6 months time is not that long to wait...any of you needed f/8 right away or somebody is going to die ? .

April 2013? I disagree, thats a damn long wait for a software upgrade after public announcement.

skibum5 wrote: Yeah, but come on, they have it already done for the 1DX. Look at how much code there is in the 5D3 or whatnot, look at how fast they fixed the 5D2 black sensor dots, etc. If it takes six months to copy over the 1DX f/8 to the 5D3 there is no remote way they could have yet had time to have even finished the very first firmware for the D30 yet.

The 1D-X code took months since people started requesting the change, and for all we know, Canon may have been working on it before the requests.

If you think that code can be just copied over from one camera to another, you don't understand software and software testing. The cameras have different computer architectures because one uses dual Digic5+ processors and the other uses just a single one. That means that code is separated (during operation) in the former and intertwined in the latter.

Undoubtedly, the Canon coding and testing teams could drop everything (next generations of multiple DSLRs and lenses and software) and put all hands on deck to ram through a quicky patch, but ...

Given the Internet Amplification Effect so vociferously exemplified by this forum where people spin out reams of verbiage over the slightest defect (real or imagined, consequential or not), Canon would be foolish to do a rush job on the 5D3 code.

But in the end, it doesn't matter. Canon is going to make the update when it wants to, whether it takes two months to integrate and fully test the code or four months. It does listen, but it has bigger fish to fry than satisfying all of FM's squeaky wheels, who are alternately calling products & updates shoddy rush jobs or grossly delayed, without any middle ground.

Very cool news. It makes me lean even more towards a 5D3, rather than wait to see how the 6D turns out....Unless, a new anoucement is made that states "The 6D will now be all cross type points with the center being able to AF at f/8." That would be sweet

Monito wrote:
skibum5 wrote: Yeah, but come on, they have it already done for the 1DX. Look at how much code there is in the 5D3 or whatnot, look at how fast they fixed the 5D2 black sensor dots, etc. If it takes six months to copy over the 1DX f/8 to the 5D3 there is no remote way they could have yet had time to have even finished the very first firmware for the D30 yet.

The 1D-X code took months since people started requesting the change, and for all we know, Canon may have been working on it before the requests.

If you think that code can be just copied over from one camera to another, you don't understand software and software testing. The cameras have different computer architectures because one uses dual Digic5+ processors and the other uses just a single one. That means that code is separated (during operation) in the former and intertwined in the latter.

Undoubtedly, the Canon coding and testing teams could drop everything (next generations of multiple DSLRs and lenses and software) and put all hands on deck to ram through a quicky patch, but ...

Given the Internet Amplification Effect so vociferously exemplified by this forum where people spin out reams of verbiage over the slightest defect (real or imagined, consequential or not), Canon would be foolish to do a rush job on the 5D3 code.

But in the end, it doesn't matter. Canon is going to make the update when it wants to, whether it takes two months to integrate and fully test the code or four months. It does listen, but it has bigger fish to fry than satisfying all of FM's squeaky wheels, who are alternately calling products & updates shoddy rush jobs or grossly delayed, without any middle ground.


Supposedly most of the code for AF runs on the same dedicated AF chip on both and look at Magic Lantern, a single guy has ported a ton over to the 7D, all by himself, in a few weeks, sure it's not as well tested. etc. etc. but....

And ML, mostly by one guy, already has dozens of new features and the guy had no documentation or resources or anything.

Anyway I want to praise Canon for adding f/8 but the timing sure smells a bit of marketing to me, but whatever, the main point is they are going to do it and that is good, very good and welcome.

kewlcanon wrote:
6 months time is not that long to wait...any of you needed f/8 right away or somebody is going to die ? .

But I want it RIGHT NOW!!

It would be really nice to have that functionality before the migrating birds head north next year, really and truly...

Still it's better to wait for 6 months rather than infinity.. don't you think so ? .

mco_970 wrote:
kewlcanon wrote:
6 months time is not that long to wait...any of you needed f/8 right away or somebody is going to die ? .

But I want it RIGHT NOW!!

It would be really nice to have that functionality before the migrating birds head north next year, really and truly...

The major difference between ML and Canon:

ML:
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Canon:
All Canon professional products are manufactured to the highest quality standards that businesses and working professionals require. And Canon's product warranty and industry leading service and support ensure both peace of mind and years of maximum value for your business.

All professional products sold via Canon USA authorized resellers are covered by a comprehensive product warranty. These warranties provide support should an unexpected problem occur due to a manufacturer's defect. To review the terms of individual product warranties, please click on the links below for details on the coverage provided for each product.

On one hand: no warranty. On the other: a comprehensive warranty.

I'm sure Canon could code something overnight and get it to you without any warranty. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it locks down your camera. Who knows. The difference is Canon needs to do some product testing first. Maybe it doesn't take 6 months to do, but if you want a warrantied product, you're just going to have to wait.

kewlcanon wrote:
6 months time is not that long to wait...any of you needed f/8 right away or somebody is going to die ? .
So far I've been able to survive, but I'm just barely hanging on.

Yes, but the very fact they put a specific release date soooo many months out basically proves the date will NOT be the date the coding and testing happens to finish on.

