That was memory, and it was regarding MS-DOS's 640kb limit on normal memory.

I personally think I can be happy with a 20D at least until its shutter wears out.

When replacing the 10D, Canon made a decision to go along with the Mk2's 8 MP sensor, but keeping the 10D's 1.6X crop. I'd like to see theat reversed. I don't mind 6 MP, but would prefer at least a 1.3X crop.

I think that the 20D is all the camera I need for now and am very impressed with it, can't afford anything more now, but here is what I would do to make my perfect camera.

Same size as 20D but, built on grip, I just can't live with... or without the BG-ED2 if you know what I mean... Still runs on two Lion BP-511A's

1.3 crop would be a nice compromise (cost cutting for Canon instead of full frame)
This would of course include larger, brighter viewfinder.

12 megapixels would be a great size and probably all that most of us would need.

Eye focus for the EOS 3 like fun factor

Larger buffer for RAW's, 5fps shooting for 24 frames would be nice

Canon please make this camera, then ship one to me for beta testing. Thanks

Sounds like you just described a 1D mkIII...

The only argument really is where the format is going --- I think consumers are pretty happy with the basic P&S's that are available now so that market will stay and probably kill off the last vestiges of the old minature type 35 MM non DSLR cameras that were used primarily for "Holiday Snaps". For example the Olympus 7070 is nearly as good as it gets in these type of stakes while Canon's S type cams are great for just slipping into small pockets and getting grab shots with.

If FF is going to be the mainstay of Pro work then a new possibly 22 MP top range camera will appear competing (maybe) with some digital MF gear. Possibly a FAST switchable resolution cam for sports, PJ, etc (1D2 users) while a slower version emphasised for studio, fine art and landscapes (1Ds2) .

Lenses are really the key issue -- the problem with smaller sensors is that it becomes increasingly possible to obtain narrow DOF's once you reduce the sensor size. 35 MM lenses represent the best compromise currently available -- and no one has come up with anything better yet.

Whilst I doubt whether most of us really NEED a 22 MP cam I'm sure it will arrive --but unlike computers and disk storage (IBM said all the desktop computers in the worldd wouldn't need a 20 MB disk or Bill gates saying nobody would need more main memory than 64Kb) we are getting to the stage where technology really has outdistanced our real need for it.

For example we can easily make cars capable of travelling at 300 kph (the new BMW M5/M6 to name but one) but for 99.9999% of the people on the planet it's just an irrelevance.

I'm actually quite happy with the cams I have now -- even (?) a 1D2 will make enlargements that most people wouldn't even have dreamt about making in film days.

I can't see myself upgrading anytime soon -- unless something totally revolutionary comes out.

-K

All I care for is a battery grip with the integration like the one on the film 1 series and the EOS 3. The grip on my EOS 3 feels so solid, the grip and camera might as well be one piece. The grip on my 20D feels like I can break it off. Other than that I'm more than happy with my 20D. I don't care for eye focus. The eye focus on my Elan 7NE was much better than the one on the EOS 3. Most likelly because there were only 7 points to control rather than the 45. And yes, I do calibrate for every lighting condition.

I really doubt a 1 series camera would come out this fall. Even if canon leaves the two 1 series seperate, it hasn't been very long for a 1 series camera yet. You would have a better bet in February 2006.

I doubt the 20D will be replaced since it will only be a year old. It is possible, but if they did it would be a really minor upgrade similar to the D60 to 10D.

The Mark II and the 20D are getting so close in price that I think they are killing any possibility for a 3D. The Mark II is moving into the 3D price range now.

The only camera that I think could be replaced in the fall would be the original Digital Rebel (not the XT). This is probably where Canon would make the most money and it is their oldest body. I think most people on this board will not be very excited by the replacement camera.

The eye-directed focus system that their film cameras have!
The ablility to change the focus screen
more FPS to compete with some of the nikon gear

I'm also hanging on to my 10D for the same reasons as zonkola and JeffBrowser, even though the 20D is a significant upgrade in two areas which I sort of need, better high ISO and a bit more speed. Still, until I start making som money on the stuff, I cant really justify the $. Moreover, some more ruggedness, like on the 1 series, is high on my which list too, so maybe I'll just wait until you can get a used 1D II for a reasonable price (below $2000?).

"Perfection is the enemy of good enough"...Stalin? Kruschev?

Anywho...I'm just gonna jump on the 1Ds2, because, its the first digital SLR I've seen that looks like chromes....enough.

An above poster is right, things are starting to flatten out, this is the prime-profit-development time for them, right this moment. I just WISH SD cards would GO AWAY. Argh. I will miss my no-kidding-two-slots feature of my D2000.

G.

As stated above, the new camera probably will be "cheaper". More features but for less $$$?

Mechanical quality has its price. The lenses did not become less expensive, did they. So as long as there are moving parts like the mirror etc in a camera, I want it to be of good mechanical quality - like cars.

