I have become hopelessly infected with the Leica bug and modified the miror on my 5D today to allow use of any and all of Leica's lenses. I taped down a tripod head on a flat well lit surface and mounted the 5D on the head to create a stable platform. I propped the mirror up to hold it about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom "down" resting position. I took a large sheet of Saran Wrap and cut a slit in it just smaller than the mirror and stretched it over the front edge of the mirror. After carefully tucking it around the mirror and leaving the front 1/4 inch exposed, I sealed the front edge with black photo tape. I placed the tape straight across the mirror to provide a straight reference for the mirror surgery. Bolstering up a large amount of steel cojones, I broke out the Dremel tool. I used a 3/4 inch cutting wheel to do the whole job. With as much care as I could, I slowly started removing the front edge of the mirror. The first thing I found was that no matter how carefull I was, the hard silvered surface of the mirror tended to chip away, leaving a ragged edge. I took off 2.5mm of the front edge, but left the plastic non mirror front side pieces. They have a "step" in them at about 2.5mm so this was a good benchmark for mirror removal. I think I did a pretty good job, the line is very straight across the front, but unfortunately the edge of the mirror is chipped and looks ragged.

I used the Leica 35mm 1.4 as the test for mirror removal as it extends into the mirror box as far as any Leica lens and it is also has the widest rear element.

Here is a picture of the modification:

Butch, you'll soon forget about the cosmetic appearance of the mirror once you get a chance to use your growing collection of Leica lenses with no issues. Congrats.

Now, if you find you don't like that 35 summilux you just picked up, just let me know and I can take it off of your hands.

Kurt

(Note to Self: Don't buy any Leica lenses)








Darrin

There is an other thread where this one should be moved to - contax destroys my 5D

no really that makes laughs, I hope u will have succes with it.
I
ts time that Leica or Zeiss Ikon bring out their digital M systems. And Guy, next you want to speak of one of your crazy ideas put it down on a piece of paper and stick it on the fridge at your home and leave it there for ever! :-) Andi

Nice mirror job!

Is there any reason to think that this mod will affect the use of any Canon lenses? I can't think of one, but you or someone might want to use Canon lenses now or in the future?

Also, with respect to the warranty, do you think it would be honored on all other parts of the camera, besides the mirror itself? (Or maybe you could try the :"Honest, the front edge of the mirror just fell off all by itself" story. )

I'm sort of thinking about resale value, here. I guess Guy will soon tell us whether the modified mirror substantially increases or decreases the value of the 5D.


I'm in the position of having the 5D and Leica glass myself. I also have the DMR/R9, but I'm thinking I'd rather have a modified 5D as a back-up than spring for another DMR.

My only concern (other than sweating bullets doing it) in modifying the mirror was whether there would be image cut-off in the finder on the top edge with long lenses. I tried putting a piece of black tape across the front edge of the mirror to check this before I did it. There was no loss of image in the finder with my 180 APO. There may be some with a really long lens, but I have nothing longer right now to test with.

handcoater wrote:
...
The first thing I found was that no matter how carefull I was, the hard silvered surface of the mirror tended to chip away, leaving a ragged edge.
...


Reading the procedure, a question came up. It sounds like you do the surgery with the mirror still attached to the camera and slightly lifted up. If so, I would be concerned that those sharp debris chipped away may reach the shutter curtain or left inside ?

The top and bottom surface of the mirror were protectd by the Saran Wrap and black photo tape. Only the exposed surface of the mirror, about 1/4 inch, is exposed and 2.5mm of that was cut off. The inside of the mirror box stayed remarkably clean.

Why would you need to mod the entire edge of the mirror? Maybe it is enough to just make two gaps on the right spots, where the mirror contact with the rear lens shroud. Even the rear glass of the 35/1.4 is recessed enough to clear the mirror.

LeSong,
There is at least one Leica Lens that will required the whole horizontal edge of the mirror to be cut off in order to clear it from the metal housing of the rear element. The Leica Super-Elmarit-R 15mm F2.8 is such lens with a huge (diameter) metal housing and lens rear element protruding out. Thus, it is necessary to cut the whole length of the edge of the mirror. However, with some other Leica wide angle lens, such as the 16mm F2.8 fisheye, you only need the middle part of the mirror lower edge to be shaved off to make it works.

-Son

The 35mm 1.4 is 35mm across the metal shroud where the mirror hits. I needed to do the whole width of the mirror as I did. At first I left a small amount of mirror tapered inside each edge and the mirror hit the back of the 35. When I removed the tapered area out to the black plastic edge then it cleared.

