.

Very helpful post, maybe people who like to leave their security and safety in the hands of others should avoid posting in this discussion. Personally I normally just carry my S&W 642 (snubby 38) in a mika pocket holster in my front pants pocket. As long as you don't wear tight pants you can't tell there is anything in your pockets, yet it is very secure and exceptionally fast to draw from since there aren't any clothes impeding your draw. The other benefit is if you feel threatened you can easily get your hand on your gun and ready to draw without anyone realizing it (something I've had to do a couple times) , it just looks like your reaching in your pocket.

I've got to say, this made me laugh. A photographer with a handgun in his bag, now I have heard it all. Isnt the developed world wonderful.

Alex

I dont think this is an inappropriate topic at all. Just because someone carries a gun for protection... it doesn't mean it's going to be used on PEOPLE Being a canuck it's a bit more difficult for me to get permits to carry a hand gun on me. But in many areas I hike to shoot I wouldnt be caught out without my .22 rifle or a small shotgun. The main danger I come across is bears or wolves. Wolves usually aren't a problem (only once so far, it was rabid), but recently bears have become very dangerous as people feed them at the dumps and parks so they're getting very brave approaching humans.. especially if they smell my lunch in my pack. I've never had to actually shoot AT one but a few shots in the air generally get my point across. The time I came across a rabid wolf I would have been in serious danger if I hadn't been carrying a rifle.

As for having a gun to defend yourself from people... well I dont want to spark a debate here but let's face it, it's not a perfect world so we can't think about it that way.. the bad guys are going to have guns no matter what kind of laws there are against them and photojournalists are very often in less than savory places. I grew up in a hunting family full of very responsible gun owners so I don't see the problem with a properly trained and properly licensed person with a head on their shoulders carrying a gun.

plus.. let's face it... on a week long camping trip a .22 comes in handy when you're sick of eating canned beans and spam

PS - I'd like to say though I am not a fan of sport/trophy hunting, I grew up with "you better eat what you shoot"... now I go a step further... I get to shoot things twice then eat'em. But I'm pretty sure the pheasant population is very happy I'm alot more accurate with a 400mm than with a .22

If a gun is in a bag then it isn't really close enough to get to in the kind of emergency that you might need a gun is it? If it is close enough then what is the difference between that or a holster or fanny pack?

Look for a better holster and keep the gun on your body at all times, for your safety and that of others.
They always say keep business (gun) and pleasure (SLR) separate.

The snubby and pocket holster arusher suggests sounds ideal, or maybe a shoulder rig. I'm a knife man when in the wilds, no handguns allowed here :-(. I always have my knife in the same place, if I need it I know where it is, it's just instinct now (in the heat of the moment instinct/reflex will be all you have).

Stay safe,
J

Edited by 200231786 on May 12, 2008 at 07:40 PM GMT

200231786 wrote:
They always say keep busines (gun) and pleasure (SLR) separate.


haha thats classic

If security is an issue, there are various other methods one can use to diffuse the situation. A lot of police forces that patrol heavy ghettos in NYC revamped their approach to dealing with problem individuals in these problem areas. What you get is less shoot outs and more peaceful diffusion of tense situations.

Diligence, combat-oriented martial arts, non-lethal personnel control weapons (mace, tasers), simple common sense, etc. go a long way.

People assume that having a gun means your safe. This is not true at all. In most situations, the opposing individual is naturally already afraid - pulling a gun on someone only gives them more reason to shoot at you. The goal of security is NOT to be shot at and pointing a gun at an irked and adrenaline high assailant isn't always the best way to go. Moreover, in a combat situation, there are no guarantees. You having a gun in your hand in one moment does not mean you'll still have it 2 seconds later - also, it doesn't mean that, God Forbid, the gun does go off, that it hits the target you are aiming to hit.

Also, there is lots of training that goes behind a gun. Buying a gun and then carrying a gun and not having trained in using a gun is stupidity in its purest form.

Security can be discussed in 2 ways. I have been discussing security of human life - for you, the hypothetical assailant, and any nearby civilians (human life is human life). However, if discussing security of your gear - buy good insurance and make good choices.

Establishing security is more complex than just "packing heat".

I second (or third, or fourth) the recommendation to NOT try to carry in your camera bag, for the same reason I try to discourage women from carrying guns in their purses. Even if it is always on your person, the bag will be a target for thieves. If someone tries to nab it, at best you're in a struggle to get your gun. At worst, they have it instead of you.

Something like a fanny pack sounds like a good option for what you need. There's also a product called a "Safepacker" made by The Wilderness Tactical Products. It's like a fanny pack, but doesn't look like a fanny pack. It looks more like a big PDA case that can be adapted to multiple methods of carry. A small gun in a pocket holster is another reasonable option.

The bottom line is you want something you can get to quickly if your life it imminently threatened. If your life is not imminently threatened, leave it where it is. But if you took the class and got the license, you already know that.

Maxpedition fat boy bag can hold lenses and also has a spot specifically made for a handgun.

http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=31&IDCategory=4

Get a J-frame S&W wheelgun and a Kramer pocket holster. ( I have the S&W 442)

5 shots of 158gr JHP .38 +p and a speedloader with another 5 rounds should get you away from any threat.

I call it my American Express card. I don't leave home without it.

It looks like a wallet when sitting in my front pocket.

I love this thread. I guess going out on a shoot has a double meaning for you?

Savas K wrote:
Maxpedition fat boy bag can hold lenses and also has a spot specifically made for a handgun.

http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=31&IDCategory=4


the colossus is even better becaues it doesn't require it to be unzippered to access the weapon. in addition it can go either righty or lefty.