Ryan,
Weather sealing is not the ONLY thing on D200. The viewfinder is much bigger in that camera. I don't care much about the MP size. I am greatly disapointed about the viewfinder. Everything else is fine for me. I am a telephoto guy, so , can't buy a 5D for viewfinder
regards,
-Beji

My feeling is Canon is creating a hole for a new camera that fills the niche between the 5D and the 30D.

My hope is a semi to pro level crop camera in the sub 2k range. Specs of a 30D plus a larger sensor (10+), smaller unibody with integrated vertical shutter release, longer battery life, more focus points, more fps, better ISO noise reduction, EF-S mount, and more water resistance. Then drop the 1DmkII from the line-up and replace it with a high end full frame body, like the 3D that is rumored between 5D and 1DsmkII.

The 30D looks like a great camera to me and for the price it will be tough to beat. Unless you are starting from scratch why compare with a D200? There are certainly things in the 30D I would like to see in my 20D such as 1/3 stop ISO but I doubt that it enough for me to upgrade…. And is it that so bad… NO… It’s actually almost a relief that we don’t have to upgrade every 18 month. Still Canon’s done well with this one. Why would you need more MP… let’s face it 80% of shooters probably do not need this in a mid-range digital SLR. The next camera for me is the illusive 3D, 5D or future 1D body… most likely not this one unless I a can swing a quick deal selling my 20D… I’m not going to lose sleep over it if I don’t. I would rather go for more glass… say that new 85 1.2L USM would fit well into my setup

A question. I note a few users have noted that Canon did not add MLU to the 30D. I have it on the 20D. Has the 30D therefore been downgraded?

jimdavies wrote:
A question. I note a few users have noted that Canon did not add MLU to the 30D. I have it on the 20D. Has the 30D therefore been downgraded?

No, they're lamenting the fact that it's still difficult to turn on; many Canon users have wished for a MLU button.

CF12 is burned into most Canon users brains.

EB

grega wrote:
bubbablair wrote:
Will the old 20D battery grip still fit? Or is that part of the 'suck all the money out of upgraders' strategy as well?

Bubba

If you will be buying 30d than HOPE that it WON'T fit.

It is the same grip... The BG-E2 will fit on the 30D alos

You know, I may keep my 300D forever just for mirror lockup. With the firmware hack (Wasia, never checked out Undutchables), I get automatic mirror lockup whenever I switch to single shot mode, and I don't have to press the shutter twice (doesn't that defeat the point of vibration reduction if you don't happen to have a remote release?!) - it just puts the mirror up, waits for 1.5 seconds (IIRC) and shoots.

I suppose it's too much to hope that Canon will ever again provide _real_ mirror lockup - lock it up and keep it up between shots.

I really wanted a 10-11 MP sensor. The images it puts out are the most important part of the entire camera, and I'd take 11MP @ higher noise, esp. if I could set it at ~8 MP with ~no noise. I'm cheap to begin with, and being a high school student, I don't have a lot of cash to throw around. Better/bigger imaging capability would have sold me (not sure how i'd get the cash, but that's a different story...)

I can deal with an imperfect UI. I've been using a digital rebel for over 2 years (much longer than I like), and it gives me good images. I changed the firmware, but still don't like how it operates. I know it inside and out, but it could be a LOT better. I'll be graduating soon, and I was hoping for more, considering I might be able to convince my parents to buy me a new camera for graduation.

I'm just disapointed...

ibilly wrote:
The images it puts out are the most important part of the entire camera, and I'd take 11MP @ higher noise

I find that contradictory, but I accept that everyone has their own tradeoffs.

esp. if I could set it at ~8 MP with ~no noise.

And it's hard to imagine how you could pull this one off. It's not like the D2X; to achieve what you want, you'd have to turn off pixels scattered throughout the sensor. If you just select the "middle" 8MP, you'd still have the same pixel density and hence the same basic noise characteristics.


Edited by jdaily on Feb 21, 2006 at 09:13 PM GMT (Reason: Original text was a bit OTT)

timmyquest wrote:

Yeah, nice..but vastly overdue.

Almost all of those are found on my 1D

... whose list price new was $6000!

Seriously, I am sure I and my fellow 300d'ers will be interested but (almost) no one with a 20d.

Well, you can't please everyone.

