WAYCOOL wrote:
Speaking of idiotic "the title or it?" if your going to be condescending at least proof you response so it makes sense.

If you are going to be condescending to those who are condescending then at least point out there mistakes without adding you own.

There mistakes

EBH

To be honest a portfolio seen on a high res modern tablet is better than anything printed the same size.

I think printing is just about bigger formats nowadays. My parents sometimes print photographs of grandchildren, but that's it.
Nobody prints much these days, apart whom who work in photography or art.
Fine art is not mass-product. Is something specific who will still be going.

The house in the video is so cold and not cosy, I really hope that's not how we will end up.

A big print on the wall in a big canvas is nice, but I have seen big LCD in canvas with good quality and is just a matter of time they become thinner and higher res.

Even if I love the different paper, this is something only few people understand.
For the majority of people is just about having something to show, and if can change everyday, that's even better, especially if they can share it on facebook.
We are in a world for quantity, not for quality, that's what matters to the most.
I love to print my own pictures and to sell them as a in-house product, but that's appreciated by few people.

I won't buy a printed magazine anymore, the digital version is much better, gives me many more option to search, take notes, look at the pictures, and I always have all my issues with me for any reference.

Yeah, printing is gonna last in a very limited usage.

G.

knower wrote:
To be honest a portfolio seen on a high res modern tablet is better than anything printed the same size.

I think printing is just about bigger formats nowadays. My parents sometimes print photographs of grandchildren, but that's it.
Nobody prints much these days, apart whom who work in photography or art.
Fine art is not mass-product. Is something specific who will still be going.

The house in the video is so cold and not cosy, I really hope that's not how we will end up.

A big print on the wall in a big canvas is nice, but I have seen big LCD in canvas with good quality and is just a matter of time they become thinner and higher res.

Even if I love the different paper, this is something only few people understand.
For the majority of people is just about having something to show, and if can change everyday, that's even better, especially if they can share it on facebook.
We are in a world for quantity, not for quality, that's what matters to the most.
I love to print my own pictures and to sell them as a in-house product, but that's appreciated by few people.

I won't buy a printed magazine anymore, the digital version is much better, gives me many more option to search, take notes, look at the pictures, and I always have all my issues with me for any reference.

Yeah, printing is gonna last in a very limited usage.

G.


You need to get out more......your world seems very small . Basic snapshots are not printed much anymore....you are correct on that. But each and every year there are thousands of art shows around the country and world......that sell thousands and thousands of prints of all sizes and at all prices. Thousands of people collect these at all levels....people love to hang prints all over their homes......they are not going to have LEDs hanging all over their homes. This is not even counting the hundreds of galleries selling high end prints to high end collectors and wealthy art braggers.
Again what seems to have gone away is the printing of snapshots that are now easier to share digitally....that's about it. Not even close to ending the print........My sales of fine art prints are actually increasing again after a slight fall off during our economy slump.

My sales of large wall portraits are not flagging, either.

As I always say: Homo sapiens has loved big pictures on her walls for as long as homo sapiens has had walls. That's not going to disappear in our lifetimes.

RDKirk wrote:
My sales of large wall portraits are not flagging, either.

As I always say: Homo sapiens has loved big pictures on her walls for as long as homo sapiens has had walls. That's not going to disappear in our lifetimes.

But isn't a big LCD wrapped in a beautiful frame a big picture as well that allows the flexibility of changing the picture without having to frame another photo? After all, it is just another display medium much like canvas, metal prints, textured matte, high super gloss etc... The end result is still a photo hanging on the wall.

My world is not very small, is the world of new generations. And I can clearly see from your words that you don't seem aware of what is already going on with the high res displays and technologies.

Common people love to hang prints because they are cheap to buy and put in the house, but LED displays are getting thinner and cheaper and Samsung just showed the paper lcd which can be bent and is super light and thin. Very much like piece of paper, in fact.
You buy it once, hang on your wall change as many pictures as you want, you buy them realtime online.
You can still frame it if you want. But at the end you have digital paper, with touch and many more options.
Once this becomes accessible nobody will buy simple prints anymore, if not fine art collectors, people who really appreciate the beauty of an image and everything what is around it, the framing, the paper etc.

Even exhibitions and galleries will probably replace paper with lcds ones now that they are becoming so high definition. The wildlife photographers of the year shows the pictures in backlit displays...

