While others are suggesting the TSE lens, I have another idea. Place your camera in unusual places, up high, aimed down ad tiled and unusual angles. Try to forget which way is up, which way gravity is pulling. But don't forget the basic rules of composition, leading line, framing and rule of thirds. make sure you have a strong subject in each image, not just a photo of a room.



Congrats and have fun,

Jon

gdstaples wrote:
I would recommend they spend a full day cleaning the place up and painting a few of the rather grungy looking areas. That place looks like a pig stye at the moment - certainly would not be showing that to any perspective clients if I was them.

My thoughts exactly, they need to spend a week cleaning up the place , Paint the walls, new flooring , funiture, arrange the place. Lighting and TSE's are the least of your problems. Make everyone get hair cuts , wear suits etc.

Good Luck.

I have another aspect to add to the mix--complicating things or clearing things up, I'm not sure.
You mentioned that the main purpose of these shots is to work into an ad/brochure. It seems like the photography could go a number of different ways. But it is ultimately based on the message and the layout.

I'm a professional graphic designer/art director. Usually I hire photographers or work with photographers up front before they shoot. It's always more complicated if I'm handed photographs that I have to work around--especially if the photographs are not compatible with the idea that I need to communicate.

My questions are:
What is the message of the ad campaign/brochure?
Have you talked to the designer/art director to get a sense of what they might want, the message they want to communicate for the project? How they may want to frame things to work in the layout? If the main role of this photography work is to fit into an ad campaign or brochure layout, it might be nice to have that info upfront--other that just having hip/cool photographs that may or may not work in the potential design.

The client may see this as something they can hand off to a designer to work with, but it always ends up being a better piece, for the photographer and the designer, if it is thought about upfront.

Just my 2 cents.

You've gotten some good suggestions. I'm learning myself (who isn't?), so I have a few things to add based on my experiences and education.

Shooting these "digi-roids" is great. Gets you thinking before arriving. Great start.

You need more than one day. Limit yourself to 4-6 shots per day. Anymore and your going to run out of time and creativity.

Find an assistant. Anyone that can help you move lights... move props. Direct people. They don't need to know anything about photography. They just have to be friendly.

Open up those curtains! Don't forget you can shoot at twilight. Use tungsten lights and WB to get those windows blue. It'll add some pop to the room. You can get a good tungsten light setup at the local hardware store for $200-$300 USD.

Get them to CLEAN. If the place isn't straight when you arrive you'll be shooting even less than the 4-6 shots per day because you'll be cleaning.

Friend or not - negotiate the creative fee and usage now. This job looks like a real challenge. If they are paying you a creative fee then they won't have you cleaning up the joint. They'll want it to be clean and ready for you to come in and get to work.

Try to solve as much as you can in the camera. Using the 24TSE is a good example, but a quick fix in the computer. Hiding clutter, your lights, cords, etc is more important. Making sure props are properly placed. Lights "you see" in the shot are on. Cleaning up that place in Photoshop will be real time consuming. You'll spend a lot longer than a day in on the computer fixing images. Charge for that too. If they aren't going to clean... charge them hourly to fix the images in post.

I'm not in a position where I can price myself out of a job yet. Each one is important. This is one I would have given a real high number too. Like shooting a friends wedding... No.

I understand what your dealing with. Just take it all in... do your best with the tools you have and try your best to EXCEED the customers expectation.

Hope this helps... Good Luck!

I shoot mainly landscapes so this assignment is way off of my beaten path... but hey, advice is free and worth every penny you paid for it!

The computer moniters could be major characters in the final shots; so I suggest you find some 'edgy' images, beforehand, to put on the monitors - have a list of websites you can go to (copyright issues may not let you use these though) or have the client supply some of their 'edgy' colourful work to put on the screens.

Speaking of monitors: The shots you posted make it look like the client has only big old CRTs - try to find some flat panels to use so they look like a hip, cool, edgy up-to-date shop (at least for the CD's office).

Good luck and please let us know how things worked out.
-----
dan

gdstaples wrote:
I would recommend they spend a full day cleaning the place up and painting a few of the rather grungy looking areas. That place looks like a pig stye at the moment - certainly would not be showing that to any perspective clients if I was them.


