With all the buzz about the 1DmkIII autofocus debacle I am hearing nothing about how the 1DsmkIII fits into this. If they are just now coming out with the hardware+firmware fix for the 1DmkIII then all the 1DsmkIII's out there are going to need the same corrections no? I have cancelled my 1DsmkIII order until I find out if it is fitted with the same clearly defective autofocus system.

No one knows yet, but there appear not to be widespread reports of focal issues with the 1Ds MkIII, only some sensor alignment issues. Most of us assume that the AF system is shared between the two cameras, but it could be that the necessary differences in the design of the mirror box of the Ds somehow avoided the 'problem', whatever it actually is.

I speculate that there is a reason that the 1Ds MkIII is in such short supply (far worse than any other 1Ds release, as I recall), but that's just me...

If few or any 1DSIII posters are reporting problems then why would anyone assume there are problems Just because they "suppose" that the mechanical, electical and software systems are the same? I'd go on objective evidence rather than suposition myself.

As would I, however given the number of 'happy' MkIII users with apparently flawed cameras, it is entirely possible that the 1Ds MkIII suffers the same fate as the MkIII, perhaps without the initial submirror problem which may have served to open the door of scrutiny upon the 1D MkIII.

One thing is for sure, if there wasn't a significant problem that remained, you can bet that Canon wouldn't be talking about it, so yes, I presume it to be a significant enough issue that they need to fix it.

Before putting down my $8000 I'll weigh every logical supposition carefully since Canon make no big effort to tell us whats going on. The long delays for the DsmkIII may indicate they are correcting the focus problems before shipping. I can only suppose since there is no source of info regarding this from Canon. Not surprising they are silent though. I know when I am deep in troubleshooting mode the most annoying thing I can hear is "well whats wrong?" & "when will you have it fixed?"

If I remember correctly the 1DIII problems manifest them selves during hot temperatures (like in Summer). The 1DsIII was and is being released in November – February. Perhaps the mirror issues will show up later on in the year during the warmer months.
The only problems or issues that I have seen or read about are error99 messages and the lock up
of the 1DsIII and each error99 being worse than the previous, until finally the camera totally locks up.

Update 08Feb2008:

I sent my 1Ds3 to Canon in California ground shipped on Monday, from Seattle. They received it in Thursday and is scheduled to be delivered back to me on Friday. The invoice said that they reworked the DC to DC PCB assembly (resolder it?). Canon received the camera, fixed it and send it back all in one day. It looks to me as if the knew what to look for and were set up to fix in advance of the camera’s arrival. Dave


Final: Canon replaced the camera with a brand new one. End of problems.



Edited by dave miner on Feb 08, 2008 at 09:58 AM GMT

Well, I definately have the same issues with the 1DsM3 as described in the original thread by Jeff. The ghosting is sometimes there and also what was called "fine detail smearing" efect over at Naturescapes.net. I am going to take my camera in on Monday. However, I have not experienced any focus hunting, as reported by some early users of 1DM3's, the tracking is great, but when I look at the images there is no obvious point of focus. That is especially visible when I use a longer burst. I shoot only in AI Servo mode.

I have clearly stated that if they cannot fix the camera I will be demanding my money back. Fortunately Estonia is a small country, where everyone knows everyone, so I am quite confident in my plea. Of course I do not want to give the camera back, because then I'd have to start looking for a 1DsM2, which was my previous camera, but I had to sell it to fill the wallet with money for the new brother.

Anybody tried the firmware fix on the 1Ds3?

I installed firmware 1.0.6 the same day that Canon released it, no problem with the upgrade.

Did it make any difference.....can't tell, I did one studio-session before the upgrade and those files don't show any vertical lines or color cast.

Had a 1D MkII before the 1Ds MkIII and the new camera works great.
AF is superb, no problem tracking BIF, seems to be spot on for sports also, only had time for one session shooting windsurf so far.

I'm also VERY happy with the amount of noise (or lack of) at high ISO. (800, 1600)
Much better than my 1D MkII !

Some of my 1Ds MkIII pictures can be viewed at www.tsfoto.com -> gallery no. 14.

Happy days

The limited availability of the 1DsMIII could be a sign that Canon has recognized a problem and is not making the camera available. Regardless if that is the reason or not, the limited number of them that are being used would make it less likely that any problem would be found. Remember, it was months after the release of the 1DMIII before the issue was really identified.

It may be that 1Ds3 users shoot to a good part different subjects than 1D3 users. Usually, models or landscapes don't run around.

From my limited birding experience with the 1D2N and 1Ds2, compared to roughly the same birding experience with the 1Ds3, I can say that I had far better luck with the 1Ds2 and 1D2N than with the 1Ds3. However, birds make out the bottom 0.01% of my subject matter, so I don't think I am very qualified to say much. Nor will be most 1Ds3 users, I'd say...

stanj wrote:
so I don't think I am very qualified to say much. Nor will be most 1Ds3 users, I'd say...

You're right, but I will not let THAT stop me--by God!!

I shoot birds, and bif's, almost exclusively. My 1DsIiI just rocks. I'm very pleased with it. No worries at all. And the images......ohhhh....the images. When those 21mpixel wonders pop up on my 30in monitor they still set me to gasping. It's a fabulous piece of equipment.

Mine has excellent AF. The best that I have used on any camera. I agree with Johnny, it's a fabulous piece of equipment

Lars Johnsson wrote:
Mine has excellent AF. The best that I have used on any camera. I agree with Johnny, it's a fabulous piece of equipment
totally agreee!!!

