Hi,

Just wanted to write a quick note about my recent 1DMkIIn sensor cleaning. I searched here for info on this subject but didn't find any. Then on other websites I found quite a bit of contraversial writings about various methods.

I have used the rocket bulb for a couple of years and it has worked fine until I got in a real dusty enviroment. For the last 6 months I have had a vey dusty sensor and no amount of blowing air would remove the particles. There were probably 100 or so very noticeable particles and cloning them out had become quite a chore.

I decided to use the sensor swab cleaning brushes by Photographic Solutions. I also used their Eclipse solution. Anyway, just wanted to report that this was an easy task and the results are fantastic. No more dust! These were particles that were really welded to the plastic sensor cover too.

I wanted there to be a searchable post regarding this proceedure here on FM so others that are as scared as I was can be reassured. Of course, it is not without risk but when some of the people at camera shops and some online forums literally freak out at the thought of touching the sensor it makes you hesitant to say the least.

So it's no big deal, works great, and I will probably wet-clean mine every few months from now on.

Hope this helps someone and if anyone has more detailed questions just pm me.

Mark

Hi there, Just wanted to add that I use the Digi-pads and Eclipse cleaning solution and have been doing so on both MkIIn's for a couple of years without problems. Just take it easy and NEVER re-use the swabs. Sometimes you may have to use a couple to shift really stuck dirt but generally a swab every couple of weeks works a treat.

The downside is that if you ruin your sensor then it is your own fault but just take care.... The upside is that you don't ahve to send your gear off and it is quite a bit cheaper.

mark fadely wrote:
I decided to use the sensor swab cleaning brushes by Photographic Solutions. I also used their Eclipse solution. Anyway, just wanted to report that this was an easy task and the results are fantastic. No more dust! These were particles that were really welded to the plastic sensor cover too.

I use this same solution - but only when I can't get it off with my sensor brush. I use this brush that attaches to a motor that spins it so that it becomes slightly charged. I then move that around on the sensor and it generally gets everything. When it doesn't I break out the swabs and denatured alcohol (eclipse). My recommendation is to use the bulb first, brush second and swabs third and only if needed.


It is not without risk but when some of the people at camera shops and some online forums literally freak out at the thought of touching the sensor it makes you hesitant to say the least.
Mark

You're not really touching/cleaning the sensor. You're cleaning the AA filter that sits over the sensor. Still, you don't want to oversaturate the swab because if any of that alcohol gets off where it doesn't belong then something bad could possibly happen. Denatured alcohol evaporates at such a high rate though that this is unlikely to happen.

One further caveat. The Canon 1Ds and others (maybe the 5d, can't remember) have grease around the inside of the barrel above the sensor. You need to buy the solution to clean that grease off first before using swabs or a brush or it might get on the swab (or brush) and thus on your AA filter. I found this out the hard way after swabbing a huge grease mark across the AA filter which took 3 more swabbings to clean up.

I can't remember exactly why, but 5D owners need to use Eclipse 2. Something about a coating on the 5D sensor that can be removed with the original Eclipse.

-Mickey

also use Eclipse #2 on 40D....and I think MkIII.

In addition to OP comment, be sure battery has a good charge....one would hate for the shutter to trip and the mirror flap on a swab while cleaning

actually this is the list:

Eclipse for Nikon D1, D1X, D1H, D2X, D2Xs, D2H, D2Hs, D50, D100, D200, : Canon xt350D, D30, D60, 10D, 20D, 30D, 300D, 5D, 1D, 1Dmk2, 1Dmk2n : Fuji S2, S3, S5: Sigma SD-9, SD-10 : Pentax K100D, K110D, *ist: Konica-Minolta 5D, 7D $8.95

Eclipse E2 for Nikon D300, D3 : Canon 40D, 1DsMK3, xti 400D, 1Dmk3 : Nikon D40, D40x, D70, D70s, D80 :: Leica M8 :: Sony A100 :: Pentax K10D

Dan Paik wrote:
actually this is the list:

Eclipse for Nikon D1, D1X, D1H, D2X, D2Xs, D2H, D2Hs, D50, D100, D200, : Canon xt350D, D30, D60, 10D, 20D, 30D, 300D, 5D, 1D, 1Dmk2, 1Dmk2n : Fuji S2, S3, S5: Sigma SD-9, SD-10 : Pentax K100D, K110D, *ist: Konica-Minolta 5D, 7D $8.95

Eclipse E2 for Nikon D300, D3 : Canon 40D, 1DsMK3, xti 400D, 1Dmk3 : Nikon D40, D40x, D70, D70s, D80 :: Leica M8 :: Sony A100 :: Pentax K10D

Need to move the 5D to the E2 list.

