Im looking for a camera that i can pretty much just leave in my backpack and take out whenever i see something i want to photograph (meaning it should be prety light and small, my 20D/17-40 is too big for this). A point and shoot would be approximately what im looking for except i want better quality than a digital point and shoot. So i was thinking a film camera with a halfway decent lens (35mm preferably ƒ2.0), would be nice if it had an interchangable lens system . Anyone got any suggestions? I was thinking and old lieca, but im not quite sure how small they are, nor how cheap i could get one...


Edited by foges on Sep 10, 2007 at 08:40 PM GMT

Have you seen this current thread? It may give you some ideas:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/569148

Yeah i did have a look over that thread, thanx. Im however looking for something more "pocketable" that most of the cameras discussed in that thread. Ill have a look at the Contax G2 though, but even that looks big

Well, the Contax G2, you realize, is film-based. It's Leica M sized.

If you want digital that is truly pocketable, I would think one of the Fuji's, like the new F50fd, might be worth a look. With most of these you will have to deal with a minimum effective focal length of 35mm. If you really need wider, the Ricoh GR-D is one of the few possibilities, but its IQ, IMHO, sucks.

Sorry should have made it clearer, I AM looking for a film based camera (prety much hoping that the film will allow me to get better IQ out of a smaller sized camera)

OK. Film based pocketables are in my opinion, much better than the digital ones.

For fixed lens pocketables (i.e., no zoom):

Contax T3 (Zeiss 35mm fixed lens) -- just a great little camera. (The T2 is also great, and a bit bigger in size)
Yashica T4 (a different Zeiss 35mm lens) -- cheaper and quite different than the Contax (no brand-engineering), a cult favorite.
Ricoh GR1s (28mm fixed lens) -- excellent little camera, I still have one. Too bad the GRD doesn't measure up.
Nikon 35ti and 28Ti -- good Nikon compacts
Leica Minilux (40mm fixed lens) -- a little bigger and the lens protrudes from the body when closed, so it is not exactly "pocketable", just nice and compact. Leica quality.

If you need a zoom lens:
Contax TVS (1, 2, or 3)
Leica Minilux Zoom

I carry my old Olympus XA for that purpose. This is a true coupled rangefinder camera with a stellar 35mm f2.8 on it. ISO 25-800 with aperture priority metering makes this little camera a natural for me. If you can find a clean used copy, you will be amazed by its extremely small size and big performance.

I was still shooting with Leica M2 & M3 when I bought the XA, so I was skeptical until I ran one roll through it.

Marc

Don't forget the classic Rollie 35.

http://www.cameraquest.com/rol35se.htm

If your budget permits $500+, the Contax T3 offers a FF analog sensor and fits comfortably in a shirt pocket. Despite the shutter lag, it is my most-used camera. Took it to Hanoi last month and enjoyed its compact form, inbuilt flash, and low reliance on batteries. Rare for a P&S, the T3 lens is a prime: a Sonnar 35/2.8 with ultra-modern rendition. Has a couple of trick features, like "dragging the shutter". Note difference in size among three FF 135 cameras with a 35mm.

Olympus MJu-II (Stylus Epic in USA market). It is strictly a P+S with no manual controls other than spot metering option and controlling the built-in flash. This ultra small portable cameras used a very high quality auto-focus 35mm f2.8 lens to produce incredibly sharp images.

This model is physically small with a sliding cover to protect lens and the body is sealed for use in less than ideal conditions. There was also a slightly larger zoom version, but the smaller fixed focus model produces the sharpest images.

Otherwise the older XA series with manual focus lens is very good option that also has an excellent quality lens.

johnastovall wrote:

Don't forget the classic Rollie 35.


Yes. I thought of it after I posted my list. The Rollei 35 would be the purely manual approach to this space.

Another camera worth mentioning would be the Minolta TC-1 (28mm fixed lens).

If I was going to buy another compact film P&S right now, it would be the Contax T3. It would be the top "pocketable" choice, IMHO.

Olympus XA, I agree

Olympus XA, and if you want something you can buy new and not pay a collector's premium on- the Olympus Stylus Epic is indeed, quite EPIC.

