New Sony E-mount 20mm f/2.8 pancake announced
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mawz
Registered: Sep 11, 2005
Total Posts: 7856
Country: Canada

Lee Saxon wrote:
Hope it's drastically better than the 16...


Considering the 16 is actually a pretty good lens (Comparable in performance on the NEX-7 to the Nikkor 24/2.8 on a D600) that's asking for a bit much. The 16 gets panned, but as a $200 wide lens which is sharp everywhere except the extreme corners I think people are asking a wee bit much from it. I'm hoping for better performance at the extreme corners from the 20, but overall if the rest of the performance from the 20 is comparable to the 16, it'll be on my list.

The only real problem with the 16 is poor QC at the factory, there's a number of bad copies floating around. But a good copy is a surprisingly good lens, comparable or better than just about anything in its pricerange. And yes, the Samsung 16 is in fact better, but that's an outstanding lens for the money, the Sony is merely a very good lens.



ocean2059
Registered: Jul 16, 2008
Total Posts: 586
Country: United States

mawz wrote:
Lee Saxon wrote:
Hope it's drastically better than the 16...


Considering the 16 is actually a pretty good lens (Comparable in performance on the NEX-7 to the Nikkor 24/2.8 on a D600) that's asking for a bit much. The 16 gets panned, but as a $200 wide lens which is sharp everywhere except the extreme corners I think people are asking a wee bit much from it. I'm hoping for better performance at the extreme corners from the 20, but overall if the rest of the performance from the 20 is comparable to the 16, it'll be on my list.

The only real problem with the 16 is poor QC at the factory, there's a number of bad copies floating around. But a good copy is a surprisingly good lens, comparable or better than just about anything in its pricerange. And yes, the Samsung 16 is in fact better, but that's an outstanding lens for the money, the Sony is merely a very good lens.


I am also pretty happy with my copy of the 16.



ryankarr
Registered: Sep 25, 2009
Total Posts: 999
Country: Canada

I'm sad that Sony's almost though their roadmap, and the fastest lens is only a 1.8



Jacob D
Registered: Mar 30, 2009
Total Posts: 1757
Country: United States

20mm seems like an odd choice, I wonder if this has anything to do with the popularity of a certain m4/3 20mm pancake?

Now we'll have 2x f/2.8 pancakes with an difference in angle of view of, what, maybe 10 degrees?

Where's our 90/1.8 ??! c'mon Sony!



ken.vs.ryu
Registered: Apr 24, 2005
Total Posts: 3498
Country: N/A

There's already a 30mm macro, 35mm normal, and 24mm wide. This is a nice way to fill the gap.



zhangyue
Registered: Jan 28, 2011
Total Posts: 2764
Country: United States

ryankarr wrote:
I'm sad that Sony's almost though their roadmap, and the fastest lens is only a 1.8

I agree. Another pancake? I doubt hobbyist will buy a bunch of 2.8 pancake and casual shoot want a bunch of prime with almost overlap their zoom. What is wrong with Sony lens dept.

FUJI's roadmap are way more sexy. And their 35 is outstanding. Build quality seems also high. My next aps-c won't be Sony anymore unless they introduce something major either new body or fast glass.



zhangyue
Registered: Jan 28, 2011
Total Posts: 2764
Country: United States

ken.vs.ryu wrote:
There's already a 30mm macro, 35mm normal, and 24mm wide. This is a nice way to fill the gap.

I want make sure this is real or humor



alwang
Registered: Sep 02, 2011
Total Posts: 1034
Country: United States

zhangyue wrote:
ryankarr wrote:
I'm sad that Sony's almost though their roadmap, and the fastest lens is only a 1.8

I agree. Another pancake? I doubt hobbyist will buy a bunch of 2.8 pancake and casual shoot want a bunch of prime with almost overlap their zoom. What is wrong with Sony lens dept.

FUJI's roadmap are way more sexy. And their 35 is outstanding. Build quality seems also high. My next aps-c won't be Sony anymore unless they introduce something major either new body or fast glass.


I don't know, this pancake lens makes perfect sense to me. I use the Sigma 19/2.8 as my casual snap-shot lens: I've found it the perfect focal length, and for casual shooting, f2.8 is fine with the NEX-5N's high ISO capabilities, even indoors. If the lens was even smaller, like this one, you can pretty much take that camera anywhere. I won't buy it, since I already have the Sigma, but if Sony sells this lens as a kit with the NEX-5R, I'm pretty sure it would be their most popular option.