Hey, guys, I modded my mirror by grinding the edge down just slightly. the mirror edge looks ragged, all right, but it doesn't hit my zeiss 21 any more. that's the good new. the bad news is that i did manage to get dust iniside. i've blown it out with giotto rocket, cleaned the focusing screen, and cleaned the sensor (as long as i'm in there, i might as well be complete). however i see dust through the viewfinder that seems to be on the bottom of the prism since it doesn't move when i lift the mirror.

So, now how do i clean the prism??

thanks, Guy. it helped, but i still have some specks i can't dislogde; could they get on other surfaces of the prism?

no, it's not the screen; i can see the spots even with no screen installed. any idea what canon would charge to clean out the prism? i assume this wouldn't be covered by warranty.

just a thought , but couldnt you have the mirror laser cut? without hacking away at it?

Someone, who needs to do this mod, should do it the precision way: Buy a new mirror (or remove the original one), send it to me to be precision cut for free on my gem cutting machine) and then have Canon install it back into the camera.

Butch,
would it help the chipping if you placed more tape on the mirror and then drew a line along the tape as your cutting line? I'm thinking this might reduce the chipping as opposed to starting at the front and working your way back.

The tape might also reduce the cutting wheel slippage and further reduce the potential for chipping. When you say 3/4 cutting wheel - is that one of those very thin cut-off wheels that you use to cut bolts and nails?

Gero

Gero, yes that is the wheel I used. I don't know if the tape would help. The wheel cuts very slowly, the tape might just gum-up the edge of the cutting wheel and make a mess. A diamond cutting wheel may do a better job but I couldn't find one locally.

Gero, yes that is the wheel I used. I don't know if the tape would help. The wheel cuts very slowly, the tape might just gum-up the edge of the cutting wheel and make a mess. A diamond cutting wheel may do a better job but I couldn't find one locally.

I found that you can greatly minimize the raggedness of the edge by simply choosing something like a fine grade sanding/grinding attachment for the procedure if you are using a Dremel tool. This greatly reduces the stress on the mirror material and reduces chipping.

Also, to prevent dust/debris from entering the mirror box, you need to carefully mask off the mirror from the rest of the camera. (To visualize this: pretend you are an oral surgeon isolating a tooth you are working on from the rest of the mouth.) You can do this by taping plastic around the mirror and draping it tightly over the rest of the camera. When you are finished shaving the mirror, use a vacuum attachment to suck up any dust before removing the plastic.

Kurt

tom in mlps

You can clean that prism yourself; have done it a dozen times.

Unclip and lower screen carrier and remove screen (handle by that protruding tab, slightly RHS of carrier). Make sure you put it on a COMPLETELY clean surface!

Get a cotton bud (or tip, or whatever you call them over there) and some iso-propyl alcohol (or some agent that evaporates 100%). Just moisten the cotton bud (not wet), and put a 45 degree bend in the last third of it. Use that to clean the bottom of the prism while you look throught the finder the usual way; you will see the dust and be able to lift it away.

Blow the screen off (Guy may be right, but some canned air (CO2, esp.) can come out in solid pieces so I never use it; I use a really good blower bulb (no brush) to get any dust off, replace in the carrier, and press the carrier up until it seats properly to the bottom of the prism.

Finally, clean mirror same way; finder should be clear. hth, kit

well, I'll try it again, Kit, but I have tried to clean off the bottom surface of the prism. sure wish i'd read here about the saran wrap first.

I had to do a mirror mod on my 1Ds to accommodate the L15/2.8. Upon advice from another member, I used the Dremmel Diamond Wheel (#545). $14 at The Home Despot. My neighbor had a Dremmel with the flex shaft. The procedure is not as scary as you'd think. Most the time was spent is masking the camera beforehand. Removing the mirror on my 1Ds camera would not suffice, as the metal frame that holds the mirror in place also had to be ground back.

I have a stupid question =)
Mirror is glass right?
Why not get one of those glass scribes, score the glass, and snap it off... people still do that for *real* stained glass windows.. saw it on Discovery or TLC not too long ago..

Dont know if this place is reputable or not. just did a google search for stained glass..
$3.25 US
http://www.glassmart.com/standard_cutters.asp
=)

On the tv show.. they just scored it, and then gripped the scrap end with pliers and bent down...
Might have to score it a few times or something.. I dunno.. I'm just guessing here... but I know I sure as h*** wouldnt wanna stick my dremel into my current or any future camera =)

-Scott

It is not glass, but some sort of coated composite material. Son tried the score-and-snap method, but it does not work for various reasons.

Grinding/cutting in place seems to be the better solution.