Minolta HiMatics too
This is a 70s Minolta Hi-Matic CS rangefinder camera, fixed Rokkor 38mm f/2.7

Thanks for all the replies guys. I like the Rollei 35 the best and it seems you can get it quite cheap, the Olympus XA looks quite big and plasticy. I however just realized that my parents have a Leica Minilux that they are not using, its still kinda big though, but ill probably just use that and instead i can save up my money for something else. Like to buy an M series leica (rico's post got me thinking).

How big is that M4 actually? because of the angle of the photgraph it seems that it isnt much higher than the T3, but im not quite sure. Do the M series have light metering do you need a separate device? and how much do M4's usually go for?

Contax T3 (in black) for 35mm
Fuji DL Super Mini (not the zoom version) for 28mm

Both cameras are eminently pocketable, have stunning lenses, and give beautiful results. Leica M's are huge bricks by comparison. If you put one in your pocket, wear a strong belt.

foges wrote:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I like the Rollei 35 the best and it seems you can get it quite cheap, the Olympus XA looks quite big and plasticy. I however just realized that my parents have a Leica Minilux that they are not using, its still kinda big though, but ill probably just use that and instead i can save up my money for something else. Like to buy an M series leica (rico's post got me thinking).

How big is that M4 actually? because of the angle of the photgraph it seems that it isnt much higher than the T3, but im not quite sure. Do the M series have light metering do you need a separate device? and how much do M4's usually go for?

The thing you should be aware about the Rollei 35 is that it is pure manual focusing, with no focus assistance at all. It is pure scale (i.e., guess) focus. Also there is no parallax compensation in the viewfinder. If you do look for one of these, get one with the 40mm f2,8 Sonnar lens (stay away from the Triotar)

If you care considering a Leica M, think about a Leica (or Minolta) CL, same lens mount in a more compact body (cheaper, too). Probably somewhere between a Minilux and an M6 in size. The Minilux your parents have is probably worth a try to see if you really need something smaller, like the T3. The Leica CM is, essentially, a very nice recent re-design of the Minilux (but is expensive).

If you want smaller than the Minilux, then I only half agree with Richard's choice:
brainiac wrote:
Contax T3 (in black) for 35mm
Fuji DL Super Mini (not the zoom version) for 28mm


I concur completely with the Contax T3 if you want a 35mm fixed lens. However, if you want a wider 28mm fixed lens, it really is hard to beat the Ricoh GR1s (or the updated GR1v). The lens is outstanding (you could even buy the same lens separately in a Leica M mount), the body truly pocketable with sufficient exposure control and focus options that it will do what you want it to do. Comes with a lens hood and you can even get filters for it. Here is an old sample image from several years ago (taken handheld with 400 ISO print film -- Portra 400VC). There is lots of detail in this negative:

I've had both the Olympus XA and the Yashica T4. Both have very good optics. The T4 has a "Superscope" a waist level style finder on top in addition to the eye level finder, perfect for from the hip stuff. The Olympus XA is the smaller of the two.

I used to enjoy using the 'WLF' on the T4. It works excellently for overhead shots too. So simple and so cheap to build in. Don't know why we don't see them more often.

Ok, no rollei 35 for me then, id probably end up with only blurry photos. The Leica CM seems to similar to the Minilux and the T3 looks very little and nice, however it's quite expensive and i dont think i can justify the over 500$ pricetag for a film PnS. Ive been looking a bit at the T4 and it seems like a great little camera, one that i can just leave in my backpack and not be to concerned with, I especially like howe its weather-resistant. The reviews are also fantastic, i think ill keep a lookout for this one on ebay

Another Question: Does anyone have a picture of an M series leica (or Voigtlander Bessa) held in their hand so that i can see how big it is? and how much does one of these weigh?

It takes about twice the volume but weighs the same as 12 Yashica T4's :D

Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that the Olympus XA looked "Big and Plastic", actually only the Plastic part is true, as the clamshell case is plastic, but it is actually the smallest camera of all that have been mentioned in this thread and I believe the smallest full frame film 35mm camera. When the case is closed, the excellent lens is fully protected and fits well in a pocket, purse or briefcase. The only disadvantage to the XA system is that the flash is not internal but fits on the side of the camera.

XA - Best of the series, Rangefinder coupled 35mm lens
XA2 - Cheaper with Zone focus if I recall, but the same lens
XA4 - Same as XA2 but with a 28mm lens.

A11- smaller flash, uses 1 aa battery.
A16- larger flash, uses 2 aa batteries.