I will chime in for the 5D as well. The IQ will be better, and you will be able to use your lenses as intended. I have the Sigma 50mm macro, and it is terrific, but you have 2 inches away in order to use it at 1:1. It is a great portrait lens too, but i think you would be better off with a 50 1.4 for general purpose-or even the 1.8, and save a couple hundred right there-it is an excellent lens. Also, try to keep your glass at 2.8 if possible-the autofocus will be better, the viewfinder brighter, and will stop action better. Here is a revision that i think you will love:

5D

16-35 2.8L Mk1 (can be had for about $850 used if you shop around)

50mm f/1.8 or f/1.4

70-200 2.8 (IS if you can afford-some say it is too heavy, but i don't even notice it is there carrying it a whole football game-you can get the IS for 1399 on the B&S right now)

Extension tubes for 70-200 macro


If you do get a 40D, then get a 35mm f/2 as a fast prime-the 50 will be too long for most inside stuff.

Thanks for all the feedback, I really appreciate it.

I've checked out the prices at my local shop and heres the low down (in CDN $ )

40D is $1300
5D is $2500 but there is a $700 canon rebate so its really $1800

That makes it a $500 difference. Now would people who suggest the 40D think if the difference is only 500, its worth going for the 5D ? Is the 5D even with its focus "issues" worth it ?

Obviously, above all else I need a camera with fast and accurate focus (fast enough to catch the kids in action as they run around).


Thanks.

If you get the 40D, I'd highly recommend the 17-55 IS. Just sell it when you go FF. You won't lose much on the sale. And if you buy it now with ther rebates then that's even less of a loss when you sell it down the road.

If you are shooting kids running around, the best method is to use focus and recompose with centerpoint focus, moving the af trigger to the * button on the back of the camera (a custom function-the same way pro sports are shot). In this respect, the 5D will be terrific-fast and accurate. The only supposed problems that occur are when using the other non-cross hair type af points. And yes, it would be worth the difference in price, especially when you see what 16/17mm looks like on FF.

You do realize that to get the $700 rebate you have to purchase two of the listed items or it is a $350 rebate. You may be planning on buying one of the other items, but just in case ...

Click Here

Canon rebates have not always been easy to collect, try a search.

Also suggest going to your local dealer and pressing the shutter release on both cameras in the store to determine if the shutter lag / focus speed difference is something you can tolerate when trying to capture fast moving kids. Take a few pics with each body then take them home and examine them at 100% to see which focuses more accurately.

The excellent 10-22 EF-S lens is just as good, if not better, than 16mm on FF.

TallyHo Films wrote:
That makes it a $500 difference. Now would people who suggest the 40D think if the difference is only 500, its worth going for the 5D ? Is the 5D even with its focus "issues" worth it ?

Obviously, above all else I need a camera with fast and accurate focus (fast enough to catch the kids in action as they run around).


Thanks.
I wouldn't trade my 40D for a 5D, it's that good for my use. I wouldn't get it as my sole camera for the same price as the 40D. Now at some stage I might get a 5D as a second camera, but it wouldn't replace the 40D.

Not sure if I'm in the minority of 40D owners or if they are just drowned out by the 5D owners

IMHO, it's much more important to think if you want FF or 1.6 format. Comes down to asking, are you WA limited, or tele power limited. I love my 5D for WA and maximization of bokeh available at any given framing. I use my 20D when I feel tele limited. I frequently go shooting with both bodies and a wide and medium lens I can trade back and forth to cover a great range. I am considering upgrading my 20D to a 40D to maintain the 1.6 and FF spread, but to equalize the resolution and some other performance qualities.

If you want just one body, go for the format that assists performance in the FL you like... 5D wider, 40D longer.

Im definitely more into the wider and teleconvertors can over come tele power limits (at a price).

I think for me it comes down to how good at focusing is the 5D. some people seems to like it some think its off center focusing is lacking. The thought of spending close to 2000 on a camera that may or may not be good at focusing is a tough choice.....

You won't be dissapointed with the 40D. It does pretty much anything you'd need a camera to do.

Then again, don't forget that cameras are only tools. What's more important is what vision you have in your head and capturing it. Most any DSLR can do this very well these days.

Many of the current photos on my website were taken using the 40D.

Gainesville Wedding Photographer

TallyHo Films wrote:
Im definitely more into the wider and teleconvertors can over come tele power limits (at a price).

I think for me it comes down to how good at focusing is the 5D. some people seems to like it some think its off center focusing is lacking. The thought of spending close to 2000 on a camera that may or may not be good at focusing is a tough choice.....

You pay that amount of money for the FF sensor mostly... The IQ of a 5D is really excellent. Try if you can find some RAW files of both the 5D and 40D. You will notice a difference (at least I did).

You could stick to using the 5D's center AF point and doing some cropping to get the composition you want. You have almost 3MP left to crop in comparison to a 40D...

Good luck with your decision

The technology gap is really narrowing. I can't really think of anything that makes a 2 year old camera "less good" than a current camera from a technology perspective. Differing feature sets? Sure. But those are more marketing driven than anything else. In other words, don't discount the 5D because it is older.

My suggestion would be to wait a couple of weeks and see what pops up at PMA. If not, then I would seriously look at the 5D if you are going to focus on portraits and pets and the 40D if you need a more generalist camera. Ultimately, a 10-22, 24-105 and 70-200 F4 IS combo with that body will make for a VERY nice kit. I would also very seriously look at the Nikon D300. It has some features that I personally find very attractive including the AF system and a much more intelligently designed flash system.

