Must shoot Raw

Must have optical finder, even if poor---IMHO, any optical finder is better than any EVF---but willing to be convinced otherwise. I guess if the EVF was good, I might go that way---but I find that I cannot take photos at arms' length, so some sort of finder essential

28mm equiv. or wider wide end

70+ long end (I walk closer if I can!)

smaller is better (I have other tools for work)

Brand totally unimportant; IQ is

Am in Vancouver working, so assume there would be a good store downtown---please advise if you know! cheers, KL

Leica M8?

Just do a features search on dpreview.com, they have all the specifics you need. I got: Canon PowerShot S60, Canon PowerShot S70, Olympus C-5060 Zoom, Olympus C-7070 Wide Zoom

Edit: a quick look through of their review/forums suggest that the S70 is the best of those, but I don't have any personal experience with any of them

Edited by Dagatech on Oct 03, 2006 at 05:31 PM GMT

I had a Canon S80 for a while that blew me away. It took wonderful pictures and had very respectable manual controls. Check out its review @ dpreview.com.

Not sure what the specs are off hand, but you won't be disappointed!

Also, isn't the M8 multiple thousands of dollars? Seems to be cost prohibitive to me.

EDIT: Didn't see you wanted RAW...in that case, the M8 may be the only way to go.

Sony R1 .. no OVF. 24-120mm f/2.8-4.8 Carl Zeiss coated lens. 10 Megapixels, from an APS-C sensor, as opposed to those measly 1/1.8 or smaller sensors. Tilt-fold LCD, which is placed, of all places, atop the body (doesn't make any sense), shoots RAW, can be bought used (few months old) for $600 to 650, manual focus (mechanical, not fly-by-wire).

Small ... don't even think about it. :-)

robsteve: funny!

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I didn't know that dpreview could be searched that way, either, David, so thatks for that, too. KL

I am about to order a Panasonic DMC-LX2, small and light, raw, EVF 8,5mp for 2:3 photographs, should be ok

Guy Mancuso wrote:
Kit how about the new little Leica's. you still need a Red Dot camera my friend.

Yes, everyone needs to over pay once or twice. Think of it as your contribution to preserving history and tradition.

What worries me about P%S digicams is speed. The older ones I had where excrutiatingly slow to power up, focus, and expose. has this gotten any better?

Lotusm50: I have had one or three of Leica's most expensive babies already, so have done my bit for the 'cause'. And I have decided to keep the L15: Canon's wides are really, really bad.

Well, it looks as though the Red Dot camera (or the Pana. equivalent, because of that little grip and being able to be got in black), plus a stick-on finder, is the way to go. Pity that Voigtlander 28-35 finder is almost half the cost of the camera----but that kind of kludge will be familar to everyone here... this is the 'Alternative" thread, after all!

I posted over at LDUG, too, and there are some good images of the finders stuck on the bodies.

See here: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/6645-there-small-camera-has-following.html

A question (and Andi, you might want to consider this, too), is there any advantage of the LX-2 over the LX-1, if you only shoot Raw? I am assuming that the Venus engine only affects JPEGs, but am not certain. The older brother is just over half the price, is the reason.

Oh, and if anyone has one of those V. 28-35 mini finders and wants to sell it, let me know! I will be in Canada for the next three weeks. Cheers to all, Kit

Kit, the LX2 has about 2 mp more and I think they improved each feature a bit. Dont know if this will make it sweet and I do not expect it to be the last cry from the jungle. It is a pocket camera has IS lens and raw, thats why I buy it. I dont need a Venus in my camera, I am quite happy to find her before my lens, if possible without any bells and whistle

Interestingly, on B&H the price difference between the LX1 and 2 is about $30.

LX-1 silver or black $469

LX-2 silver $439, or black, $479!

Andi, I'm with you on your last point, for sure! A poster on the LDUG mentoned that he was getting the LX-1 because, he reasoned, less MP (8. something) will mean less noise. The improvements in the processing only affect JPEGs, AFAIK. Will check further. Keep your eye out for Venus in the meantime!

Kit: I (normally) live in Vancouver. If you need a camera store I'd check out

Broadway Camera: http://www.bccamera.com/
or
Leo's Camera: http://www.leoscamera.com/aboutUs/aboutUs.html

Also there's Kerrisdale Cameras: http://www.kerrisdalecameras.com/
but they never seem to have stuff I need in stock, I always have to get them to order it.

In a pinch you can always go to one of the retailers (I suggest in this order): London Drugs, Best Buy or Future Shop. Note that the latter two will push hard for useless extended warranty and other crap like that.

Try Dunne and Rundle. http://www.dunneandrundle.com

Thanks guys: calls will be made Monday!! cheers, KL

I bought the Lumix 2 but it did not arrive yet. If I get it by Monday I can post a picture. Otherwise I would be out of house and don't know yet when I get back home to pick it up.

Got the DMC-LX2 yesterday; have taken a hundred or so images today around Vancouver. The battery is flat---but this really handles well. There is a little button ('Display') that, if you hold it down, allows the LCD to be put into a "power" mode (easily visible in bright sunlight) and---very useful---a mode that allows the LCD to be read quite easily when the little jewel is held at arms' length overhead! Very nice.

This has to be the stealth camera of the decade. It is so small that you can hold it entirely in the hand and shoot anywhere. NO ONE NOTICES IT, even when it's pointed at them. And there is a "fast focus" mode too that means that the camera locks onto a subject with a half-press of the shutter button (the exact areas of focus can be programmed too) and then you press the rest of the way. A surprisingly high number (over 75%) of these shots are sharp, it seems (but I have not looked at these on the computer yet).

Once I satisfy myself that the images are as good as they irst appear, I will post come images, maybe on a new thread (stealth-cam bible?).

Cheaper than an M8, for sure. And it really does fit in a shirt or coat pocket. cheers, KL

Sounds like winner Kit!
Have fun
please like to see some takes.

The review of the LX2 is up at dpreview. I just got one, but haven't had enough time to play with it yet. My initial impression is that the reviewer is a little too obsessed with noise. I'll share my thoughts in a week or so.
--Mark

Just posted a couple of snaps over at LDUG:

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/7075-dp-review-leica-should-read-seriously-2.html

I think you have to register to look (not sure) or you may be able to browse. My feeling about the little toy is that it's great---very configurable, everything you need on buttons, and it fits in a pocket! You want M8 or 5D performance, take your bag along. I just don't get some reviews---this is a nice little fun thing that will make nice prints up to reasonble sizes AND you can carry it everywhere and no one notices it.

bathman wrote:
I bought the Lumix 2 but it did not arrive yet. If I get it by Monday I can post a picture. Otherwise I would be out of house and don't know yet when I get back home to pick it up.

Hi Andi!

Any sign of any shots?? I actually just picked up a Lumix 2 - trying it out as a candid, stealth camera. Not sure yet if I'll keep it, yet.. Wondering what the latest little Leica will be like later this month - or whether to just switch systems completely, over to an M8.

Would love to see what you do with it, and what you think.