I hope the trend will stop and the prices will not drop anymore - sounds strange

My speculation is that we will see some form of IS built into the body.

mbohunsky wrote:
All I care for is a battery grip with the integration like the one on the film 1 series and the EOS 3. The grip on my EOS 3 feels so solid, the grip and camera might as well be one piece.

I'd like that too, but for a different reason: the option to avoid the extra bulk of the grip, which isn't possible with the one-piece grip design used on the 1DmkII. Chalk it up to personal preference, but the grip adds too much weight and bulk for what I do--and apparently also for all the 1DmkII owners that use 20D's as their walkaround cameras.

I've heard guys say that the grip has to be built into the camera to feel solid, but I don't buy it. A cylinder head isn't integrated with an engine block, but try to wiggle one loose sometime. An solid-feeling, removable battery grip is absolutely possible from a mechanical standpoint.

Edited by zonkola on Apr 17, 2005 at 01:04 PM GMT

Kyle Yates wrote:
Whilst I doubt whether most of us really NEED a 22 MP cam I'm sure it will arrive --but unlike computers and disk storage (IBM said all the desktop computers in the worldd wouldn't need a 20 MB disk or Bill gates saying nobody would need more main memory than 64Kb) we are getting to the stage where technology really has outdistanced our real need for it.

For example we can easily make cars capable of travelling at 300 kph (the new BMW M5/M6 to name but one) but for 99.9999% of the people on the planet it's just an irrelevance.


Exactly correct. More, more, more is not the sole pattern of technological evolution. Many parameters reach a level where increasing them becomes irrelevant. In the case of resolution, once it reaches the point where medium format equivalent or so quality can be achieved affordably, resolution increases will only appeal to very specialized types of photograpy, probably in markets like medicine and astronomy.

Unless, of course, you really need that 100% crop to reveal the bacteria on your model's lower lip. Now that's sexy.

I'd love to see a 6 or 8mp full frame camera. I don't know if this is backwards thinking but I'd buy a consumer full frame version anyday. Tired of this crop business. Oh well I guess that's how the DSLR market goes.

Burning incense...

I don't think there are going to be new bodies in the near term, they seem to be aiming for a 3-4 year design cycle on the bodies. I think the current rebate on bodies is just semiconductor economics. The price of the CMOS sensor is going to decline maybe 15% a quarter, just like everything else made of CMOS. The marketing guys will disguise this with rebates and price drops, but I think bodies are going to be on a 10-15% price decline per quarter for a long time. It's just like buying Pentiums.

I think lens dispersion at any reasonable f-stop will limit max sensor resolution to ~40Mpixels. I think the next big thing will be characterized lenses with in-camera image processing. A lens might naturally have some barrel distortion or CA that gets corrected in-camera. This will give lens designers more flexibility in making trade-offs in lens designs for 3um pixels.

jeff

What I would like to see in the next camera would be:

*1.3 or Even Full framed (Doubtful) sensor with 11mp
*Eye control autofocus
*8fps
*A EOS 3 style grip
*Larger viewfinder
*Dust reduction system!!
*A live preview mode like the 20Da and S3 Pro (For awaked compositions)

I doubt that a larger sensor is on the cards but the other things on my wish list could be achived im shure.....

I hope to see one day:

* Progression towards a more "affordable" full frame camera, perhaps something in between like 1.15 if Canon still wants to milk the 1Ds line.
* ISO 50 and ISO 3200 standard with ISO 25 and ISO 6400 enabled via custom function
* Secondary shutter near the lens mount that closes when the lens is removed, remains open when lens is attached. Great for the prime user who constantly switches lens out in the field... like me.
* Larger LCD screen
* 10fps to match EOS 1V with motor drive
* Active metering on all 45 focus points. Why are we still limited with 9 max?

losloslos wrote:
"Perfection is the enemy of good enough"...Stalin? Kruschev?

Anywho...I'm just gonna jump on the 1Ds2, because, its the first digital SLR I've seen that looks like chromes....enough.

G.

the 1Ds2 doesn't look like chromes, it looks like color neg film. The 1Ds can be shot to look like chromes.

Edmund

My thoughts on what should happen next

1. I think we should forget about FF it ain't going to happen anythime soon, especially not on p/s cams like someone sugested earlier.

2. I'd like to see all DSLR manufacturers use Adobe Digital Negative is the standard for RAW files. Leica is using it for the module R, if everyone used it it would be like film days just drop it off at the processor and they sort it out. This would also enable manufacturers to devote more time to other aspects of the camera rather than wasting time developing unnecessary software when someone like Adobe can do a much better job.

3. I think the MP wars are just about over, I don't think 20D market cameras will go over 10MP since there is no need, it just wastes space on the PC. Canon would be better off improving the quality (which is bloody good already).

4. Spot metering on non 1 series bodies, not to hard to implement, everyone else does so why don't Canon.

5. I like my 20D it's all the camera I'm going to need for a very long time.

Here's my *uninformed* opinion in regards to the next consumer grade DSLR.

