How bad is Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 ZE Planar?
/forum/topic/1163096/7

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joakim
Registered: Apr 06, 2008
Total Posts: 1465
Country: Sweden

Another vote for the 50 Planar




bluetsunami
Registered: Sep 03, 2008
Total Posts: 1151
Country: United States

That second photo has ridiculous presence. Very nice!



philip_pj
Registered: Apr 03, 2009
Total Posts: 3103
Country: Australia

After reading alundeb's post I checked out the 58/1.4 at PZ; my word, what performance, right out to f11 (if reliable testing) after suitably soft open aperture results. Every bit as good, and probably better, at f5.6-f8 than the ZE CZs.

A most under-rated lens, they also report less distortion than either ZE 50mm lens, and negligible CA. I never thought their (PZ) bokeh appeciation did justice to the phenomenon, and you see good examples of pleasant OOF out of this one - nice CV colour too.



helimat
Registered: Apr 06, 2008
Total Posts: 3728
Country: Canada

bluetsunami wrote:
That second photo has ridiculous presence. Very nice!


+1. It feels like I could reach out and grab that rope.



David R.
Registered: Jun 10, 2011
Total Posts: 61
Country: Australia

Btw for those seeking more info re the 1.4 v the 2 please visit the reviews on this site. Most reviewers of the 1.4 are busy talking the lens up while F.2 reviewers are merely exhilarated.



Peire
Registered: Apr 27, 2010
Total Posts: 1305
Country: Poland

philip_pj wrote:
After reading alundeb's post I checked out the 58/1.4 at PZ; my word, what performance, right out to f11 (if reliable testing) after suitably soft open aperture results. Every bit as good, and probably better, at f5.6-f8 than the ZE CZs.

A most under-rated lens, they also report less distortion than either ZE 50mm lens, and negligible CA. I never thought their (PZ) bokeh appeciation did justice to the phenomenon, and you see good examples of pleasant OOF out of this one - nice CV colour too.


I have made quick comparison between just arrived CV 58/1.4 and ZF II 50/1.4 - the CV seems to have less CA and better corner sharpness on FF Nikon D600 from f1.4 to f2.8.I like CV colours too.From 2.8 up their sharpness is comparable.Planar is better in the microcontrast and 3D department though.All those differences don't mean much in real life shooting.Both are very good lenses.



sandycrane
Registered: Nov 29, 2003
Total Posts: 563
Country: United States

Technically speaking: the 1.4 is very French, the 2.0 very German.



Johnny B Goode
Registered: Jan 15, 2012
Total Posts: 441
Country: United States

sandycrane wrote:
Technically speaking: the 1.4 is very French, the 2.0 very German.




redisburning
Registered: Jul 16, 2011
Total Posts: 1094
Country: United States

those of you so convinced that the 50 MP is so much sharper than the 50 P should take a look at this:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout

which says to me that this issue is not so simple as some make it out to me. rather, it would seem to me that the MP has higher contrast at lower lp/mm levels but tails off more quickly as we go to higher lp/mm and that terminal resolution goes to the planar.

these lenses are being shot on cameras that cannot get to the terminal resolution of either lens at any rate, and it may very well be that the MP has higher apparent sharpness because at the pixel level it a graph of relative lp/mm for each lens hasn't crossed over to the planar's favor.

remember we are dealing with a digital sensor. it can capture "perfectly" anything within the nyquist limit but there is an immediate and absolute cutoff where the sampling rate ends. or at least that's how it works with recording, I wouldn't assume that this is a different application of Nyquist's theorem.

Sandy I do like your analogy. My ZM planar must be Italian then, since they are prone to falling apart.



redisburning
Registered: Jul 16, 2011
Total Posts: 1094
Country: United States

as a followup, I am immensely interested in seeing how appreciation for these lenses will change as pixel density continues to increase and a few other questions.

Is there actually a point where the 50P will start to look better at 100% or am I a right idiot?

If we were to move the test to a high resolution film would things be noticeably different? (ps Im sure we could find an FM member with a drum scanner and another with both lenses and work something out to shoot on CMS 20 or something like that).

How much better will the 55/1.4 distagon be than either of these two, if at all?

The first person to suggest that sharpness was overrated said that photographers ought to stop counting the number of bricks on their daguerreotypes; yet we (myself included) still seek the ultimate resolution for our format. Will we ever as a hobby reach a point where our competitive nature and bloodlust for only the best of the best tools/toys really and truly become a non-issue?



ltruong8
Registered: Feb 07, 2011
Total Posts: 125
Country: Vietnam

redisburning wrote:
How much better will the 55/1.4 distagon be than either of these two, if at all?