I would concure, also Get them to considder fixing the carpet in several areas, Those bubbles can be reglued in a matter of hours...< how i put my wife throught school. my eyes were imediately draw to the clutter and confusion then to the only open space the floor :S

Lunatique: wat part of china r u in ? im in shanghai

JoeArndt - I saw more than several girls there, I guess they just happen to not be in the shot. In fact, when one girl saw me pointing a camera into the post production room, she screamed "Nooo!", giggled, and ran out of the room. *sigh*

EmJayPrice - They want edgy, so I guess a non-perfect line is just what they'd find "edgy." !

HighRev - Long exposure is a great idea. I shall plan for that. I'll be shooting during a regular work day, but the employees will be told to cooperate and pose as I ask.

gdstaples - Yeah, these dingy sweatshops couldn't be bothered to spend any more money than they have to to keep the place running. Totally stingy as hell. I told them they need to clean up and get some flowers/plants into the place.

mbwkrause - I'm supposed to shoot both people and enviroment together--to show a lively working enviroment. Some shots will only have pools of light with dark ambience, while other shots like the meeting room will be well-lit.

MikeDitz - Good suggestions. Thanks!

JoeArndt - Tight shots of people interacting will be needed, but there will definitely be wider shots too, just to cover the bases. If they place is just too crappy to look good wide, then they could always not use those shots.

Guy - I might not tether to the laptop if I can help it for another important reason--they have a few people there who think of themselves as some kind of creative genius--and not to be arrogant or anything, their work pales next to my creative portfolio as an artist, writer, and director. If I tether to a lap top, those guys will most definitely stand behind the laptop and start calling out comments and suggestions and talk among themselves and talk AT me. I do not need that kind of bullshit from them when I shoot. I could right off the bat tell the boss to keep those people on a leash, but I don't think it'll cure the problem entirely. Those guys are exactly the type with no real talent, but know how to kiss ass and pretend like they contribute a lot to the company. You know they type--we've all seen them. No way in hell they'll refrain from "contributing" to this shoot. Especially when a previous shoot was done by one of them, and was scrapped because it wasn't up to par. This guy will try hard to "redeem" himself by talking at me when I shoot--I just know it. He would have the balls to do it too because he's a director there. I could just tell the boss to keep the guy out of the office for the whole day, but that's being really extreme, and I don't want to make trouble since I'm really doing this as a favor for a friend.

JoeArndt - Don't worry about it. Just a small time CG visualization house in Fuzhou, Fujian. No way you or anyone you know will ever come across them. And the truth is, just about all the CG houses are this bad in China--except for the bigger and more profitable ones. Remember, this is a backwater city in China, not Shanghai or Beijing.

mickr7an - I'm doing it really as a favor for a friend. He could choose to not pay me, or he could choose to pay me--it doens't matter to me either way, because I know they can't afford to pay jack Sh$t anyway. I only agreed to do it because I want the experience--to challenge myself so I can feel confident in the future about taking on professional shoots even though I don't do it for a living.

The guy did try to explain what "edgy" means to him, and he sounded like a frikkin' baffoon. He said, "I want it to look like that fishbowl effect where everything's all distorted and funny lookin'. You know, really ALTERNATIVE and stuff." Right there and then I knew this director guy is a f$cking hack. I turned to his boss and told him, "You gotta think twice about that. Brochures are there to show how professional and productive your company is, not to show how much fun you guys have at work." The director guy then shut up for a long time.

alanS - Top shot IS the CEO's office. Yeah, I know. Embarrassing.

They're redesigning the entire brochure anyway (the previous version was like an 8.5x11 fold out style). In fact, if I tell them how to design it, they will listen. No one in that company has more qualification than I do as an artist or director, so the boss will respect my input.

cbfount - I totally agree about the line. To hell with it. I'll strategically place people in the right area and choose interesting angles.

Guy - I'm most likely doing it for free. ! But the experience I gain from this will be far more valuable than what they can pay me.

dave unwin - I don't think I've ever spent a penny on plugins. I might consider it.

Dave Baker - that's an awesome site! So damn funny!

