Different guy

I know we are all trying to save money and get the best deal, but I always remind members to avoid gift payments at all costs.

Fred, if you really want people to avoid PayPal gift, you could simply ban it as a payment alternative on the Buy/Sell forum. Simply remove the temptation to scam PayPal out of its 3% fee and the problem is solved.

John

Method of payment is not controlled through this forum. The buy & sell forum is merely a medium for two parties to meet and work out any details they see fit.

BluesWest wrote:
I know we are all trying to save money and get the best deal, but I always remind members to avoid gift payments at all costs.

Fred, if you really want people to avoid PayPal gift, you could simply ban it as a payment alternative on the Buy/Sell forum. Simply remove the temptation to scam PayPal out of its 3% fee and the problem is solved.

John

How do you propose he becomes involved in a private transaction?

+1, Ronnie

IMHO it is not Fred's responsibility to save us from ourselves. What also is obvious is that folks on here, Fred's admonitions against using PP gift notwithstanding, STILL offer it as a payment method, some as an option, others as the only method. FWIW, when I see "gift" listed anywhere in B&S ad, I blow right on by it. If enough others of us did that as well, folks would quit using it as a method.

BOYCOTT ANY AND ALL SELLERS WHO INCLUDE "GIFT" IN THEIR AD.

I agree with avoiding sellers who insist on gift payment only, but a buyer can always send regular Paypal and include the cost of fees to "net" the seller his price. On a $1,000 purchase, you're talking about $30 more- peanuts for the protection and peace of mind. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Hope things work out for the OP and that others avoid this type of situation.

lara_ckl wrote:
Nothing inherently wrong with buying from a new member with no feedback. Your real mistake was to use Paypal gift. That's a no-no pointed by Fred and countless others here.


I agree and have sold/bought from newbies and Fmer's with very little or no feedback. 99% of those were what I refer to as "merchandisers only". i.e They B/S only....

I must admit I did use PP Gift at 1 time on B&S and NEVER had a problem. I don't anymore.

There are also those here on B&S that go out of their way to "slam" sellers, slander and libel them, when they cant lowball an item or want to post derrogatory remarks about a F/S item.
That has increased 100%, though somewhat rare, here and the FM'ers on B&S are easy to pick out.
A quick note to Fred and the remarks and poster were removed.

I DONOT do PP Gift and I also check their profiles through various FREE investigative search engines.
I always ask for references and if it doesn't feel good, I don't do it!

That being said, I have been scammed 2x's here on FM..not on the actual body/lens but on the accy's that come with it. PayPal was NOT involved in the root of any problem.
Just do your homework.
Dan

I dig PP Gift! It saves money. It's not more or less dangerous IMO as PayPal will now be forced to act appropriately like they should in the first place! They're are not judge and jury! They're a financial company. With PayPal gift you can still get your money back just like regular. The only difference is that you have to clearly show fraudulent behavior - and that is as it should be! Otherwise the buyer holds all the cards and that is just as unfair. There are just as many fraudulent buyers as there are sellers.


Danpbphoto has 111 transactions and only with two were there any discrepancies - and from his text it seems those were just over accompanying accessories. He's right; use the system here at FM's B&S but just do your homework and don't be lazy - that's where ya get yourself into trouble! Not with gift or non-gift transactions.

I do agree tho that a seller "insisting" on gift is a red flag. I myself encourage gift but will always allow the buyer a choice. It's up to them.

Bifurcator wrote:
It's not more or less dangerous... With PayPal gift you can still get your money back just like regular. The only difference is that you have to clearly show fraudulent behavior...

I'm not sure what you've read that supports such a claim. Please provide official Paypal documentation that shows this.

Bifurcator wrote:
They're are not judge and jury! They're a financial company.

Paypal is the judge and jury because that's part of the service they provide (and the terms that you/we agreed to). They're facilitating the payment process for a transaction, and if there is a dispute over that transaction, who else should have the authority and/or has the means to provide redress? Why do you initiate a chargeback through a credit card company if you buy goods at a physical store and there's a problem? Who made them judge and jury? Same with banks.... if you're against Paypal in this sense, then you must be against the whole financial services industry. If you paid via credit card, then you're free to pursue a chargeback under their guidelines- but once you've done that, you're not eligible to "double dip" and seek relief through Paypal's dispute resolution.

