I've recently started venturing into leica and CZ glass and have been browsing around KEH. The prices there seem to be quite low for their BGN condition leica and zeiss. I realize the description for these items say "70% of original condition, brassing, dents, nicks, marks on glass but doesnt affect picture quality" and no collector would likely touch them, but for actual USE how bad are these? I just wanted to know if anyone here has picked up lens's from KEH in this condition and how bad where they?... still functional? or am I looking at a paperweight?

You can get really nice user lenses at a bargain, hence the code. You should call them up and ask specifically what the condition of that particular lens is. They're very honest and usually conservative in their ratings.

I hope you don't mind a "second hand" response, since I've not bought anything from KEH. I have met their people at trade shows (and looked over equipment graded at various levels), and talked with other photogs who have bought used from them.

In almost every case, BGN condition lenses are just fine functionally. The auto diaphragm (if an SLR lens) should work, focusing helix should be reasonably smooth, etc. So called "cleaning marks" on the glass can mean the coating has been worn away by over zealous cleaning, and there can be minor scratches. Usually this will only affect the optical performance in the toughest situations (strong backlight might cause more flare than in a perfect lens), and you have to decide whether you are likely to notice enough difference to pay the extra dollars for excellent or better condition. Only you can decide, but I hope this helps.

In my experience of 2 bargain lenses from keh, they're better than most excellent or mint rated lenses from private users on ebay. Flawless glass, one of them had a little wear on the body, but the other just had the feeling of being used without actual visible wear, if you know what I mean. They're cheaper on many lenses than final prices on ebay are, too - certainly for Contax/Zeiss, though perhaps not so much for Leica, from what I can tell. I'll definitely source BGN stuff from them when the need arises.

i've bought several leica and canon lenses from keh, bgn to like new. i agree with psquared: keh is conservative in its ratings. in any case, keh offers a 60 day return policy. i recommend them.

I buy everything I can from KEH. I am near Atlanta, so I can drive down there and pick stuff up. THey always have outstanding customer service. I have bought most everything in "EX" condition, which is just one step up from BGN. Some of them have had some minor cosmetic scratches on the barrel of the lens, but the glass has been perfect. They have their own service center, so I am guessing they go through stuff pretty good before they add it to their stock.
I just can't say enough good things about them and agree that their ratings are conservative. I am sure if you called, they would be totally honest with you. I deal with a salesman named Arthur.

They will also sometime send you photos of a particular lens if you ask nicely. But it can take a couple of days. Nothing but great experiences buying from them.

Yep, good place to buy.
I bought a BGN 50 1.4 R Leica lens [55mm filter size, so I guess 2nd of 3 versions]
Had a miniscule piece of visible ''fluff'' on an inner element and one or two rub marks on the focus ring; otherwise it was in wonderful condition. It cost slightly less than $400 US, and it's a great lens.

I'll chime in as well. I've purchased alot from KEH (my entire Mamiya setup, and my RTS setup and Zeiss lenses) Don't be afraid to buy something with the bargain rating. It will have a few scratches on the outside and a scratch or two on one of the lenses (or maybe dust or something) but over all it will be VERY usable. Most of my stuff is either the EX rating, or the BGN rating.

If you like your stuff to look brand new, then go up a rating or two, but as far as functionality goes, the BGN rating is good!

I just purchased a 200mm zeiss with the BGN rating. The outside of the lens actually looks almost new! There is a slight chip in the coating of the lens front element, but I have shot quite a few shots with it and can't see anything affecting the picture. This was the first lens I received from them with a BGN rating that actually had something chipped/scratched on one of the lens elements.


As far as prices go, their prices probably aren't the cheapest you can find, but it's pretty darn hard to beat the collection of stuff they have all in once place!

I have the same thing to say. I also bought my entire Mamiya rig from KEH, every piece was BGN rated. IIRC I spoke with Ken & he actually groaned when I mentioned their reputation regarding their rating system, didn't like that we all though so highly of it.

Anyway, like the description said, there is definite cosmetic wear. The corners are scuffed, the lens is brassed on wear areas--mainly the mount. My body actually had a big white paint scuff on it when I received it--5 minutes with a cloth & mild soap & it looked 100% better. But most importantly--everything *works* flawlessly, the lens optics are in excellent condition and the photos produced are great.

I will look for the BGN rated items first then upgrade as needed if they aren't available. Pricing seems to be better than typical eBay prices at the end of the auction--and it's a known quantity.

claudermilk wrote:

I will look for the BGN rated items first then upgrade as needed if they aren't available. Pricing seems to be better than typical eBay prices at the end of the auction--and it's a known quantity.

I agree. I'll often look for bargain graded items first.

KEH? For me the real test of a vendor is when I want to return an item...

I purchased a BGN zoom from KEH for about $400... I thought it had a bit too much wear in the focusing parts so after a week I phoned to notify them I was returning the lens...

The gent on their end was very nice... This wasn't a problem for them and the return was very easy... I checked my credit card records a few days after they received the returned lens and I had my purchase price credited... Less shipping, of course...

Now? I'm very comfortable buying used gear from them... It is truly only going to cost me the shipping cost to try tested and graded used gear...

BGN grade? I'll try it again at some point but their EX grade prices seem fair enough... For all I know there might be a KEH BGN lens waiting for me right now...

On the other hand, they're also nice people to sell your old stuff to as well.

I sold a big box of Nikon AIS lenses, a Leica R4s body with lenses, Contax Zeiss lenses, old Olympus crap, and other accessories to KEH, and they sent me a check overnight.

To give you an idea of how conservative they are, I had a Nikkor 50mm 1.2 that has never been used. It was brand spankin' new. I thought they'd rate it at least LN-, if not, LIKE NEW. Turned out to be EX+.

I will say that KEH undervalues the conditions. I bought a BGN lens that seemed almost new. it had some paint loss that had to be pointed out. These people rock.

I should update my comments - the 35-70 I bought appears to have 2 scratches on the elements INSIDE the lens body and a fair amount of dust that, though only visible when you hold it to a lightbulb (I usually use my PC monitors) is nevertheless there. Still a great buy.

As everyone has said, Keh's "bargain" designation is highly conservative. I always look for BGN stuff first. I've spent many thousands of dollars over the years with Keh and have never been disappoined with the condition of the gear. I rceently bought a Hassy 203 FE that was rated as "bargain" and I'll be damned if I can see anything but very slight rubbing and brassing in the usual places where one's hand would hold the camera.

I've bought a lot of medium and large format equipment, including some large format and enlarger lenses, all in BGN condition -- the ones I got were indistinguishable from new condition.

^^ That's the kind of comments that makes KEH groan.

While I am extremely pleased with my BGN gear, there is no question it's been used--probably for a long time in a professional studio. However it works perfectly. So, don't expect it the be cosmetically "like new" but it should work flawlessly.