If you'll permit me to rehash the "which focus screen" issue...

I've googled, read forums, tests, etc etc and still - I'm looking for confirmation / clarification. I simply cannot find a good comparison between the Katz Eye and Haoda Fu's "3rd generation" alternative. Everything I've read is from quite a while back, presumably from before HF's "3rd gen" screens.

Objective: Getting as close to a MF SLR viewfinder with my 20D.

One of my questions to Katz Eye:
"Can I expect the same bright quality with your screen on my Canon 20D as I was accustomed to on my old cameras?" (I explained having used Canon A-1, Minolta X700, Nikon FE, Hassy with Beattie)

.. to which I got a fast response:
"In a word, no. The Canon 20D has a viewfinder that is about half the size (in terms of cross-sectional area) as your 35mm cameras. It also siphons off about 20-30% of the incoming light for use with the AF sensors. The combination of those two factors makes it so that no focusing screen can yield a view as bright as that of your full frame manual focus cameras. The selection of our OptiBrite treatment will provide the best possible balance between viewfinder brightness and focusing acuity and will make a nice improvement over the stock screen, but it will never be as big and bright as your film cameras."

Another question I asked:
"Your site doesn't really mention which screens are "Plus", only that most are. What about the Canon 20D screen? I think that if this is the case, "opti brite" isn't really necessary."

Answer:
"All of the Katz Eye screens for the Canon 20D are of the Plus prism design, which allows them to work with all of your lenses. Unlike traditional prism designs which turn black at f4 and will not work with some lenses, the Plus prism is fully functional with all lenses. The microprism portion of the screen is functional from f1-f5.6 and the split prism portion is functional with virtually all lenses, even very slow f8 mirror lenses. The OptiBrite treatment is entirely separate and relates to the brightness of the matte field - it has no effect on the prism portion of the screen. If you tend to view the scene through apertures f2.8 or faster, the
OptiBrite is of only slight benefit. However if you often view your scene through apertures smaller than f2.8, such as with slower lenses or because of a lack of auto-aperture function, then the OptiBrite treatment can provide a significant improvement in the brightness of the view."

I think that is pretty clear. Except.... I read a lot from folks who have a Haoda, and are "happy". Some went the cheaper route and are "happy" with the Chinese screens.

Since Haoda and KE are getting pretty close in cost - I'd like some last (convincing) arguments for either one.

Sooooo... takers, anyone?

I have the KatzEye and am indeed quite happy with it. Mine is just the "standard" 20D version and works quite well. In playing around using the DOF preview, it took until about f11 or before the prism starts blacking out & shifting your eye a bit can stretch it to about f16--which gets down to pretty much any decent lens will be just fine.

One thing a really like about the KE is that it is a purpose-made piece for the specific camera. The screen is molded with the intent of being installed in a 20D so all the proper OEM-style mount tabs are there. That made it pretty easy to install. The Haoda ones from the web pictures appears to be cut down from some other screen. At the least, it appears to me to not have the same attention to detail in manufacture. One personal thing also is the attitude of the respective companies. IMHO, KE has a more professional attitude (both were participants here in their early days).

Thanks - another positive check under the KE column

Got the KE - and oh man... It's... just.... georgeous....

I actually managed to photograph my daughter with a Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 200mm f4 wide open handheld, and it's focus is sharper than anything I've ever produced before.

Nice to have a proper screen again, isn't it?

Sure is.. btw - if you're upgrading your cam.. drop me a line

heh, why you want my very-well-used 20D? One of these days I want to scrape the money for a 1D Mk II (N) and keep the 20D as backup. Unfortunately there's that annoying mortgage that comes first in line.

Chris -
Now you have opened Pandora's box - again, by mentioning the m2n you're lusting for...
And to use that segue, and Marcel, or anyone else jump in, have you ever had the option to look at the Canon micro-prism or split screens on the 1-series? I, too, long for a "proper" screen. (I just upgraded to a m2n) Of course, no dealer carries those screens in the DC market, so I must buy-and-live-with-it. And then there's Brightscreen - lotsa-dollars. I thought the other two ran afoul of patent infringements...

So asked another way - next week, when you sell Marcel your worn 20d, and spring for the m2n, what screen will you purchase for it?

Take it from a recent convert - sell the 20d. (10d, 30d, 40d, or 50d) and get a good m2n. You will not need a "backup". You will never THINK about the 20d, other than increasingly fond, and forgetful memories - kind of like kids - forget the holy terror, and remember just how sweet they were... There is NOTHING like the 1-series. You cannot prepare yourself for the difference.

Sell it while there is still life left in the 20d for Marcel, and the m2n has few clicks. Time's-a-wastin. Or save a grand and get the mk2.

Emotions, and all joking aside, having a 1.6 camera and a 1.3 camera, with different control layouts will just drive you NUTS. (Trust my shrink on that one...). The m2n is SO different in feel and operation from the 20d that... trust me - it just doesn't work.
Not that the m2n is more "difficult" than the 20d, but the two are just SO different it will be difficult to be to be memory-fast with either the 20d or the m2n.
You'll get used to the things the m2n does in stride, and the 20d is saying what?
The crop factor is another biggie - if both are around your neck at any one point in time. Fuggehtaboutit. With the m2n, you get almost-wide-angle back too! Woo Hoo!

So back to the screen. Which one will you be ordering for your m2n tomorrow?

frank

Part of the itch is that I have experienced the 1D-series (a 1Ds Mk II). My main thought was the AF was simply magic. I do understand the control differences, the 1D was foreign & kept me on my toes during the shoot to figure out how to make it work. I do actually like the crop of the 20D--part of why I want to keep it. I'm also not much of a gear-churner (still have my Minolta 7000i kit, and my purchased-new car is now 14 years & 160k old).

Anyway, once I do upgrade, I'll get whatever the KE is replicating (the split-prism center spot with microprism ring around it).

Thanks, Chris, for the recommendation. I'm slow to analyze and purchase at times. this helps!

I know what you mean - holding on - I still have my Leica M4 I bought new 37 years ago, as well as my 10d. Funny thing about cars - I bought one car from a friend for 8K, put 250,000 miles on the clock, and sold it back to him for $3K.

frank kayser wrote:

Take it from a recent convert - sell the 20d and get a good m2n. You will not need a "backup". You will never THINK about the 20d, other than increasingly fond, and forgetful memories - kind of like kids - forget the holy terror, and remember just how sweet they were... There is NOTHING like the 1-series. You cannot prepare yourself for the difference.

Thanks. Just peachy. Great. Now you've done it - make me want the next toy.

Are you any good at convincing spouses as well?

Marcel VanEerd wrote:
frank kayser wrote:

Take it from a recent convert - sell the 20d and get a good m2n. You will not need a "backup". You will never THINK about the 20d, other than increasingly fond, and forgetful memories - kind of like kids - forget the holy terror, and remember just how sweet they were... There is NOTHING like the 1-series. You cannot prepare yourself for the difference.

Thanks. Just peachy. Great. Now you've done it - make me want the next toy.

Are you any good at convincing spouses as well?


! I've found with my spouse, in particular, that it is far easier to get forgiveness than permission. YMMV.