Well, my 1D2N, 1D3 and 9 lenses arrived back from Canon om Froday after a clean, service and calibration.

I am a long standing 1D2 and N owner and shoot primarily sports and motorsport. I spoke to CPS UK many times trying to troubleshoot the AI-Servo performance of my 1D Mark 3, to no avail. They eventually asked me to send all my gear into Canon for calibration as a next step, I got charged a bargain £300 for this. Yesterday I tested my 1D3 and 400/2.8 IS in the garden on a tripod. Focus is spot on in One Shot. Shooting wide open DoF is exactly as it should be, a noticeable improvement from before the calibration, good job then.

Not quite. Today I shot a rugby match, sadly not England v France! (Well done England!) The result, another huge amount of out of focus shots. Lots of pumping of the AF-ON button. Something like 1400 shots in 80 minutes. Strangely when the light dropped and the floodlights came on I increased ISO to 3200 to compensate, the shots towards the end of the game seem more in focus than those at the beginning in daylight. For the whole game focussing just felt drunken is the best way I can explain it, reluctant might be another.

For 2 out of the last 3 rugby games I have reached for my 1D2N and it has done superbly well, with the same lenses.

Today's shots where all AI-Servo, 10fps with the 400/2.8 IS. For the 1st half tracking sensitivity was set to 0 and left/right expand was on, for the 2nd half tracking sensivity was set to +1 and surround expand was on.

I apologise in advance Fred but I never had to f*(k about so much with a camera before to try to make like I do with the 1D Mark 3. On my 1D2/Ns I never had to change tracking sensitivity, in fact the camera is pretty much at default settings. Of course sometimes I use expand and always use * button for focus. The older bodies just did the job and they did it right. Most importantly I could trust them.

I really am reaching the point where I am considering selling my Mark 3 and trying to find a new 1D2N, or possibly even a 1Ds3.

Signed 'pulling hair out in Cheltenham'!!!

I feel your pain. Did a footie match today too, my first with the MK3 actually, been sport quite for me since it arrived, but I did have a horse meet on day two.

Drunken is a good description.

I've enough shots, my job is done, but .... for no reason it just loses AF I haven’t a single incoming tracking sequence successful.

Sorry to hear the bad news. Hopefully you'll be able to find another "N".
I'm just wondering what is Canon going to do to fix this mess they've created.

Alistair Watson wrote:
I really am reaching the point where I am considering selling my Mark 3 and trying to find a new 1D2N, or possibly even a 1Ds3.

Assuming the 1Ds3 won't have the same problem....

I got rid of my 1D3 and hope the 1Ds3 is good. It would be a more suitable camera for me, anyway.

stanj wrote:
I got rid of my 1D3 and hope the 1Ds3 is good. It would be a more suitable camera for me, anyway.

Just curious but why did you sell your 1D Mark 3?

gbee wrote:
Drunken is a good description.

I've enough shots, my job is done, but .... for no reason it just loses AF I haven’t a single incoming tracking sequence successful.


I have enough shots too but that isn't the point. 1800 shots reviewed in CS3 Bridge in about an hour. Pretty simple. Usually processing 1D2N results from a rugby game are much harder, weed out the few unfocussed ones - clearly my fault so focus point is off. Then knock a focussed series of shots down to 2 or 3 etc., etc., takes much longer to get the finished product since there is little to choose in quality between the shots.

I suppose low light ability, ISO capability and less computer time are about the only advantages of the 1D Mark 3.

Anyone want to buy a 1D Mark 3? As new condition. 4 months old. Probably 15 to 20K shots on it. Great camera if you don't do sports.... email me!

And I just discovered the buffer ISO relationship. Never noticed it before.

MK3 ISO 1600/40 jpeg burst
burst max @100/99


MKIIN ISO 1600/48 jpeg burst
burst max @100/59

So in essence the MK3 is actually slower, the plenty for high ISO is extreme alone. I lost a good shot today because of the buffer, I was surprised I ran out, of course adding 2 FPS and actually reducing the buffer all adds up to less field time.

And within all that the darn thing won’t AF worth a dam. For a sports camera this is beginning to look seriously like a creation from the asylum.

gbee wrote:
And I just discovered the buffer ISO relationship. Never noticed it before.

MK3 ISO 1600/40 jpeg burst
burst max @100/99
MKIIN ISO 1600/48 jpeg burst
burst max @100/59


Yep... I exhausted the buffer the other night at a cross country meet and I was thinking "What the...?". I just checked mine and it shows:

ISO 1600: 34 (MkIIn: 38)
ISO 3200: 30 (MkIIn: 33)
ISO 6400: 28

So yes, the MkIII has less buffer at high ISO than the MkIIn. Very surprising since such a big deal was made about the 99-image buffer.