I just asked my pocket, and "she" said that, it was 10 times worst than the P50 .

j/k



sebboh
Registered: Nov 02, 2009
Total Posts: 10295
Country: United States

redisburning wrote:
remember we are dealing with a digital sensor. it can capture "perfectly" anything within the nyquist limit but there is an immediate and absolute cutoff where the sampling rate ends. or at least that's how it works with recording, I wouldn't assume that this is a different application of Nyquist's theorem.


sorry to be pedantic, but just like with audio it's pretty much impossible to design a perfect "cliff" filter. it's more of hill with gentle roll off to a steep drop. this is one of the reasons we still see moire etc in photographs even on cameras with AA filters. also, even below the nyquist frequency you can end up with a fair bit of sampling induced filtering.



alundeb
Registered: Nov 06, 2005
Total Posts: 4243
Country: Norway

Apologies for doing this.

Siemens star test chart, Pentax Q, 100 % crops.

Focussed stopped down to F/4 with LiveView and 4x magnification.

Nokton 58 (distance 8.1 m), Planar 50 (distance 7 m), Makro-Planar 50 (distance 7 m)

I may have to rethink my rating between the P and the MP at F/4. Here the P is sharper.

When it is known that the pixel pitch i 1.5425 um, it is possible to calculate the limiting resolution without further information








redisburning
Registered: Jul 16, 2011
Total Posts: 1094
Country: United States

sebboh wrote:
redisburning wrote:
remember we are dealing with a digital sensor. it can capture "perfectly" anything within the nyquist limit but there is an immediate and absolute cutoff where the sampling rate ends. or at least that's how it works with recording, I wouldn't assume that this is a different application of Nyquist's theorem.


sorry to be pedantic, but just like with audio it's pretty much impossible to design a perfect "cliff" filter. it's more of hill with gentle roll off to a steep drop. this is one of the reasons we still see moire etc in photographs even on cameras with AA filters. also, even below the nyquist frequency you can end up with a fair bit of sampling induced filtering.


why apologize over a correction?

I have seen printouts of cd vs vinyl frequency response and on those it did look pretty dramatic and it was from that I made my assumption. If it's not right it's not right.

btw the pentax Q shots are very interesting.



philip_pj
Registered: Apr 03, 2009
Total Posts: 3103
Country: Australia

'My ZM planar must be Italian then, since they are prone to falling apart.'

FIAT stands for 'Fix It Again Tony'.
Alfa Romeos - drive them fast before they rust.

Alundeb is worried about viewers suffering a psychotic reaction to the diagrams, it's a little like watching Alfred HitchCock's Vertigo. lol.



alundeb
Registered: Nov 06, 2005
Total Posts: 4243
Country: Norway



Yeah, my apologies was for posting those test charts with a disturbing 4D effect.

There are some trivial takeaways.

In resolving power at minimum MTF, there is not much between those lenses at all. They all reach about 250 lp/mm, or 6000 lp/ih for a FF sensor with the same pixel density. Conventional sensors using the 50% MTF criterion reach only 940-980 lp/ih at lensrentals' tests. If maximum resolution is the goal, sensor resolution is the single most important factor, and with good lenses it is with an overwhelming margin.

There is residual longitudinal color with all these lenses at F/4.



David R.
Registered: Jun 10, 2011
Total Posts: 61
Country: Australia

This is not about sharpness it is about a coterie of the alt forum deciding the 50 1.4 is an art lens with special qualities some of us philistines don't get. I've spent a few years being taught drawing and charcoal drawing and my eye is reasonably tuned and while I can see it has properties that are admirable it is being given more credit than it deserves. Fashion.



Makten
Registered: Jul 14, 2008
Total Posts: 4044
Country: Sweden

Can someone ban the troll?



Peire
Registered: Apr 27, 2010
Total Posts: 1305
Country: Poland

David R. is not the troll makten.He has his right as anyone else to express he's point of view.Be more tolerant,open minded and understanding,please!



AhamB
Registered: Jul 11, 2008
Total Posts: 4964
Country: Germany

Except he has been saying the same thing like 5 times over now, which gets tiresome. He is also not putting forward any constructive point but just whines that people give the lens in question too much credit (even though the thread title is "how bad is the Zeiss 50/1.4 Planar").



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