I'm very excited about this 30D (or 20D Mark II, 20D N). This camera is exactly what I wanted:

1. Tried-and-true heart of a 20D. Good resolution without huge memory-eating files and a 1.6x crop that the 17-40, 35L and long lenses have brought me to love.
2. Spot meter
3. Soft-touch shutter release
4. ISO in 1/3 stops
5. More files in each folder of memory card, no more wading through tons of folders
6. ISO in viewfinder
7. Extra bonus: bigger LCD, high and low speed burst mode plus a PRINT BUTTON (j/k)

I'll be watching B&H like a hawk.

jdaily wrote:
ibilly wrote:
The images it puts out are the most important part of the entire camera, and I'd take 11MP @ higher noise

I find that contradictory, but I accept that everyone has their own tradeoffs.

esp. if I could set it at ~8 MP with ~no noise.

And it's hard to imagine how you could pull this one off. It's not like the D2X; to achieve what you want, you'd have to turn off pixels scattered throughout the sensor. If you just select the "middle" 8MP, you'd still have the same pixel density and hence the same basic noise characteristics.


Edited by jdaily on Feb 21, 2006 at 09:13 PM GMT (Reason: Original text was a bit OTT)

To me, marginal noise is secondary to sharpness and enlargement potential. I realize taht many people prefer their images to be on the cleaner side, but interpolation can only go so far if the image data isn't there in the first place.

on the 8MP mode, I do realize that it would be incredibly complicated sampling wise, but then again, there are cameras like the Sigma 1 color & 3 chips and the (not sure of the brand) HDR camera with differently sized pixels.

canon are the noise wizards. I stand by my desire/request for more MP's. On a semi-related note, why aren't we seeing any of these noise free wonderchips in the Powershot series?

Michael Reichmann is reporting that readers have told him Canon has indeed provided a mirror lock-up mode on the 30D (presumably available via the shot mode selector): a 3 second self-timer.

If only the 30D had a bigger viewfinder.

adamfilip wrote:
Question - Who will use the print button?

nobody

jdaily wrote:
jimdavies wrote:
A question. I note a few users have noted that Canon did not add MLU to the 30D. I have it on the 20D. Has the 30D therefore been downgraded?

No, they're lamenting the fact that it's still difficult to turn on; many Canon users have wished for a MLU button.


Thanks John!

Yes it can be a pain but not too bad. The other upgrades are better. They shouldf have swapped the print button for this I suppose!

JD

jdaily wrote:
Forum isn't turning the page. Strange, usually the 2nd post on a new page will fix things.


It's not turning the page again, maybe this post will help

Anyone who owns one of those $100 4x6" portable printers may find the print button useful when on location - for making Polaroid prints to give away to kids and remote village people.

For 99.9% of 5D owners, the print button is a totally useless piece of prime real estate.

jdaily wrote:
Forum isn't turning the page. Strange, usually the 2nd post on a new page will fix things.


Strange things are happening. After four posts finally page 20 appeared and than it dissapeared again

Edit : and now page 20 is back

Thank goodness .... I thought it was just my computer acting up!

I have noticed this problem too, paticularly on this topic? Strange.

jdaily wrote: Forum isn't turning the page. Strange, usually the 2nd post on a new page will fix things.

DutchGuy wrote: Strange things are happening. After four posts finally page 20 appeared and than it dissapeared again Edit : and now page 20 is back

This is a long standing ancient bug in Fred Miranda forums software that the admins have been fully informed about for many months. They promised they would fix it, but nothing gets done. In the meantime people are perplexed and waste time trying to fix their computers when it is a server problem. Threads get clogged like this one. Duplicate posts are made in other threads and then deleted and then reposted.

Fix it, please!

I'd rather see a fix for the vanishing threads problem. There's a tremendous amount of useful information that just goes up in smoke.

useful information

You think?

really?

mfoto wrote:

"The 30D looks like a great camera to me and for the price it will be tough to beat. Unless you are starting from scratch why compare with a D200?"

Because though being on nearly the same price level D200 seems to be in a different league with its much bigger viewfinder that enables you to use manual focus lenses, e.g. the german Zeiss ZF glass for Nikon F mount, soon to hit the shelves.
Now this is something that might have the potential to improve picture quality dramatically.
I think Canon 30D is such a huge disappointment, the camera still having the same tiny little amateur level viewfinder which makes it completely unfit for use with any manual focus lenses, e.g. the awesome Leica glass..
None of all the minor updates (facelifts) from Canon 20D to 30D can be expected to have any substantial implication on picture quality.

Kind regards
Steen Bondo