I have two MkIII bodies that I use primarily for field sports. I use a 400/2.8 on one and a 70-200/2.8 on the other. I have about 20,000 shots on each body and I am fairly happy with the AF. But... I shoot mine just like I did the MkII. Meaning, I use the center AF point and I've turned OFF all the options having to do with auto-expanding anything. Turn it all off.

Once I did this it focuses as good if not better than my MkII's did.

I'm curious... have you tried shooting a game with the MK3 set to 8fps instead of 10? If all the shots were sharp perhaps the slower frame rate would be worth it.

Alistair Watson wrote:
stanj wrote:
I got rid of my 1D3 and hope the 1Ds3 is good. It would be a more suitable camera for me, anyway.

Just curious but why did you sell your 1D Mark 3?


Mainly because it's not the right camera for me. I've been a 1Ds / 1Ds2 user from the day they were introduced, and maybe expected too much from the 1D3. Such as speed and accuracy My main reason was that while it did help with ISO 3200 and indoor focusing (which is really important to me), it didn't help at all with overall image quality. Maybe I am in a small minority, but I think that the 1Ds2 will bury the 1D3 in overall image quality with anything ISO 800 and below. Don't hate me if you disagree, it's just my opinion. And it focused all over the place.

Plus I hate the ergonomics, specifically the lack of the X button (switch to registered AF point). I still hope that they added it as a CFn to the 1Ds3, to re-program the AF-ON button to do what the X button used to do (in the same place). Try to shoot verticals and switch to the registered AF point. If the 1Ds3 won't have such a CFn I'll be seriously mad but I'll take it anyway

Alistair Watson wrote:
Well, my 1D2N, 1D3 and 9 lenses arrived back from Canon om Froday after a clean, service and calibration.

I am a long standing 1D2 and N owner and shoot primarily sports and motorsport. I spoke to CPS UK many times trying to troubleshoot the AI-Servo performance of my 1D Mark 3, to no avail. They eventually asked me to send all my gear into Canon for calibration as a next step, I got charged a bargain £300 for this. Yesterday I tested my 1D3 and 400/2.8 IS in the garden on a tripod. Focus is spot on in One Shot. Shooting wide open DoF is exactly as it should be, a noticeable improvement from before the calibration, good job then.

Not quite. Today I shot a rugby match, sadly not England v France! (Well done England!) The result, another huge amount of out of focus shots. Lots of pumping of the AF-ON button. Something like 1400 shots in 80 minutes. Strangely when the light dropped and the floodlights came on I increased ISO to 3200 to compensate, the shots towards the end of the game seem more in focus than those at the beginning in daylight. For the whole game focussing just felt drunken is the best way I can explain it, reluctant might be another.

For 2 out of the last 3 rugby games I have reached for my 1D2N and it has done superbly well, with the same lenses.

Today's shots where all AI-Servo, 10fps with the 400/2.8 IS. For the 1st half tracking sensitivity was set to 0 and left/right expand was on, for the 2nd half tracking sensivity was set to +1 and surround expand was on.

I apologise in advance Fred but I never had to f*(k about so much with a camera before to try to make like I do with the 1D Mark 3. On my 1D2/Ns I never had to change tracking sensitivity, in fact the camera is pretty much at default settings. Of course sometimes I use expand and always use * button for focus. The older bodies just did the job and they did it right. Most importantly I could trust them.

I really am reaching the point where I am considering selling my Mark 3 and trying to find a new 1D2N, or possibly even a 1Ds3.

Signed 'pulling hair out in Cheltenham'!!!


I hear you, mine is in now for a second time...will report back when returned.

Alistair and others, do you notice any issues on lenses other than a 400mm f/2.8 or 70-200mm f/2.8? I finally had some free time and there was a sunny day (not hot, mid-60s) in Seattle so I did some AF testing with the MKIII. No issues with my 300mm f/4 IS in AI Servo. I use the setting suggested by Art Morris which is AI tracking is set to slow which makes the camera less sensitive to movement in the background. I always use center AF point. I tracked cars, birds, planes, and people on bikes. Lens was set to panning IS mode and I kept a high shutter speed (>1/4000th) which has been reported to be important to observing problems. My image sequences were in focus and I shot 10 fps. I didn't count but easily >95% of images were in focus and I shot at a distance ranging from 100 feet to 3 miles (trucks on I-5 bridge). These were not simple scenes, there were other moving subjects in the field however I used to single AF point to isolate the main target.

My camera was produced in July and came with the latest firmware when purchased late August. Is there anything I am missing other than the heat which has been associated with the problems? I had the MKII and the MKIII destroys it in IQ. I couldn't even measure AF speed, both are instantaneous in good or low light. I may rent a longer faster tele to see if I can observe any issues but I don't think I will.