Fuji's 35 does look quite good, but I've been playing around with the new Sony 35/1.8, and it appears excellent as well. I would much rather have OSS than the half stop between 1.4 and 1.8.



zhangyue
Registered: Jan 28, 2011
Total Posts: 2764
Country: United States

alwang wrote:
zhangyue wrote:
ryankarr wrote:
I'm sad that Sony's almost though their roadmap, and the fastest lens is only a 1.8

I agree. Another pancake? I doubt hobbyist will buy a bunch of 2.8 pancake and casual shoot want a bunch of prime with almost overlap their zoom. What is wrong with Sony lens dept.

FUJI's roadmap are way more sexy. And their 35 is outstanding. Build quality seems also high. My next aps-c won't be Sony anymore unless they introduce something major either new body or fast glass.


I don't know, this pancake lens makes perfect sense to me. I use the Sigma 19/2.8 as my casual snap-shot lens: I've found it the perfect focal length, and for casual shooting, f2.8 is fine with the NEX-5N's high ISO capabilities, even indoors. If the lens was even smaller, like this one, you can pretty much take that camera anywhere. I won't buy it, since I already have the Sigma, but if Sony sells this lens as a kit with the NEX-5R, I'm pretty sure it would be their most popular option.

Fuji's 35 does look quite good, but I've been playing around with the new Sony 35/1.8, and it appears excellent as well. I would much rather have OSS than the half stop between 1.4 and 1.8.


Some want 20mm, some want 30, some want 18, some want 16mm, I don't argue this lens might make perfect sense to you. But Majority Hobbyist want fast 35 or 50 FF equivalent glass for a system to be complete.

Once they have 23(35), 35(50), 56(85) f1.4, they can introduce whatever they want. It is all about priority.

As for f1.8 lens, I agree it is good. With more experienced photographer, f1.8 and f1.4 difference may not that big, but 1.8 always be lower end design compare f1.4 counterpart in any system. Extra speed always welcome, not only for light gather, but also DOF control.






sebboh
Registered: Nov 02, 2009
Total Posts: 10530
Country: United States

zhangyue wrote:
Some want 20mm, some want 30, some want 18, some want 16mm, I don't argue this lens might make perfect sense to you. But Majority Hobbyist want fast 35 or 50 FF equivalent glass for a system to be complete.


but it is clear sony isn't targeting hobbyists with this lens, so it makes perfect sense to me.

zhangyue wrote:
Once they have 23(35), 35(50), 56(85) f1.4, they can introduce whatever they want. It is all about priority.


sony thinks they will hit a bigger market targeting videographers with OS and keeping size down. i suspect they are actually right about this.

zhangyue wrote:
As for f1.8 lens, I agree it is good. With more experienced photographer, f1.8 and f1.4 difference may not that big, but 1.8 always be lower end design compare f1.4 counterpart in any system. Extra speed always welcome, not only for light gather, but also DOF control.


slower lenses are not always a lower end design, but it is usually the case. leica and zeiss both have nice examples of their f/2 lenses being higher end designs than their f/1.4 lenses.



alwang
Registered: Sep 02, 2011
Total Posts: 1034
Country: United States

zhangyue wrote:

Once they have 23(35), 35(50), 56(85) f1.4, they can introduce whatever they want. It is all about priority.


Sony already has a 24/1.8, a 35/1.8, and a 50/1.8, so really, we're just back to debating f1.4 vs f1.8. I agree that half-stop can make a difference, but personally it's not something I'm losing sleep over when choosing a camera system. Also, my experience playing with these two systems is that the AF systems are pretty hit-or-miss at these narrow DoFs, and I'd rather manual focus anyway. And I have plenty of faster MF glass if I need that DoF control.



mcbroomf
Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Total Posts: 2374
Country: United States

Somewhat related to the announcement perhaps .. this offer is for the 19 and 30 sigma 2.8's for $200 the pair (I saw a link in Getdpi)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/913513-REG/Sigma__19mm_f_2_8_DN_f_SONY.html

m43 too although currently on BO
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/913512-REG/Sigma__19mm_f_2_8_DN_f_OLYMPS_PAN.html



sebboh
Registered: Nov 02, 2009
Total Posts: 10530
Country: United States

alwang wrote:
zhangyue wrote:

Once they have 23(35), 35(50), 56(85) f1.4, they can introduce whatever they want. It is all about priority.