-Mickey

http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/methods.html
Someone had posted this link here a few weeks back and I found it very useful. I bought the swabs but got Visual Dust solution instead of the Eclipse, since the Eclipse can't be shipped.
Tim

Here the list at Photographic Solutions (the maker). The 5D uses regular eclipse.

http://www.photosol.com/cameras_bymfg.html

I have used a rocket blower to clean my sensors but had limited success until I got a sensorscope. Then I was able to actually see the dust and concentrate the blower on the exactly the right spots rather than make a general attack on the whole sensor. I was favourably impressed at how quick and effective the blower then was.

The sensorscope is not cheap but then nor are most of the cleaning systems.

- Alan

I have been using the E2 solution on my 20D and 5D with great success. I spent hours reading about sensor cleaning everywhere and anywhere I could find information: forums, websites, blogs, etc. I spoke with other photographers and eventually the fine folks at Calumet in San Diego. I also fretted and worried for a couple of months before actually attempting this minor surgery on my 20d.

The conclusion - touching the sensor can damage it, sending it out for cleaning is expensive and time consuming, cleaning it yourself is relatively easy to do. My understanding of the difference between using the Eclipse 1 and 2 is that the E2 is somehow a more mild solution and therefore less likely to harm any chemical coatings that exist on the sensor cover. If that's true then it stands to reason that while the E1 is certainly usable on some cameras, the E2 is usable on most, if not all similar cameras. I've read enough forum posts to know that there are many others with similar and dissimilar results and opinions but I felt compelled to offer my own experience as I know how frustrating of an endeavor this can be for most of us.

To recap, I use the Eclipse E2 and the 'orange pads' by visibledust.com. I usually follow up the wet cleaning with a couple of blasts from a rocket blower and viola - all clean. I always use exactly two drops of solution and never reuse the swabs.

Good luck to you!

Thanks for all the informative replies. I think this should be a sticky post or tutorial somewhere on the site so others can easily find the info. FM can have a disclaimer but still put the replies from real users that are cleaning their sensors on a regular basis. I have been active on the web in photography forums for over 3 years and I had trouble locating reliable info on this necessary task. I think a lot of people could benefit from the reports you guys have given.

rwanderman wrote:
Here the list at Photographic Solutions (the maker). The 5D uses regular eclipse.

http://www.photosol.com/cameras_bymfg.html


Thanks for the list rwanderman. When I had my 300D I got the cleaning system from Copperhill and then when I got my 5D I kept cleaning with the Eclipse that came with the kit. Then I read somewhere (here I think) a discussion about the tin oxide coated sensors are best cleaned with the E2. Of course I seached and couldn't find anything but something I read led me to call and order a bottle of E2.

Now, because of rwanerman's post, I went back and checked the Copperhill site and the too also have the same info as the list linked above. Oh well, I have a bottle of both.

-Mickey

I found this on DPreview from back in April.

"from David Stone, President
PHOTOGRAPHIC SOLUTIONS, INC.

I would like to help clear up the confusion surrounding which of our cleaning fluids needs to be used for 5D cleaning. At this point, it appears there are people who have had problems which either fluid on 5D's, and there are those who use either fluid with total success. While it is too early for me to offer why this may be so, the fact is, it is equally confusing and annoying to everyone involved.

For the time being, if you have been using Eclipse on your 5D with good results, continue to use it. If you are using E2 on your 5D with good results,
stick with E2. If in doubt, use the E2.