1. No change in megapixels. Nikon, Minolta & Pentax all have 6MP consumer SLR's and looking at the rumours for the D70s and D50 due anytime now, they'll be at the same 6MP mark as the current cameras. So far, the 8MP sensor of Canon is more than enough to "keep ahead" of the competition, at least for another generation.

2. No change in crop. The spanish "3D" interview a few months back talks about killing off the 1.3x sensor and keeping it at either FF or 1.6x crop. The 20D replacement (which won't happen for a while) will be a 1.6x crop. Anything above it will be FF.

3. A new (smaller?) body & a better grip

4. No eye control nor more focus points.

5. Probably a larger buffer

6. The same fps specs

7. A new EFs lens introduced (please let it be a 10mm EFs fisheye)

So essentially, it'll just be a minor upgrade (i.e. D60 -> 10D) to give it just enough features to be the best in its class. Anything more than that is wishful thinking.

Daniel Buck wrote:
These digital camera seem to be getting so good (Silky smooth ISOs, fast shutter speeds, large image files, near instant auto-focusing, and instant controls) that I kinda wonder when the rapid camera sales are going to stop because maybe Canon has outdone themselves (to a degree..), or maybe after the next slew of cameras it will not be worth the upgrade price because the cameras are so good?

I think what the major camera companies need to do is to bring the prices down, for the most part they all have super features, but are still very very expensive. Back in the day, my Father told me that if you dropped more than $500 down on a camera body, people would call you insane unless you were a working photographer professionaly. I would like to see those numbers return! Heck, I honestly don't know what all canon can "upgrade" to their latest D/DS cameras, aside from maybe more megapixels (though the files sizes are starting to get huge) and *possibly* even better ISO performance (possibly opening up smooth 3200 and 6400?) Honestly, what is left to upgrade?

Yeah, and the most my parents ever spent on a house was $100,000. (4br, 2 1/2 bath). I've been looking for one for the past year and cheapest we can find a 3br 1-1/2ba is 1/2 a mil. I'd be shocked if DSLR prices got much lower. You can pick up a 300D for under $600. Actually there was an article recently about how all the non-DSLR high end digitals were selling horribly because of this.

Ok my $.02. 12-18 months sees merging of 1 series and 20D upgrade which is 1.6x with 10 MP and Adobe RAW. 2 distinct camera lines emerge; FF pro 1 series and all other consumer cameras which will remain 1.6x format.

Some things I would like to see in the future

1) B&W digital camera. They could take a 20D right now and have a killer B&W only camera with incredible resolution at a really affordable cost.

2) Square format camera - 24x24mm. Never having to rtoate the camera again! Could get slightly more effective sensor area than 1.6x cameras! Have chip proces dropped enough that this would be a small premium over the 1.6x camera??

3) 24x30mm sensor camera. This would effectively be FF cropped done to the most common print sizes. If this could result in a significant cost reduction in the sensor it would be worth it.

4) Hi MP/Lo ISO & Lo MP/Hi ISO cameras. If you were willing to restrict yourself to lo ISO you could probably get quite hi MP coints even on 1.6x camera and if you would reduce MP you could get even higher sensitivities with less noise.

5) View or other type camera for Canons 35mm lenses with lens movements! Not as outlandish as you think.

6) Interchangeable lens rangefinder with whole new lens line.

What I have outlined is basically some of the many ways that DSLRs will become specialized. The next iteration of Canon cameras will see the maturation of the pro series and the consumer series is already basically there with the 20D. Of course they will continue to improve these cameras further, but it will be more evolutionary than revoilutionary. From there Canon will start to create cameras that are more specific to a particular use. This is when digital will get really interesting, because they will have to start thinking outside the box so to speak to create new cameras people want.

My wishlist would have to include:

Larger & brighter viewfinder
Spot metering
Full frame would be nice
Solid formed grip that does not feel like's it a seperate piece from the camera.
Better battery life
8fps instead of the 5fps, but can live with the 5fps
Weather sealed like the 1 series so I don't have to rush for cover when it starts raining
Happy with the 8Mp of the 20D, but 11Mp would be perfect as it would get as close to 35mm as I could care to be

And now that I've described a 1D MkII, I would like it for around $1599.

I doubt if canon is going to upgrade their camera's that frequently as the trend has been a new model every two years. However, I wish they would follow in the footsteps of Nikon's "F" series and provide a mind-blowing earth-shattering "F" body once every 10 years. Take their time, do their homework and provide a product that outlives it's competition for a decade. This would give them the edge and would make consumers happy knowing that their $1500 camera is going to be work 1/4 of the price they paid for it in 2 years.

zonkola wrote:
Some people here believe that the current rebates on the 20D and 1DmkII are an indication that Canon will be announcing a DSLR that would somehow appeal to both 20D and 1DmkII fans.

Realistically, what would you like this camera to be?

I would like a combo of the 1Ds MKII and 1D MKII.
Not sure whether there will be an upgrade for the 1D MKII this fall; but, there are definitely some new cameras from Canon coming this fall or sooner, and Canon is going to kick some butts again because Nikon just announced two new entry-level digital SLR cameras for the end of April
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05040802nikondslrs.asp