Whatever and whyever the date is, it is what it is, it's good they are bringing f/8 AF to people. The clean HDMI is very good, although it seems we already have it with ML and since they are, surprisngly, not adding a single other ML feature, we will still have to rely on ML anyway. I still say, if they were smart, they would have released it with the clean HDMI out and a few ML features day one and then reaped lots of praise all over the movie blogs instead of sitting and reacting a year later in partial extent and giving it all away.

perhaps it is a sign that they will realize there is no sense holding back next time, since it's better to get it from the start and reap all the benefits

whatever all that, it is nice to hear about the new firmware and i'm sure plenty will love the f/8 next spring

Caleb Williams wrote:
The major difference between ML and Canon:

ML:
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Canon:
All Canon professional products are manufactured to the highest quality standards that businesses and working professionals require. And Canon's product warranty and industry leading service and support ensure both peace of mind and years of maximum value for your business.

All professional products sold via Canon USA authorized resellers are covered by a comprehensive product warranty. These warranties provide support should an unexpected problem occur due to a manufacturer's defect. To review the terms of individual product warranties, please click on the links below for details on the coverage provided for each product.

On one hand: no warranty. On the other: a comprehensive warranty.

I'm sure Canon could code something overnight and get it to you without any warranty. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it locks down your camera. Who knows. The difference is Canon needs to do some product testing first. Maybe it doesn't take 6 months to do, but if you want a warrantied product, you're just going to have to wait.

kewlcanon wrote:
6 months time is not that long to wait...any of you needed f/8 right away or somebody is going to die ? .
So far I've been able to survive, but I'm just barely hanging on.

skibum5 wrote:
erikburd wrote:
Monito wrote:
NormanPCN wrote: F8 is probably only a few lines of code

The software is more complex than you assume.


+1 - as a software engineer, I can definitely assure you that it's absolutely **NOT** "a few lines of code". Embedded software is a very complicated beast, where the slightest problems can really mess things up. It takes time for development, testing, more testing, etc.

Speaking of that quote, a few years ago, a couple of prior co-workers were guilty of saying the exact same thing about an issue we had with one instrument we worked with. Then we discovered that "a few lines of code" actually meant "several thousand lines of low level assembly code that performs floating point calculations that would take 2 years to re-validate and test because this is a safety-critical component".

That was a nice piece of humble pie.


Yeah, but come on, they have it already done for the 1DX. Look at how much code there is in the 5D3 or whatnot, look at how fast they fixed the 5D2 black sensor dots, etc. If it takes six months to copy over the 1DX f/8 to the 5D3 there is no remote way they could have yet had time to have even finished the very first firmware for the D30 yet.
And look at ML, that was basically one guy without any documentation or resources.


Not that I want to look a gift horse in the mouth though, since it's a pretty good thing indeed.


I'm willing to guess that there's some shared common code between the EOS cameras, but you need to remember that each camera has different sensors, architectures, hardware, etc. that requires a lot of optimization, development and testing to get right. You can't just "copy and paste" code from one architecture to another. If that were possible, my job would be a lot easier.

Given Canon's size, they probably have separate software teams working on the 1DX and 5D3 cameras, which adds another dynamic to the mix.

I'll give the Magic Lantern folks a hell of a lot of credit for reverse engineering and putting out a product without much in the way of documentation. Damn impressive. Who knows - Canon could be working on the same things that ML has produced for the upcoming FW update.

You never do a rush job on something like this, as customers (as seen on this forum, among others on the Internet) aren't very forgiving.

They will certainly (almost) copy & paste some of the code as the AF module is the same.

But yes it will be a little more involved than that and they are also making other changes (HDMI etc). Testing is also a huge process for any firmware.

Better make it available on April 1st because a 6 month wait is a joke!

Where were all you we-need-f/8-AF-on-a-non-1-series-body people a few months ago? Is this really a big deal to wait for, or are we just that impatient? 6 months is a long time to wait for a firmware update, but it's not like any of the listed fixes are anything life-changing, are they?

What peeves me about this announcement is the huge the delay for the AF at f/8. We know that is ready to go, so why tie it to the uncompressed HDMI? Offer them as separate FW upgrades and release the AF at f/8 shortly and the video upgrade when it's ready.

Some people are never happy. Stop winging and give canon some credit for giving us something we haven't had before - f8 autofocus in a 5d body. This alone i think might push me over the edge into upgrading before my mid next year africa trip. Having the long notice at least lets us plan future purposes.

How about adding intervalometer functions for timelapse work to eliminate the need of a separate controller, wider bracketing with more shots for HDR work, and the 100% zoom to focus point feature for picture review while you are at it Canon. Ohhh and make these available in the 5d2 since I don't own and cannot afford a 5d3 at this time.

Gyroscope wrote:
Some people are never happy. Stop winging and give canon some credit for giving us something we haven't had before - f8 autofocus in a 5d body. This alone i think might push me over the edge into upgrading before my mid next year africa trip. Having the long notice at least lets us plan future purposes.

I'd say, "stop whining"; otherwise, what you said.

deleted

Pixel Perfect wrote:
What peeves me about this announcement is the huge the delay for the AF at f/8. We know that is ready to go, so why tie it to the uncompressed HDMI? Offer them as separate FW upgrades and release the AF at f/8 shortly and the video upgrade when it's ready.

I don't know if it is true, but someone on a video forum claims the pre-pro 5D3 had clean HDMI out and it was used during initial testing and the code is probably more or less done already. But who knows for sure.

Great news, thanks! I am fine to wait until April, i just need to digest another release from Apple today ...