From what feedback I have gotten, the Eclipse seems to be okay on 5D's that are some of the earlier cameras sold. E2 seems better for the newer

5D's. I do not have enough data to convincingly explain why this is so, but I am working on it. It will be a great help in the meantime if 5D owners would please email me and let me know the following info :

5D serial # ; and which fluid you have used and whehter the results were good or bad.

In the meantime, please know we will fully stand behind our Guarantee - you WILL be covered for any damages caused by any of our products if you follow the procedure outlined.

Thanks for your patience, understanding and support through all of this.

Sincerely,

David M. Stone"


Link to it

These quotes are the most important to me.

artistamacabro wrote:

If in doubt, use the E2.

In the meantime, please know we will fully stand behind our Guarantee - you WILL be covered for any damages caused by any of our products if you follow the procedure outlined.



Thanks for finding that. I used to visit DPReview regularly but lately less and less (but that's for another thread)

As to your earlier post:

artistamacabro wrote:

...the difference between using the Eclipse 1 and 2 is that the E2 is somehow a more mild solution and therefore less likely to harm any chemical coatings...


I had read somewhere that one solution was methanol and the other was ethanol. Can't remember which is which. If I hadn't retired last year from 28 years in a Quality lab I could have taken some in for analysis.

Anybody know any different?

-Mickey

Mickey,

Eclipse is 100% methanol, the purest form of alcohol you can get. E2 is composed of methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol.

Indium Tin Oxide coated sensors came out a few years ago, the D70 was the first Nikon and the xti400D was the first Canon. There were a handful of cases where Eclipse had a chemical reaction with the coating and it eventually broke down. But what your seeing in that post from David Stone was the inconsistency of this happening in the beginning of this year. The D70 came out in 2004, well before this issue manifested itself with the 5D. So here you had a ITO-coated senor being cleaned for several years with Eclipse with no degradation whatsoever, then along comes the 5D, and a few cases of the coating breaking down. So what was going on?

After rigorous testing of Canon sensor units, specifically the 5D CMOS, the conclusion by David Stone and a few others was that some of the very first batch of 5D's had defective coatings which could break down with Eclipse. To my knowledge it was around 5 or 6 instances of this happening. There is a very stringent process of applying the coating and if there is the slightest deviation, Eclipse would have a negative reaction with it. So there was some sort of quality control issue in Canon's manufacturing this sensor, at least in the beginning.

So today, Photographic Solutions recommends E2 for all ITO-coated sensors and Eclipse for non-coated sensors, with the exception of the 5D. We still hear from D70 users who have been using Eclipse for 3 years with no ill-effects and there are tons of people using it presently on the 5D CMOS with the same great results.

Hope this demystifies this situation a little.
Nicholas
www.copperhillimages.com

Nicholas R. wrote:
.........Hope this demystifies this situation a little.
Nicholas
www.copperhillimages.com


If, as is often said, we (well not me - still too chicken ) are cleaning the AA filter why is the sensor coating material relevant?

ITO coatings used to be placed on the underside of the AA-filters, so the filter we were cleaning was similar to a glass surface. Then the maufacturers reversed the procedure hoping the coating would be less prone to accumulate dust and debris, which turned out to be wishful thinking. Of course this change probably saved them money, too.

But the answer to your question is when this coating is broken down and starts to flake off, it appears prominently in your images as a "corrosion" type of effect. That's why we need to use the fluids according to Photosol's recommendation.

Nicholas
www.copperhillimages.com

Nicholas R. wrote:
Of course this change probably saved them money, too.

Cynic


But the answer to your question is when this coating is broken down and starts to flake off, it appears prominently in your images as a "corrosion" type of effect. That's why we need to use the fluids according to Photosol's recommendation.

Nicholas
www.copperhillimages.com

Thanks Nicholas - very informative

Thanks for the details Nicholas.

Very informative. I have used both but to be on the safe side I'll stick with the original Eclipse. I have a friend that has the XTi. If he needs to clean his sensor we'll use the E2.

-Mickey

Edited by Mr.Burns on Dec 16, 2007 at 12:36 AM GMT

Mickey,
David Stone and a few other people put the 5D's CMOS through the ringer with Eclipse and it didn't show even a trace of breaking down, so all of us feel very confident in recommending it. And, yes, E2 for the xti400D, 40D, 1Dmk3 and the 1DsMk3.