The only reason why this hasn't happened yet is that the technology is not ready. The high definition displays came out last year, and already most of the people are buying tablets, to read and do many more things at the same time. Nexus 7 sold out more than once...
Only now screens have as resolution as printed paper, and we can see that this is starting having a big impact. Is much easier to go online and buy what you need, check the sample, take it and keep it with you with no space if not the tablet itself. As said, editorial word is not going to print anymore.
Print is a cost. A nice display is much better than a print, much better contrast, much better resolution (till a certain size, obviously).

Of course right now is not like that, but I didn't say that the print IS dead, I said that it's going to last only for few specialized applications, like, maybe, fine art.
What you are sating Peter, is exactly that. Collectors and people who can afford the FINE quality of a true fine-art piece will keep doing it, but that's always the case.
But that's not where printing is strong, as everything else, masses determines technology developing, not minorities.
The editorial world, which is where printing is at its highest volume, is slowly turning into digital, it won't take much before this is completely true.

Maybe we'll take this conversation in 10 years and think at what we wrote today, who knows. Hopefully both you and I will till be printing for these good collectors, or maybe not.

G.

chez wrote:
RDKirk wrote:
My sales of large wall portraits are not flagging, either.

As I always say: Homo sapiens has loved big pictures on her walls for as long as homo sapiens has had walls. That's not going to disappear in our lifetimes.

But isn't a big LCD wrapped in a beautiful frame a big picture as well that allows the flexibility of changing the picture without having to frame another photo? After all, it is just another display medium much like canvas, metal prints, textured matte, high super gloss etc... The end result is still a photo hanging on the wall.

Yes chez it is.......so maybe some wealthier customers will have one large LED with changing images in one room.....maybe........but do you really think they will have LED's in every room at different sizes and multiple ones on one wall in different sizes to match their decor . Come on man do you really think that will happen in the next 50 years. Like I said my print sales have not dropped off at all and large sizes are increacing at a very pleasing rate.

The majority of homo sapiens doesn't care about where a picture is, as soon as it's value is just a decorative one.
Paper or digital paper it's not going to matter, as soon as you can hang it on the wall the same way without spending too much.

G.

knower wrote:
My world is not very small, is the world of new generations. And I can clearly see from your words that you don't seem aware of what is already going on with the high res displays and technologies.

Common people love to hang prints because they are cheap to buy and put in the house, but LED displays are getting thinner and cheaper and Samsung just showed the paper lcd which can be bent and is super light and thin. Very much like piece of paper, in fact.
You buy it once, hang on your wall change as many pictures as you want, you buy them realtime online.
You can still frame it if you want. But at the end you have digital paper, with touch and many more options.
Once this becomes accessible nobody will buy simple prints anymore, if not fine art collectors, people who really appreciate the beauty of an image and everything what is around it, the framing, the paper etc.

Even exhibitions and galleries will probably replace paper with lcds ones now that they are becoming so high definition. The wildlife photographers of the year shows the pictures in backlit displays...

The only reason why this hasn't happened yet is that the technology is not ready. The high definition displays came out last year, and already most of the people are buying tablets, to read and do many more things at the same time. Nexus 7 sold out more than once...
Only now screens have as resolution as printed paper, and we can see that this is starting having a big impact. Is much easier to go online and buy what you need, check the sample, take it and keep it with you with no space if not the tablet itself. As said, editorial word is not going to print anymore.
Print is a cost. A nice display is much better than a print, much better contrast, much better resolution (till a certain size, obviously).

Of course right now is not like that, but I didn't say that the print IS dead, I said that it's going to last only for few specialized applications, like, maybe, fine art.
What you are sating Peter, is exactly that. Collectors and people who can afford the FINE quality of a true fine-art piece will keep doing it, but that's always the case.
But that's not where printing is strong, as everything else, masses determines technology developing, not minorities.
The editorial world, which is where printing is at its highest volume, is slowly turning into digital, it won't take much before this is completely true.

Maybe we'll take this conversation in 10 years and think at what we wrote today, who knows. Hopefully both you and I will till be printing for these good collectors, or maybe not.

G.



I have 2 smart phones, a tablet, a laptop plus build my own desktops.....have a smart LED TV.......so I am up on what is new. But I have been around for a while and I have learned that what is said is going to take over usually only does to a degree. I do agree with a lot of what you say in this post......it is a little different then what you posted earlier...no ? I am talking about fine art prints and display prints........that is the print this thread is talking about.....no? I do not think we are going to see 20 or 30 LED's hanging in peoples houses no matter how thin they become anytime soon. The editorial world.....yes....I think it will be sooner then later..