Mr645 - I'll be sure to try some creative angles. Thanks for the suggestion!

Tom Hicks - CG houses hate suits. They all want to look like hightech hippies.

naypay - I've talked with them extensively yesterday about everything. They essentially want the place to look energetic and lively, with lots of creative energy.

mgibson80 - I will have plenty of people to order around. Lots of employees there that will jump hoops if the boss asks.

I have to do it all in a day. No choice. I will swim or drown--we'll find out by the end of tomorrow.

dan - They can't even afford to pay me for the shoot, LCD monitors are way out of ther league. I'll have all the employees put cool 3D stuff on their monitors.

Grouse - I told them to fix up the place and beautify it as much as possible. The rest is up to them.

J___ - I'm in Fuzhou, Fujian.

rob
i'm not known for my love of buying plugins either mate, this one's free!
panotools
i only use it when i have to, but it might come in handy
good luck
dave

Thanks for the tip!

Ok, I just ran into my first problem:

I tried to practice for the 2nd curtain slow exposure for that "people trailing by" look. BUT, I don't have a hotshoe flash--I only have monolights. I've set the 1D MKII's Custom Function 15 to 2nd Curtain, got my shutter down to .5 second to about 2 seconds. What happens is that the monolights always fire at th press of the shutter--NOT at the end of the exposure. I'm not sure if it's because they're monolights and not hotshoe flashes like the Speedlites. I figured out a way to remedy it, which is to have people actually walk backwards so the streaking will be in the right direction. Is that the only workaround I have?

I've also discovered that if I want the ambient tunsten light to really show and be in harmony with the monolights, I'd have to fire the lights at the lowest power setting (5% on a 600 WS with blue colored gel), set the shutter to 1/30, ISO to about 500, and f stop to f/5.6 (for reasonable DOF without totally blurring the backdrop). If I bring the ISO down, then either the shutter will have to slow down to compensate, or the f stop will have to open up, and I don't want either to happen. Thank God the 1D MKII's high ISO performance is the best available on the market, or I'd be screwed.

I tried a giant softbox on kitchen table and chairs, and it looks too soft--not sure if I want that for the meeting room shots. I'll do more tests and see what I come up with.

Only dedicated flash can do second curtain sync for Canon. You can't do this using PC socket. Great idea... walking backwards, I think that will work.

Yup use slow exposure for most of your shots. Will create stunning effects. For computers, limit the focused space. Adding blue light (gel on flash) at the back of the PC monitor and shooting from there. This will paint a little bit of blue hue and will give it a cyber look. Print enlarged copies of their designs and add it as your subject on the design room making somebody holding it while one is referring to it while using the computer. Use anything that will make your shots modern and techno looking. This theme will match the company profile.

" BUT, I don't have a hotshoe flash--I only have monolights" -- Robert Chang (Lunatique)

Ok, here are some practice shots I took at home today. I basically tried to work out how to get that techno computer graphics company look.

Mixing blue colored gel with ambient tunsten and flourescent lights:


The streaking ghost test:



As you can see, not having a hotshoe flash in this situation really sucks, but I'm holding out for the new 580, and will not buy a 550 or any other flash just for this shoot. Like I mentioned, I'll just have people walk backwards.

Furnitures lit with big softbox test:

Not sure if I like the look. I might use three monolights without the softboxes and see if the lighting looks more interesting.

Blue, red, and yellow colored gel test:

Elena in her most unflattering moment--doing facial mud mask and being my guinea pig at the same time. I think I'll light the post production room with this color scheme.


The facial mud mask washed off.


To simulate the computer screen illuminating her face, I had a softboxe with the sides taped off with black cloth so it's about the size of a 17" monitor. However, the background lights become too dull, and without the colors, the shot loses that techno feel.


Swapped out the blue and red for purple and orange. I think I'll use this color scheme for the "group crowded in front of a workstation to discuss idea" shots.


With the purple toned down, you lose the techno feel. So basically cold colors are what's contributing to the techno feel.


BUT, if you fade the orange, it becomes too cold and errie. Must have both warm and cold to get that lively yet hightech look.


Blowing out the background a bit has a different kind of look. Not sure if I can use it for this shoot though.