Best,
Nicholas
www.copperhillimages.com

Nicholas R. wrote:
ITO coatings used to be placed on the underside of the AA-filters, so the filter we were cleaning was similar to a glass surface. Then the maufacturers reversed the procedure hoping the coating would be less prone to accumulate dust and debris, which turned out to be wishful thinking. Of course this change probably saved them money, too.

[...]

Can you point to a source for this?

It seems very silly to put an ITO coating on the underside of a filter. Indium tin oxide is one of the few ceramic coatings that is conductive and optically clear. Electrical conductivity of the top coating/surface is good, because that reduces the chance of particles adhering to it through static electrical charge.

In other words, putting an ITO coating underneath a filter seems pointless, so what gives?

As far as I can tell, based on posts I've read on the subject, the ITO coated 5D filter simply had a few problems with coatings being improperly applied, at least with earlier production runs. If the coating doesn't adhere properly to the glass, then it will easily come off. What I've seen from "broken" filters seems to be just that.

(Just to put it into perspective, I've got a background in Materials science & engineering.)

I just had an interesting sensor cleaning experience that I'll relate in case it saves someone some aggravation.

I was cleaning my 5D using “home rolled” swabs for the first time. Because it was my first time rolling my own I was experimenting a bit and swabbing more times than usual. The strange thing was, while the dust was coming off, some large “stains” started to appear. While the dust might be the size of the dot over an “i,” comparatively the stains were the size of nickels and quarters. It was driving me nuts for a while. Additional swabbing removed nothing, but occasionally added stains.

It was a relief when I had the thought that maybe it was not on the sensor, but on the glass on the mounting end of the lens. I cleaned that and all the “stains” disappeared.

I have cleaned sensors from my digital Rebel days, to my 20D and now my 5D and never experienced such a thing. I actually did not believe a dirty lens would even show up. But, even if it should not, in my case somehow I was getting the lens dirty when taking it on and off, and it was showing up under auto levels in Photoshop.

So, if you get stains, try cleaning your lens.

One word of warning... Be very careful with any auto leveling of completely uniform test shots. You may end up in a situation where you're worrying about stuff that will never show up in normal shots.

Tentacle,

I understand your point, but your average common dust WILL start to show up in photos shot at f/8, 9 or 10 in any sort of light background. This debate has been going on as long as dust has been an issue, and maybe other forum members share my perspective. So, here goes.

• If you actually care about how clean your lens is when you shoot, why in the world wouldn't you do the same for your sensor? I feel that anyone who takes photography seriously makes absolute sure that there are no foreign particles or debris showing up in his images. This is called D-SLR Hygeine.

• OK, let's assume you NEVER worry about dust on your sensor and NEVER have even seen it. But what would happen if you woke up one day and decided to delve into landscape or macro photography. Assuming your camera is one or two years old, you're shocked to find about 100 dust bunnies contaminating your photos. And everyone who has done this knows it will take dozens of wet swabbings to remove all of the gunk.
Note: There are plenty of photos from cameras with dust-shakers that are covered up with dust.

• To prevent those 100 dust bunnies from accumulating, I ask what is wrong with using a sensor brush or SensorKlear a couple of times a week to keep things reasonable? I read the latest mantra on these forums which goes "Just send the camera in to Canon to clean. Don't take a chance ruining your sensor. They'll have it back to you in 7 to 10 days. If you live nearby, just drop in to the service center and they'll do it while you wait." Well, all this advice is OK, but using a sensor brush or SensorKlear is the most benign thing that can happen to a sensor and I haven't heard about ANY mishaps with these tools. So all of those warnings in the mantra conveniently disregard those tools as a daily, easy-as-pie to use sensor cleaning regimen.

Sorry for being wordy, but I wonder just how many others here do NOT like seeing gray, fuzzy dots in their images. And we actually don't hyperventilate at the thought of using one of the dry tools to clean our sensors.

Nicholas
www.copperhillimages.com