I may eventually sell my MKIII because of car repairs and I want to keep one system (Nikon or Canon) but not because of any issues. However I want to make sure there are no issues as the buyer deserves to know. In any case I haven't decided. I'm enjoying shooting film but everytime I break out the MKIII I change my mind. In any case, I didn't know Canon was calibrating the MKIII. There is hope afterall for those that are not happy with their copies. The more I hear and read the more I think it is not all MKIIIs that need help. If Canon would take back all of the bad ones and replace them with newer factory tested versions in addition to dropping the price to $3999 I think they could win back the disgruntled.

Edited by White, Jack on Oct 13, 2007 at 11:17 PM GMT

Alistair, if I was you I would not even contemplate buying a 1Ds3 because it is so much like the 1D3, just as the 1Ds2 was like the 1D2. That means you may well get a good one but there is a significant chance that you will not. And it's twice the price of your 1D3, so the risk is even greater. You might as well get a 1Ds2, but be aware that the extra image detail will make your 1D2N look a bit sick

How long did it take to get all of your gear serviced ?

Is it all working better (faster or more accurate AF) on your 1D2Ns than it used to ?

My 100-400 and 1D2 were both vastly improved individually and as a pair by having them serviced. I've still yet to test my 1Ds2 thoroughly but I'm hoping it will be as much improved as the 1D2 was.

cheers,

- Alan

Buy an MK3 and turn off everything.

Turn OFF the advanced AF

Trun OFF side centre support, OFF expansion,

Turn OFF 10FPS

ONLY use ISO 100

ONLY use M2 JPEG

Buy a card faster than the write speed of the MK3 to get a slower write speed in reality.

From Canon UK. boost contrast and sharpening so you have a Mr. & Mrs Blotchy wearing a black n white detailess blotch ....

Riveting stuff. Next thing someone from Canon will ask us to buy the Nikon ....

Aaron Scott wrote:
I'm curious... have you tried shooting a game with the MK3 set to 8fps instead of 10? If all the shots were sharp perhaps the slower frame rate would be worth it.

Hi all,This is my first post here after along time.I bought my Mark III from A J Purdy in london About 3 months ago.This camera was returned just after 3 weeks of use. AI Servo problems with Canon 400 MM f5.4 lens i could not get even one sharp image.A J Purdy were nice enough to send me a new camera.The new camera s/l No 533*** even worse then the first one can not get any sharp images after trying all the settings that canon recomend all the images of flying birds football games that i shot. All out of focus and very plastic looking images.I am really heart broken.I do not enjoy my camera any more like i used to.The bigest mistake i have made is when i sold my 1D Mark IIn.Sorry if i have said anything wrong but this is the way i feel.Regards to all.Jamil.

Aaron Scott wrote:
I'm curious... have you tried shooting a game with the MK3 set to 8fps instead of 10? If all the shots were sharp perhaps the slower frame rate would be worth it.

Hi Aaron, nope, I never tried shooting a game at 8fps instead of 10fps. I guess I will add this to ever shorter list of 'things to make my 1D3 shoot rugby', thanks for the suggestion.

stanj wrote:
Mainly because it's not the right camera for me. I've been a 1Ds / 1Ds2 user from the day they were introduced, and maybe expected too much from the 1D3. Such as speed and accuracy My main reason was that while it did help with ISO 3200 and indoor focusing (which is really important to me), it didn't help at all with overall image quality. Maybe I am in a small minority, but I think that the 1Ds2 will bury the 1D3 in overall image quality with anything ISO 800 and below. Don't hate me if you disagree, it's just my opinion. And it focused all over the place.

Plus I hate the ergonomics, specifically the lack of the X button (switch to registered AF point). I still hope that they added it as a CFn to the 1Ds3, to re-program the AF-ON button to do what the X button used to do (in the same place). Try to shoot verticals and switch to the registered AF point. If the 1Ds3 won't have such a CFn I'll be seriously mad but I'll take it anyway.

Stan, nope I agree, in terms of pure image quality at anything less than ISO 800 the 1Ds2 would produce a superiorimage, I certainly don't hate you for making your opinion. All constructive opinions are appreciated.

Shane Canfield wrote:
I hear you, mine is in now for a second time...will report back when returned.

Please let us know whether the 2nd service makes a difference. Good luck Shane!

Jack, I shoot primarily with the 70-200/2.8 IS, 300/2.8 IS, 400/2.8 IS and 500/4 IS. I have had consistently bad results with my 1D Mark 3 on all these lenses. I need the 1D3 to work on these lenses!