Its really ironic that Corning comes up with the grandiose glass world when we can't even fix our roads, bridges, electric grid, and the other infrastructure we need to function now.

chez wrote:
RDKirk wrote:
My sales of large wall portraits are not flagging, either.

As I always say: Homo sapiens has loved big pictures on her walls for as long as homo sapiens has had walls. That's not going to disappear in our lifetimes.

But isn't a big LCD wrapped in a beautiful frame a big picture as well that allows the flexibility of changing the picture without having to frame another photo? After all, it is just another display medium much like canvas, metal prints, textured matte, high super gloss etc... The end result is still a photo hanging on the wall.

I may have said earlier in this thread--if not, I've certainly said it many times before--that mama homo sapiens will still want big pictures on her walls even though the medium changes. So charcoal, tempura, oil, silver halide, lcd, there will still be big pictures on the wall. I don't sweat a change of medium. I'm arguing that mama homo sapiens is not now and not in our lifetimes going to eschew big pictures on her wall in favor of tiny pictures in her hand.

And we can never take the proclivities of "twenty-somethings" as the direction of the future. When I was in my twenties, I didn't care about big pictures on the wall because I didn't own any walls. I was happy with my "book"--and I was a photographer.

When today's twenty-something is a mama with walls, she will want big pictures on them.

Peter Le wrote:
chez wrote:
RDKirk wrote:
My sales of large wall portraits are not flagging, either.

As I always say: Homo sapiens has loved big pictures on her walls for as long as homo sapiens has had walls. That's not going to disappear in our lifetimes.

But isn't a big LCD wrapped in a beautiful frame a big picture as well that allows the flexibility of changing the picture without having to frame another photo? After all, it is just another display medium much like canvas, metal prints, textured matte, high super gloss etc... The end result is still a photo hanging on the wall.

Yes chez it is.......so maybe some wealthier customers will have one large LED with changing images in one room.....maybe........but do you really think they will have LED's in every room at different sizes and multiple ones on one wall in different sizes to match their decor . Come on man do you really think that will happen in the next 50 years. Like I said my print sales have not dropped off at all and large sizes are increacing at a very pleasing rate.

Peter, if you are talking 50 years...then I strongly believe prints on existing medium will be a very small niche. I have no doubts about this. Technology is moving very fast and like paper books, paper photos will quickly decline. Sure, there might be niche markets...but the vast majority of displayed photos will be digital, whether that is on a tablet or a 30x40 LCD display hanging above the couch.

RDKirk wrote:
chez wrote:
RDKirk wrote:
My sales of large wall portraits are not flagging, either.

As I always say: Homo sapiens has loved big pictures on her walls for as long as homo sapiens has had walls. That's not going to disappear in our lifetimes.

But isn't a big LCD wrapped in a beautiful frame a big picture as well that allows the flexibility of changing the picture without having to frame another photo? After all, it is just another display medium much like canvas, metal prints, textured matte, high super gloss etc... The end result is still a photo hanging on the wall.

I may have said earlier in this thread--if not, I've certainly said it many times before--that mama homo sapiens will still want big pictures on her walls even though the medium changes. So charcoal, tempura, oil, silver halide, lcd, there will still be big pictures on the wall. I don't sweat a change of medium. I'm arguing that mama homo sapiens is not now and not in our lifetimes going to eschew big pictures on her wall in favor of tiny pictures in her hand.

And we can never take the proclivities of "twenty-somethings" as the direction of the future. When I was in my twenties, I didn't care about big pictures on the wall because I didn't own any walls. I was happy with my "book"--and I was a photographer.

When today's twenty-something is a mama with walls, she will want big pictures on them.


But you don't get it. You'll still have that big picture hanging on the wall that you say the mama homo sapien loves...it just won't be printed on canvas, but displayed and framed on LED paper. Today's young kids are digital everywhere and that will move seamlessly into digital photos hanging on walls. It's just a matter of technology getting better and cheaper which it does all the time.

Early man printed images on their walls this trend is ongoing and will continue as long as mankind exists. LCD are just an other print media that mankind is using more and more these days. Modern printing press that are hung on wall, billboards some transported in pocked and on one's lap. They display digital print media so mankind can see it. Hard-copy will also not go way for it requires no power and will last longer then devices that need power and maintenance.

But you don't get it. You'll still have that big picture hanging on the wall that you say the mama homo sapien loves...it just won't be printed on canvas, but displayed and framed on LED paper.

I did get it. I said it. Don't you read?