From very limited shooting with a new 1DsMkIII I can say that the AF it is a huge improvement over any 1DMkIII's that I owned or used. Instantly observable. The other thing that is immediately observable is the difference is edge detail when shooting JPGs. The 1DMkIII left an obvious line around text on a high contrast background (and I assume other subjects) that softened the image. Almost like an edge blur in PS. This appears to be non-existent with the 1DsMkIII.

While it might be the same general AF system there are numerous areas where it would have to be or could be different. For example, the size difference alone means that many of the parts have to be different even if they serve the same function. Also because of the reduced frame rate the algorithms may be different.

It might not be the best sports camera in the world but the IQ is stunning. There is a noticeable difference between it and a 1DMkIII that will make a real difference if you do larger prints. I have only done a few 13 x 19's so far but there is virtually no degradation between them and an 8 1/2 x 11.

On the downside... my viewfinder and sensor are misaligned by about 1 1/2 degrees and there is substantial dirt, dust and hair-like sh*t in the viewfinder. Neither is acceptable on a camera in this price range. Perfect should be the only acceptable quality for their top-of-the-line camera but it seems that Canon's new motto is "Done is good enough".

Hrow wrote:
The other thing that is immediately observable is the difference is edge detail when shooting JPGs. The 1DMkIII left an obvious line around text on a high contrast background (and I assume other subjects) that softened the image. Almost like an edge blur in PS. This appears to be non-existent with the 1DsMkIII.


If shooting JPG, two cameras need different sharpening setups...

How to you tell if the sensor is misaligned? Do you use a grid focus screen or bubble?

God IM so glad I kept my 1ds2. Saved 4500k and no headaches. Good luck selling the 1ds3 in 3 years. It wont be worth much.

I have not had any issues with my 1DsIII. The AF is a lot better than the 1DsII. I am able to focus in low light conditions without focus hunting. There are situations where I KNOW the 1DsII would have had problems, but the 1DsIII just snaps right into focus with no hunting. I have not yet used AI Servo for moving subjects, so I cannot comment on that.

My 1Ds3 died with Err99 and was in Irvine for a full week. They also redid the connector, and now it's happily alive.

Now at ~20k clicks, I can say that the AF is better than that of the 1D3 I briefly owned last summer, and noticeably better than that of my 1Ds2, at least indoors, where most of my current work happens. One-Shot is head and shoulders above 1Ds2. Peripherial AF point performance is head and shoulders above 1Ds2. Only the one time that I was trying BIF, the AF was not quite that hot compared to my 1Ds2 or 1D2N. Since I don't regularly shoot BIF, I don't care much

madmax200 wrote:
God IM so glad I kept my 1ds2. Saved 4500k and no headaches. Good luck selling the 1ds3 in 3 years. It wont be worth much.

I was in the same camp, but once I upgraded, there is no way I can look back. My biggest gripe about the 1Ds2 was that there was a lot of noise in the shadows at low ISO settings. At ISO 100, the noise in the shadows was very annoying. On the 1DsIII, the low ISO settings provide extremely clean shadow areas. It reminds me of the D30. Detail is superb, and I really like the new menu system, battery system, ability to set the # of bracketed shots, etc. Stepping up to the D30 from point and shoot land was a huge leap, and because of all the changes made, I feel like the jump from the 1DsII to the 1DsIII is a similar leap.

The AF systems in the 1D2 and 1Ds2 were identical except for an algorithm adjustment to suit the slower maximum frame rate. Canon acknowledged this in one of their documents.

There's no reason to expect the 1D3 and 1Ds3 not to also be twins. That's partly why the AF sensor coverage in the 1Ds3 is relatively smaller than in the 1D3 - it's the same physical size in a larger image size. Just like the 1Ds2 and 1D2.

With far fewer 1Ds3s out there and relatively few of them being used for tracking moving subjects it is to be expected that there will be fewer complaints. Given Canon's recent history of blaming everyone but themselves for their AF system defects it is perfectly reasonable at this early stage to be suspicious of the 1Ds3.

Let others take the risks for a few months if you can, or take them yourself if you must. I've settled on keeping my 1Ds2 and will skip the 3 series completely, but I can afford to do that. There's been too much bad blood and too many 1D3 solutions that needed further solutions for me to have blind faith in the 3 series at this stage, and not enough 1Ds3s have been sold for any problems to be reported yet - especially of they are intermittent and/or not universal, like on the 1D3.

[edit] History shows us that whoever is first to criticise the 1Ds3 will cop a lot of criticism and inuendo from Canon and from fellow FMers. For taht reason alone you can expect some reluctance to be the among the first. Only after a while will people complain and then others will come out of hiding - if indeed there are problems to complain about.

- Alan

ward1066 wrote:
How to you tell if the sensor is misaligned? Do you use a grid focus screen or bubble?


Down and dirty. Line up the edge of the frame on a straight edge and click. I noticed right off the bat that lines I felt should have been straight from the way I shot them weren't and that they were constantly off by about the same amount in the same direction (1.5% clockwise averagish). Did some quick tests and they confirmed it. If it wasn't that 100% are off then I would say it is me but there is a constancy to the problem that defies any other explanation - especially in light of it being a known issue. No big deal but it is annoying.

PS. I don't know if it is the sensor or the focusing screen which is misaligned. Having shot for 15 years with pin-registered Nikons that were critically aligned and accurate to 1/1000 of an inch I feel very comfortable in asserting that one of them is off.

bka20d wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Mine has excellent AF. The best that I have used on any camera. I agree with Johnny, it's a fabulous piece of equipment
totally agreee!!!



+1 here, very very happy, and will sell all my other cameras soon

Very happy. No problems. Here is something I tracked in sunny warm weather...