Although the orange is faded some in this shot, but as long as its presence is tangible, it'll keep the scene from being too cold.


If I crop lower, I lose the vivid purple near the ceiling, and it actually make the image less lively.


Taking the saturation up on the image really makes it more lively.


If the orange fades out just enough so that it looks like the purple transitions into pink, the warmth is still enough to keep the scene pleasant and not too cold.

So anyway, that's my experimentation so far. I'll do more as I think up more stuff. The shoot has been pushed back to the upcoming Monday (the creative director has to go out of town for business), so I have more time to practice.

Edited by Lunatique on Oct 20, 2004 at 11:05 PM GMT

If you can make that place look exciting in only a day for several shots then you manage any shoot that comes your way!

I agree with most of the others that 'tight' shots will disguise the tatty appearance of most of the rooms, and that pools of light for some of the shots will also help. Just watch out with the 'pools' as they can really bring out the creases in the carpet if the creases angle the wrong way.

Ian

P.S. In response to one of the earlier posts, the Sigma 12-24mm actually has lower distortion than many wide primes, but is noticeably soft in comparison to a good prime.

Talk about a difficult job. I am stating the obvious, as well as chiming in after others' comments, but this is a tough one. The floors, ceilings, walls and workspaces are completely unattractive, so I would emphasize shots that have extreme out of focus backgrounds, as well as make the beautiful people be in the shots.

Good luck.

Edited by abiggs on Nov 13, 2004 at 05:24 PM GMT

Don't sweat the missing Firewire connection.
If you have a pcmcia slot, and if you don't, it's time to upgrade the laptop, then you can buy a firewire adapter (about $30) from Compusa/bestbuy/ etc and plug it in the pcmcia slot. Works like a charm with my compaq windows xp home version.

You can do 2nd curtain sync with a Pocket Wizard MultiMAX.

Rob,

one thing you should do since this seems to be a design as you go piece is do a pencil sketch of what the brochure will be. this should show the different pictures needed, size, positon and placement along with "greeked copy" . With this you and your client have an understanding of the specific shots required (number, type, size), as well as seeing how much space is allowed for text information. you and your client have then reached an understanding on what is needed to complete the assignment.

If there are changes required then you can charge for "additional work"

all the best

alan

good luck.. looks like fun

This is a big learning experience for me just reading of Rob's exploits and all of the super advice from guys like Guy.

Good luck Rob!!

Anxiously awaiting the next installment......

This has got to be a tough way to make a living.

Wouldn't shooting porn be a lot more lucrative -- and fun?

JoeArndt wrote:
This has got to be a tough way to make a living.

Wouldn't shooting porn be a lot more lucrative -- and fun?


Joe , again you have opened your mouth and removed all doubt ...........

Good luck Rob and make sure to have Fun

J

Alan - Sure will. When I was planning for my wedding, I took pictures of the location, and then went home and designed how I wanted the ceremony to look in Photoshop--just straight painting in all the stuff I want to use to decorate the place with.

Daniel M. - I would much rather shoot glamour or fashion--or even porn (think Playboy or Perfect 10, not Penthouse or Hustler). Now, THAT is a lot more fun.

UFO™ - That's precisely why I decided to share the whole experience, because I can learn from others, while others can also learn with me.

JoeArndt - Read my comment above about porn.

Guy - Totally agree. I wish people would post more behind the scenes stuff--particular regarding problem solving. I think what Roley does is awesome--he shows each step of the way, and it's always fun to read his little adventures.

jmcfadden - If I lived anywhere near you guys, I'd kidnap a few of you so we could have a ball on shooting day.

Mr Arndt,
If That Is All You Have To Offer, With Your Other Troll Posts,
Why Don't You Keep Your Mouth, Comments To Yourself...
Or Better, Yet Just Go Away!
This Would Be A Far Better Place With Out You,
And Your Seemingly Unending Effort To Create Controversy...

Rob,
Good Luck On What Appears To Be Quite An Adventure...

John R

I think sense of humor, and the ability to listen to all kinds of advice from realistic to obscure, whether taken or not, treating each with respect and warmth, is a gift.

Rob, you've got it.

Congratulations.