mrvile7734 wrote:
Guys check this thread out over at the Other Forum...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=19528454

That guy is going to be in line for all IS lenses this weekend.

I honestly think that the picture in that thread really isn't all that bad. He does not really understand the technical side of his camera but he has composed that image well.

ontime wrote:
I honestly think that the picture in that thread really isn't all that bad. He does not really understand the technical side of his camera but he has composed that image well.

Compositionally the picture isn't bad, and it's natural for a beginner to suffer from motion blur, but the way he took the criticism basically screwed him over. Let's see if he comes here for help

mrvile7734 wrote:
ontime wrote:
I honestly think that the picture in that thread really isn't all that bad. He does not really understand the technical side of his camera but he has composed that image well.

Compositionally the picture isn't bad, and it's natural for a beginner to suffer from motion blur, but the way he took the criticism basically screwed him over. Let's see if he comes here for help

So true. He was practically crying.

Im upset i wasted my time reading the original post

I've got to hop in here. I've been a P&S shooter for decades. I bought my 20D because I wanted to take better pictures, not because I knew how to take better pictures. You buy it, you learn how to use it, and you get better with it. It's called a learning curve and I see nothing wrong with it. Anyone who remembers where I started knows how much I've already learned; anyone who has read my recent posts knows how much further I still have to go. It's all good.

Did you really know what RAM was when you bought your first computer? Hell, I bet most of us don't even know how to program our remote controls or, for that matter, use our cell phones to their full potential.

the_farouk wrote:
I really shoudnt care one way or the other but some stupidity just rubs me the wrong way. I was at another forum (one that will remain nameless) and someone posted that they had just bought a 30D and that the camera was far more advance than they were ready for. They said the had read the manuel 3 times and still didnt get it, and they ask if someone could explain ISO, what are A-DEP, M, Av, Tv, P,and what is WB.

I wanted to scream.... You just spend over $1000 on somethign that you know nothing about. I should be use to this by now, considering that we all know money doesnt equal brains. Maybe Im just upset that I wasted my time reading the post to begin with.

Its true for any interest people have when they also have money. I am a big mtb rider. I can't tell you how many guys I used to see in CT with $5000 bikes that didn't know a trail from a sidewalk. Cars...ever see a Hummer? Who needs a Ferrari anyway? Sailboats...don't even get me started. I saw many people out sailing who couldn't get it to go where they wanted if you gave them an engine and a crew.

Some people just have too much money to spend. Don't get frustrated. Be glad they are all buying these toys, putting $$$ into R&D, and driving prices down as volume goes up. Not to mention all those great deals we can get once they realize they really are not any good at ___________ (fill in the blank with hobby of the week).

I know how that guy feels. My wife picked up a 5D for me yesterday, but I don't like to read manuals. Could someone tell me where you load the film? I'm not having much luck getting into that side slot.

mthtchr wrote:
I know how that guy feels. My wife picked up a 5D for me yesterday, but I don't like to read manuals. Could someone tell me where you load the film? I'm not having much luck getting into that side slot.

The film doesn't get wound into the side slot until you hit that direct print button .

Monito wrote:
You are all missing the big picture! The guy wants to learn and he knows his limitations! He read the manual three times, which is three times more than most people stumbling around the internet! Equipment envy will get you nowhere. Maybe he's starting with a 30 but who cares? He wants to learn. That's what counts.

He's receptive to learning. Send him here. Give the guy the help he deserves.

Hear hear!

Monito wrote:
You are all missing the big picture! The guy wants to learn and he knows his limitations! He read the manual three times, which is three times more than most people stumbling around the internet! Equipment envy will get you nowhere. Maybe he's starting with a 30 but who cares? He wants to learn. That's what counts.

He's receptive to learning. Send him here. Give the guy the help he deserves.



Now, that, my fellow photography enthusiasts, deserves a warm round of applause... Well stated. Please come out and take a bow.

EB-1 wrote:
EllitoGuy wrote:
what i hate is when i see a bastard in union square taking pics with a 1ds mkII and a 24-70L taking pics of dogs... thats a damn professional camera man, not for trivial pics..

a 20d/30d is a family cam, a 1dsII is not

Well I use the 1Ds MK II for taking images of the family dogs. They are not trivial! Dogs are more loyal and loving than most people, and certainly more precious in the long run than any of the more serious subjects like a landscape or wildlife, etc. So why not take the best images possible? The 1Ds MK II is very good for pets, as the extra detail in the fur really pops out and looks more lifelike than with lesser cameras.