The most important thing? Think about how you are going to use the camera and which body best meets your needs. Anyone one of them can produce exquisite results so don't get too caught up in arguments that one is "better" than another.

Agreed you can get great images from either camera but when in the market to make a purchase i would still go with the best I.Q and so for me it would be the 5D
Shutter lag on the 5D though? I have never heard that before.

Tally,
first of all, the best suggestion I've seen is to rent the 5D and the 40D for a week along with one of the lenses you're considering and try them out. See for yourself whether one is substantially better than the other for what you do.

I've used the 5D for shooting formals at dog shows and it has awesome IQ. I own a 30D and have rented the 40D. The differences between the 30D and 40D were noticeable but not enough to get me to buy the 40D. I find that for what I shoot, the 5D and FF does not offer me a huge advantage.

I own the 70-200 F4L and it's a great lens. I just rented the 70-200 F2.8L IS lens for a week of shooting and it's a greater lens. If you can spring for the IS -- either F4 or F2.8 -- I'd suggest you do it. Buy used if necessary but I think you'll appreciate the IS.

For macro, get the 50mm F1.8 (cheap, sharp) and some extension rings and do some macro. If you find that combination works, stick with it. If you need better IQ or working distance, consider the 100 F2.8 macro. It's awesome.

You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon right now. Both systems are extensive and outstanding. Test drive both and go with what works for you and then don't question your decision. Just shoot and enjoy.

Jim

Marcus Watts wrote:
Agreed you can get great images from either camera but when in the market to make a purchase i would still go with the best I.Q and so for me it would be the 5D
Shutter lag on the 5D though? I have never heard that before.

Depends totally on what one shoots.

Daan B wrote:
TallyHo Films wrote:
Im definitely more into the wider and teleconvertors can over come tele power limits (at a price).

I think for me it comes down to how good at focusing is the 5D. some people seems to like it some think its off center focusing is lacking. The thought of spending close to 2000 on a camera that may or may not be good at focusing is a tough choice.....

You pay that amount of money for the FF sensor mostly... The IQ of a 5D is really excellent. Try if you can find some RAW files of both the 5D and 40D. You will notice a difference (at least I did).

You could stick to using the 5D's center AF point and doing some cropping to get the composition you want. You have almost 3MP left to crop in comparison to a 40D...


About a 10% resolution difference is not huge, and it does not give extra flexibility, just a little more resolution. The image quality of the 40D is also excellent.

Marcus Watts wrote:
Shutter lag on the 5D though?

I am used to shooting with a 1 series, the 5D is slow by comparison. To be fair, the 40D is a bit slower than a 1 series too, but not as slow as a 5D. Shoot with a 1 series for a while, then go back to the 5D and you'll immediately notice the difference.

Several people talk about the superiority of the FF for wide angle, but
I am not sure that is really true.

The 10-22 is the same as the 16-35 on FF, and there are several third party lenses in this range too. Sigma makes a 8mm fisheye and has introduced a 4.5 mm fisheye for crop cameras.

So, except for the 14L II, you have just about the same options on the crop cameras as the full frames.

That's true, except you have a wider selection of *fast* wide angles for FF and then you also have ultra-wides for FF, an option that doesn't really exist for crop bodies.

I started a thread on dpr about this... asking if the wide-angle advantage on FF is really as great as everyone suggests. The consensus seemed to be it's not as great as it once was but is still significant.

I upgraded to the 40D from the 20D last October and have been very happy with the 40D. At the time I was on the fence as to the 40D or 5D, but what made the difference to me was the 40D has the latest technology and the 5D technology is about 2 years old. My plan is to upgrade to the new 5D (or what ever it will be called) about a year after it hits the market.

As for lenses, I currently own the 24-70 f2.8L (awesome lens), the 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM and the EF-S 17-85 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM. I love the 24-70, IQ is very good and I really like the 70-300 as the IQ is good (can be soft at 300 wide open), but for the money ($550) this is a very good lens. All of these lenses perform very well on the 40D. The 24-70 AF is very quick on the 40D, much faster then the 20D.

I'm getting to ready to add to my lens kit and one of the len's will be either the 70-200 f2.8L IS USM or the 200 f2.8L II USM. If I go with the 70-200 I will sell the 70-300.

If unsure of which lens to get you can always rent them before you buy. I have used a company called Lens Pro to Go at www.lensprotogo.com. Excellent service and shipping is included both ways in the rental price.

Hope this helps...

I played with both at the shop today and to be honest I preferred the 40D, I don't think it was that much faster at focusing but there was just something about it I preferred.

I may go back next week and have another play, thankfully the camera shop is very helpful and lets me stick a variety of lenses on and play around with them.

Im now going to think more about lenses. this is the list of the ones I wanted if i was going with the 5D but if I go 40D I'll probably have to change them a bit.

Canon 24-70 2.8L
Sigma 50 2.8 Macro
Canon 70-200 f2.8L USM (2.8 IS is too expensive so would prefer a 2.8 non IS over 4 IS )
Canon 85 1.8 USM

Id rather stick to L lenses so I dont have to sell the ef-s ones if i go full frame; Also if i eventually end up with both a crop and a full frame camera they can do for both.