Sony already has a 24/1.8, a 35/1.8, and a 50/1.8, so really, we're just back to debating f1.4 vs f1.8. I agree that half-stop can make a difference, but personally it's not something I'm losing sleep over when choosing a camera system. Also, my experience playing with these two systems is that the AF systems are pretty hit-or-miss at these narrow DoFs, and I'd rather manual focus anyway. And I have plenty of faster MF glass if I need that DoF control.



+1 to the manual focus, except there really isn't much for a fast 24mm. OS could be nice though.



Fred Miranda
Registered: Dec 31, 2001
Total Posts: 17782
Country: United States

New Sony E-mount 20mm f/2.8 pancake announced
Sony has announced the E 20mm f/2.8 pancake prime lens for its NEX cameras. It weighs 2.4oz and with a depth of just 0.8 inches offering a 30mm equivalent field of view.

It's designed with 6 elements (3 aspherical) in 6 groups, with a 7-blade aperture. Minimum focusing distance is 7.8 inches for a maximum magnification of 0.12x.
It has an internal stepping autofocus motor, a high quality metal finish and a 49mm filter diameter.

The new E-mount 20mm f/2.8 pancake will be available in April for $348.

Pre-order it at B&H Photo:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/913561-REG/sony_sel20f28_20mm_f_2_8_alpha_e_mount.html



Jacob D
Registered: Mar 30, 2009
Total Posts: 1757
Country: United States

(Wow, that Sigma Deal is smoking hot!)

It seems as if Sony is re-thinking their lens lineup on the fly. I'm not saying this is bad, improvement is always welcome, but short term it's starting to feel like there is quite a bit of duplication with the low-mid range lenses.

18-55 vs. 16-50
18-200 vs. newer 18-200
16/2.8 vs. 20/2.8

If they were to do something with pancakes like 20mm, 35mm, 60mm... I think that would be a nice set to have for keeping things small, light, and relatively inexpensive. I Don't know where the 16mm fits in, maybe it just goes away over time with the 10-18 cleaning up house in the ultrawide range.



zhangyue
Registered: Jan 28, 2011
Total Posts: 2764
Country: United States


but it is clear sony isn't targeting hobbyists with this lens, so it makes perfect sense to me.

I wonder the same thing, what is this target for. Amateur have their kit lens there.


sony thinks they will hit a bigger market targeting videographers with OS and keeping size down. i suspect they are actually right about this.

I seldom shoot video, but are they require more DOF, speed than OS/IS thing?


slower lenses are not always a lower end design, but it is usually the case. leica and zeiss both have nice examples of their f/2 lenses being higher end designs than their f/1.4 lenses.


Yes, but we canít compare Sony with Leica/Zeiss, unless they put APO on it take a look of Canikon offer. Nikon 35f1.8 is $200 lens, and 501.8G FF is $250 851.8G is $500 compare to 1.4G range from Ĺ to 1/6 price difference. There is nothing wrong with that as I still have 501.8G and bought my father 351.8G and brother in Law 851.8G. But Sony in need a f1.4 prime than a f2.8 panake. 30mm(FF) is odd focal length to me as well.

alwang wrote:
zhangyue wrote:
Once they have 23(35), 35(50), 56(85) f1.4, they can introduce whatever they want. It is all about priority.

Sony already has a 24/1.8, a 35/1.8, and a 50/1.8, so really, we're just back to debating f1.4 vs f1.8. I agree that half-stop can make a difference, but personally it's not something I'm losing sleep over when choosing a camera system. Also, my experience playing with these two systems is that the AF systems are pretty hit-or-miss at these narrow DoFs, and I'd rather manual focus anyway. And I have plenty of faster MF glass if I need that DoF control.


I agree I have prejudice about f1.4, but donít most people have that? I did a quick search at BH for sony prime lens offer range from $100 to $500 (other than Zeiss 24mm), most of them are low end f2.8 lens with fastest f1.8. Only time can tell if it is right market decision or not. But seems Sony target more to lower end market right now compare to FUJIís offer, that can also be seen from their build quality difference as well. I just feel this 20f2.8 is much less needed than a 23f1.4 or 35f1.4 to me.