I know that the predominant form of viewing photos will trend to all electrical. several of the things shown in that video are cool and frankly I expect (though the fact that the camera for the video call follows the image on the countertop is frankly disturbing, as it means the countertop has a bazillion little cameras.)

However, I don't think prints will go away completely. There is something to the permanence of something physical that doesn't require electricity to view. Even though most of my family photo sharing is done via Facebook, I still print a LOT of 4x6s, just because I still want to have photo albums around. They are fun to look at, and while I have a little portfolio on my iPad, since it's great to be able to view those quickly and easily, managing the photo assets digitally is still hard. Meanwhile, the photo albums I'm making now, my grandchildren will be able to just pick them up and browse through them, laughing at funny pictures of their mom when she was 3.

I also occasionally make photo books for display....they're great to look through and more tactile and 'real' in a sense. I can definitely see most wall decoration being digital, however. Super easy to change images, and no need to spend hundreds of dollars on large high quality prints and framing when you can just toss the image to the screen and have a 40" 'print' on the wall.

I also agree that prints will not completely disappear.

But even if I don't know how old you guys are, I must say that people from my generation and even more the next generation have little to no attachment to these kind of things.
Interaction and sharing is what's gonna go on in the years to come. I wanna have the picture with me, so I can show, send, share it with you. And if is a great picture, even more so.

Is a bit the same as buying books.
If is an art book there is still a nice feeling in having a nice library with all of them in. But this is because we know this feeling.
We are already able to buy books and view them on astonishing monitors for less than buying the real printed book. I still feel I want my book because I like them, but the future generations might not even know what that means, because they can have it always with them in a digital format.

My tablet replaced all my technical books and magazines, not the art ones which I like to have because I love paper and prints, but that's not what most of the people care for.

Hopefully as soon as this becomes more and more true, I think the real fine-art market will get even stronger as a even more niche product. At least that's what I wish

G.

RDKirk wrote:
anthonygh wrote:
Prints will not die and anyone producing quality prints will know that....so long as they have affluent clients.

As long as they have clients that appreciate good quality prints of people they love. I have a growing number of Latino clients who fit that bill. They aren't extremely affluent (yet) in my particular area, and the market is literally young, but they will spend money on good photography, and especially the kind of traditional portraits that I enjoy making. I help them out with a layaway plan. Right now, most of this market in my area is in "Confirmation portrait" age...but they will be reaching "Quinceanera portrait" age in a few years, and I'm getting good word of mouth.



RDKirk,

I live in an area with a dominantly Mexican and Indian population, and I’m not seeing the appreciation of prints marking significant “life events” that you report. This is likely because the mine closing 20 years ago so completely destroyed the local economy that even spending for something as simple as a Quinceanera or Senior picture is beyond the means of most people. In last year’s senior class every picture but two came from cell phones.

As the sports photographer/reporter for the local paper, I think I might get 3-4 requests a year for a print of someone’s kid. Part of this is because I believe that the “photo as marker of life” is gone. Now it’s the image on the phone, on Facebook, or perhaps a computer. In most cases the young people I encounter never consider the life of their images past the phone/FB stage.

This acceptance of a 2x3 low-rez image as “good enough” has led to the belief that “real” photographers aren’t doing anything different than the observer does. I had a young woman at a basketball game I was working insist that her droid/iphone whatever was taking as good a picture as I was with a 1DIV and a 70-200 f/2.8L II. Her only concession was that I was likely getting better pix when the players were moving.

My “real” photographic work is in landscape and macro or “art” for want of a better word. I have never sold a print to a local. My only sales have been to the snowbirds that descend on us from the northern latitudes. The are by local definition “wealthy” because they can afford to have a home they don’t have to live in or a massive RV.

I don’t believe the print will ever disappear (well not in the conceivable future), though I wonder why no one is ever concerned about the fact that digital formats continuously change and is it possible that all those jpegs on all those devices might not be readable? I know in the 30+ years that I’ve dealt with computers I’ve had to at least 4 times completely retranslate and update significant documents I wanted to preserve as file formats and physical devices became obsolete.

The future of the printed image is in art/decoration and even then it will only be for those who have an appreciation for quality and unique vision. I can’t say this is a “bad” thing because it is part of the much larger force of technological change that is hurtling the species toward an unpredictable future. I know I will keep printing and some subset of the population will buy things for their walls, but I no longer expect to sale any prints that simply document life and its passing.

Robert

Theres still plenty of demand for vinyl. When my sons band records an album they always print a few hundred vinyls and sell out almost immediately. People have replace CDs with streaming but demand for vinyl is actually growing.