Alan321 wrote:
Alistair, if I was you I would not even contemplate buying a 1Ds3 because it is so much like the 1D3, just as the 1Ds2 was like the 1D2. That means you may well get a good one but there is a significant chance that you will not. And it's twice the price of your 1D3, so the risk is even greater. You might as well get a 1Ds2, but be aware that the extra image detail will make your 1D2N look a bit sick

I drove my gear down to Canon Elstree on Monday morning, the 8th October. They logged into all into their system and started work on Tuesday morning. A tech apparently was dedicated to cleaning, servicing and calibrating my gear full time until Wednesday afternoon. On Thursday it was shipped, Friday 12th October it arrived back to me via UPS.

My 1D2N was calibrated against my lenses in January this year so it was spot on before the calibration and is still spot on. While the DoF is now very accurate with the 1D3, much more accurate than before service, I do believe the problem to be in the AF. I am going to call Canon this week.

GBee I hard you on the buffer capacity, I have seen the same!

Jamil, sorry to hear your story. While I am paying the price of the 1D3 cost, the time and effort spent to trying to get it work I still have the safety net of not having sold my 1D2N. I guess we will all learn something from this experience.

Ive already had 3 of my mark IIIs replaced. All of them just stopped working,
they told me it was the shutter failiure, AF servo worked differently on each
body, and funny enough the third body one was seriously under exposing?!? Af servo
was flawed on each body. Iam now running on fourth copy and it seems to be working fine for a week now,
AF seems jerky at times, but if damn thing just works Iam ok.
Beside that iam really dissapointed, shuld have sold my trusty Mark II,
and if this one dies iam not buying this body. Ditto.

This thread is so depressing.

I think I'll be keeping my 1D II well into 2008 and looks like I'll be waiting for the 1D III N if it's even going to happen.

Let's hope the 5D II or legendary 3D give us something to sing about rather than bitch about.

Maybe there's a D300 in my future?

Well at least the 1D II is still a super camera and the 40D seems a good upgrade from a 20D (if I can ever sell it).

Pixel Perfect wrote:
This thread is so depressing.

I think I'll be keeping my 1D II well into 2008 and looks like I'll be waiting for the 1D III N if it's even going to happen.

Let's hope the 5D II or legendary 3D give us something to sing about rather than bitch about.


I feel exactly the same. When the 1D3 was announced in Januari I decided I would buy one. I also decided not to buy the first batch (May/June), but it's October now and there still is no solution.

Now I'm thinking to skip the 1D3 all together and see how the successor of the 5D will look like.

I love my 1D2Ns. They never let me down and any time I don't get the image I want, it is clearly my fault.

The problem now is I cannot exchange it at my dealer, Calumet in the UK, to exchange Canon have to prove there is a problem and as far as they are concerned there isn't an issue. I cannot go back for a refund for the same reason. If I sell it, certainly no one from FM is going to be interested after looking at my posts on the Mark 3 and if I chose the e-bay route then I am likely to lose alot of money and on the sale and get alot of hassle. What options do I have? None as far as I can see.

Calumet in the UK are having a series of Canon open days show casing the Mark 3. It would be interesting to see what the reps have to say.

Gavin Sim wrote:
Calumet in the UK are having a series of Canon open days show casing the Mark 3. It would be interesting to see what the reps have to say.

I have been to 2 of these, one organised by warehouse express, the other by london camera exchange. Both sadly featured Canon Sales Account Managers pointing us all to the wonderful information on CPN for how the 1D3 focussing works. They were prepared to take technical questions offline but once we got past the standard docs I was told to talk to CPS helpdesk. Never ask sales people technical questions, they don't care and they can't help! Both open days and seminars on 1D3 focussing were an utter waste of time, well to someone who knows where all the 1D3 CFn material is on CPN anyway!!!!

Alistair, it may be hard to sell on Ebay and you'd probably feel guilty selling a crappy camera too for $4K. If I decide to sell it will be hard to sell a good copy as well without allowing the buyer to try it for him or herself.

lexvo wrote:
Pixel Perfect wrote:
This thread is so depressing.

I think I'll be keeping my 1D II well into 2008 and looks like I'll be waiting for the 1D III N if it's even going to happen.

Let's hope the 5D II or legendary 3D give us something to sing about rather than bitch about.


I feel exactly the same. When the 1D3 was announced in Januari I decided I would buy one. I also decided not to buy the first batch (May/June), but it's October now and there still is no solution.

Now I'm thinking to skip the 1D3 all together and see how the successor of the 5D will look like.

You can have mine, altthough it's a crappy one

Another sad story. Mine was calibrated but with no results.
Main problems with 400DO and 500.
According to CPS they have the new 1.1.1 firmware and I can get it this week by dropping by.

I am really sorry to hear your woes and others. I wish this camera would have lived up to its potential. I am glad I cancelled my 1D Mark III order and purchased one of the last new 1dmk2n. Maybe the 1dmk3 successor will be less of a gamble. Big sigh. Good luck reouping your moneis.

Gene