EB

I like pets. I'll have to look into the 1Ds MKII. Thanks for the tip.

BTW - I say pets are worth the best of everything.

mthtchr wrote:
I know how that guy feels. My wife picked up a 5D for me yesterday, but I don't like to read manuals. Could someone tell me where you load the film? I'm not having much luck getting into that side slot.

When you consider that 80-90% of the time someone asks on some of the forums, "What's the best camera for a beginner to learn about photography?" the answer is a "dslr" because you can't do anything with a functionless point and shoot!

The manual's are narvels at squeezing operation directions and some small amount of "theory" into the space between 10 pages of cautions, warnings and advisories. Often covering regulations from several different countries and regulatory agencies.

Nor does Canon put a label or warning on their ads or the boxes that this a camera that will make people jealous, isn't intutitive and should be looked at as a useless extravagance until world poverty and hunger is wiped out. Unless. of course, you already know how to take pictures or previously owned cameras made by Kodak, Olympus, Nikon, Minolta, (and the list goes on. )

Dang, guess we need more manual space for more more warnings.

My city as a photo club which I'm part of since 2 years and many people join every years with gears much to big for them.

When they see that the club is a "Photo" club and not a "How to make your brand new over expensive SLR work without using the automatic mode", they drop out.

So what's ISO anyway.... Just kidding. I too was someone that had too much money to spend on a camera, so I signd up for a course instead of embarasssing myself.

I didn't start with a DSLR. I started with a Pentax ME Super (still the best thing for learning the basics of photography, imo) and moved up to a DiMAGE A2 (fully manual P&S). Now I'm ready for a DSLR...

I can certainly understand the feelings of the person who started this thread. I work as a camera salesman, and often get customers who know nothing about photography, but want "the best" camera available. The thing that bugs me is not so much the lack of knowledge from the customers, but more the unwillingness to learn. Now, in the case of the person mentioned in the original post, there was a willingness, just not a way. Personally, I'm confounded by that: there is little in the manual that can't be answered with a simple Web search (and far faster than a forum post). It's because of the ease of getting information that I get so frustrated with even those who do seem to be willing to learn, because the lack of finding that readily accessible information on the Web seems due to a grave lack of technical and./or computer skills, which are needed in order to use a digital camera to its full potential. It sometimes comes off as laziness: sometimes the users skim through the manual and then want me to explain everything; sometimes they never read it.

To use the car analogy, I find those who have no camera knowledge and the seemingly lack of ability to find it out on their own akin to somone buying a car without having a license, nor the intention of ever getting a license. If one can put out the money, and one has the eagerness to learn, why does that eagerness suddenly stop in the actual searching and experimentation phase? It stupifies me.

However, in the case of this person, it seems more that the manual confuses the person, and a different approach is needed. I foresee a lot of problems getting this user into a photographer, due to the way photography instructions are given in most cases. The manual is pretty straight-forward, and if it confuses, well - one has to wonder. Still, people learn in different ways, so perhaps once it's made clear, things will improve in the comprehension area. So, while I can understand the feelings, I think they're perhaps a bit misplaced in this instance.

Scream or cry all you want... when I first bought my 10D (for $1500, mind you), I came into it with nothing but a basic knowledge of how to use film cameras. I had no idea that I could change the ISO on the camera, and did not drop the camera out of the green mode for several months... until I found this site. That was almost four years ago, and...well... you can see how the interest has inspired me to acquire more gear, knowledge, and experience. My fiancé knew even less when she picked up her 20D, and we now have a reasonably successful event photography business.

Everyone has to start somewhere. I am sad to say that this site, as it is today, is nowhere near the 'beginner's paradise' that it used to be when I first joined.

Arka C.

To some extent, I agree that a DSLR may be 'too much camera' for many users. Sadly, many find out the hard way.

I also find it annoying when people recommend a DSLR to those who are just beginning to learn photography. You don't necessarily need a DSLR to learn about basic things like aperture, ISO, etc. Any upper end P&S camera with full manual control will allow you to do the same things. I started getting serious with photography using a Panasonic FZ10. Sure, it's not a real DSLR, but it taught me many, many things - and most importantly, it allowed me to realize that I had a genuine interest in photography. A lot of potential learners ultimately might not have enough passion to stick with the hobby, so it's better to find out early with a smaller investment.

And for all of you beginners: you don't need to buy the latest models as brand new! Buy a cheaper, older, used camera first. There's nothing wrong with them! And if you don't like it, at least you didn't waste too much money.