My preference would be they introduce f1.4 lens first to establish the system and then slowly bring out lower end f1.8 and f2.8 prime lens over time other than vise versa.

NEX7 is exciting camera but I canít say same thing about their lens. That is all.

My personal opinion about this lens is not needed! But obviously this lens is not targeting me. And the system also not so much anymore consider myself want to get FUJI as my next APS system.

But I could be wrong about market choice of this introduce and system road map. Because most things I am interested are either out of business or going out of business any way.

In that regard, I am open minded.





douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6051
Country: United States

To be honest, I wish Sony would have made the 24mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses with an aperture of f2, rather than f1.8, if it meant those lenses would be smaller. With digital, you rarely actually get a whole stop difference between f1.4 and f2 (and the manufacturers boost exposure internally so that you don't know otherwise,) so the difference between f1.8 and f1.4 isn't a big deal.



zhangyue
Registered: Jan 28, 2011
Total Posts: 2764
Country: United States

douglasf13 wrote:
To be honest, I wish Sony would have made the 24mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses with an aperture of f2, rather than f1.8, if it meant those lenses would be smaller. With digital, you rarely actually get a whole stop difference between f1.4 and f2 (and the manufacturers boost exposure internally so that you don't know otherwise,) so the difference between f1.8 and f1.4 isn't a big deal.


Again, here is not only light gather but extra freedom of DOF control always be good.



sebboh
Registered: Nov 02, 2009
Total Posts: 10530
Country: United States

zhangyue wrote:
I seldom shoot video, but are they require more DOF, speed than OS/IS thing?


for handheld video the OS is much more useful than an extra half stop of light and slightly narrower dof.

zhangyue wrote:
But seems Sony target more to lower end market right now compare to FUJIís offer, that can also be seen from their build quality difference as well.


yup.

zhangyue wrote:
NEX7 is exciting camera but I canít say same thing about their lens. That is all.


agreed, their lenses aren't terribly exciting to me either. though the 35/1.8 looks very attractive as going out at night lens. too bad the focus by wire seems a bit sketchy.

zhangyue wrote:
My personal opinion about this lens is not needed! But obviously this lens is not targeting me. And the system also not so much anymore consider myself want to get FUJI as my next APS system.

But I could be wrong about market choice of this introduce and system road map. Because most things I am interested are either out of business or going out of business any way.

In that regard, I am open minded.


i agree that fuji is doing a much better job targeting the higher end market. sony has always kinda sucked at that, not realizing the level of committed necessary to attract that market. for the low end market their choices make good sense to me though.

i'd like to try some of fuji's lenses, but so far they haven't come out with a camera i like as much as the NEX-7, and my shooting will always be mostly manual focus.



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6051
Country: United States

zhangyue wrote:
douglasf13 wrote:
To be honest, I wish Sony would have made the 24mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses with an aperture of f2, rather than f1.8, if it meant those lenses would be smaller. With digital, you rarely actually get a whole stop difference between f1.4 and f2 (and the manufacturers boost exposure internally so that you don't know otherwise,) so the difference between f1.8 and f1.4 isn't a big deal.


Again, here is not only light gather but extra freedom of DOF control always be good.



I agree, but it's a matter of weighing size vs. DOF control. For me, f2 would probably be the sweetspot for size vs. DOF control with aps-c mirrorless, considering how relatively large the f1.4 and f1.8 offerings are from Fuji and Sony. The Fuji 35 f1.4 is considerably larger than a 50 Summicron-M, and it still doesn't quite have the shallow DOF of a 50 Summicron on an M9.

For someone like me, who carries a camera across my body on a strap all day, lens length is probably the most important dimension of a camera. I'd happily add 10mm to the height or width of every mirrorless camera out there, if it meant that I could reduce that depth (including lens length) 10mm. The lens sticking out is what I'm always bumping into things, and that third dimension makes it tough to put in things like coat pockets. The flatter the better, IMO. Of course, you're talking to someone who prefers the 50 Summicron collapsable over the newer 50 Summimcron, so maybe I'm fanatical.

If I was still shooting NEX often (I have an old NEX-5 for video and backup,) I'd probably get this little 30/2.8, although it would have been great if Sony would have copied the Samsung 30/2. I actually just bought the crappy little 16-50 powerzoom for my NEX-5, so that I have an easily packable video camera/wife camera that can still be used as an emergency backup for me.



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