Bifurcator wrote:
Danpbphoto has 111 transactions and only with two were there any discrepancies - and from his text it seems those were just over accompanying accessories. He's right; use the system here at FM's B&S but just do your homework and don't be lazy - that's where ya get yourself into trouble! Not with gift or non-gift transactions.

The whole reason for using Paypal is to provide a type of insurance, like Fred said earlier. Doing your homework is certainly part of being a smart consumer, and if you think that's all the protection you need, then by all means, save the fees. I guess it is unheard of for identities to be stolen, accounts hacked, online personas falsified, etc. The ethics of using "gift" or "personal" payments for what is clearly a sale of goods is a different discussion altogether.

As I'm likely to have said here before: why the hell would I want to send a 'gift' to somebody I don't even know?!!!!That's bullshite. If I know the seller because of my previous transactions with him or here, or elsewhere, and I trust him or her enough as a function of that knowledge, shucks, I'll cross-ship with them and use a personal check, whether I'm buying or selling. There are FM'ers here with whom I've done that and the transactions have gone flawlessly. Just sayin....

Bifurcator wrote:
I dig PP Gift! It saves money. It's not more or less dangerous IMO as PayPal will now be forced to act appropriately like they should in the first place!



if you really think that, lets play a game. Paypal gift me $2000 and lets see how quick you can get it back

Really wanna try it? I will. Your PP account might get closed though. And you might have to use another name to get it back once you're black-balled. That'll mean you will have to open a bank account in someone else's name. I've done it before to someone on E-Bay. Of course all you'd have to do to win the argument now is point them to this thread.

But if you wanna set up a fake sell thread and then remain silent or stay within the usual lies cheaters tell then sure I will. You have to agree to give back the $2k when it's all over with - whoever wins.

and what will you do then when he lies about his agreement to give it all back when it's "over with" .

Hard for me to figure why in hell somebody would want to save 3% on 1k purchase. Shucks, if I've got 1k, 30 bucks ain't gonna break my bank.

Sorry, BIF, but I see no justification whatever for a seller offering a Gift payment; But hey, your free to do what you want.

Well, that's your opinion. I kinda think the same way you do actually. But buyers sure don't. Of the 27 sales I've done on FM (19 feedbacks) only 2 people were willing to not use gift.

And when I do the communications I just give them the two prices (PP = $xx.xx... As Gift =$xx.xx) and let them decide. If they ask I say I prefer gift but either way is fine.

well, they're lucky they got you as a seller

Hey TexasCurt,

Shoot me a pm with your phone # and maybe I can help up here in cold Minnesota.

Grant

Go Vikings!

anthonysemone wrote:
well, they're lucky they got you as a seller


Well, sure... We're (almost) all professional adults here. (Almost) no one is out to rip anyone off or get over.

Bifurcator wrote:
Really wanna try it? I will. Your PP account might get closed though. And you might have to use another name to get it back once you're black-balled. That'll mean you will have to open a bank account in someone else's name. I've done it before to someone on E-Bay. Of course all you'd have to do to win the argument now is point them to this thread.

But if you wanna set up a fake sell thread and then remain silent or stay within the usual lies cheaters tell then sure I will. You have to agree to give back the $2k when it's all over with - whoever wins.



I highly doubt my paypal account would be closed considering I've never had anyone file a dispute and have over 600+ paypal transactions. Also on here I'm not worried, almost 50 positive feedbacks and 6000+ posts is usually good enough for most people to trust me in the B/S department. So there would be 0 reason to change my name and/or create a new account.

Bifurcator wrote:
Really wanna try it? I will. You have to agree to give back the $2k when it's all over with - whoever wins.


If you are so confident that you can get it back just like you could a regular Paypal payment, then why does he need to agree to return the money? I would love to accept your gift payment and wish you good luck getting it back.

I seriously doubt BenV is serious in the first place but if he is those are my conditions. The person I spoke of had 800+ good feedbacks on a popular auction site through paypal. Now he has no auction account, no paypal account, he's on a no fly list, his taxes have been audited (or was put on a cue to have them audited), is now listed with the BBB, and was investigated by the FBI. The transaction was "Send as gift" and I got every penny back. So this is not something I merely believe...