Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
/forum/topic/1150855/55

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Luis Cunha
Registered: Dec 26, 2012
Total Posts: 113
Country: Portugal

juan_amores wrote:
Wonderfull images!!
A few more shots from Consuegra (Spain)

Banding? ,-(



Luis Cunha
Registered: Dec 26, 2012
Total Posts: 113
Country: Portugal

Yakim Peled wrote:
Luis Cunha wrote:
Like drunken birds around my head are M8, DP2M, Fuji X-E1, Fuji x100x. I must catch one. Iīm inside a cartoon!!! .-)


Just watch out for the eagle (RX1) who is lurking above. Those poor birds don't stand a chance...

Happy shooting,
Yakim.


Too expensive and I own FF camera. Heavy but FF.



Jede
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 36
Country: Finland

I reseted the camera yesterday, updated the firmware again, reseted the camera and switched to using a different memory card. So far, I haven't gotten the effect visible in the extent before.

However, I see similar artifacts in juan_amores Flickr stream. SDI0417 for example has visible lines in the top sky area on both sides of the topmost windmill blade. You could think of them as jpeg compression dependent thing, but knowing the issue with my camera I most certainly think they are the same thing.

The problem seems to be most distracting with long exposures in the dark, when there are lighter objects involved. But when you know what to look for, it's visible in large even light surfaces like the sky in almost every image.


Backyard snap handheld



juan_amores
Registered: May 21, 2009
Total Posts: 499
Country: Spain

Jede wrote:

However, I see similar artifacts in juan_amores Flickr stream. SDI0417 for example has visible lines in the top sky area on both sides of the topmost windmill blade. You could think of them as jpeg compression dependent thing, but knowing the issue with my camera I most certainly think they are the same thing.



Hello Jede, I had not noticed that you mention on the windmill photo, I thought they were airplanes contrails



Jede
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 36
Country: Finland

You can see the lines in the sky section horizontally (due to camera rotation compared to my image) if you pop the contrast to max in photoshop. I immediately spotted them when looking at your image on full res. Nice image btw

I'm willing to put this under sensor feature. I'll keep an eye on it, and if it starts bugging me, I'll sell the camera. I checked my own images today on 3 different monitors, and though the effect is visible on all, it seems to pop out most on my personal MBP Retina display (due to very high resolution).



Luis Cunha
Registered: Dec 26, 2012
Total Posts: 113
Country: Portugal

What a nice image ,-)
Itīs a pity if this sensor isnīt yet fine tuned. Or your unit is crippled.

Iīm investigating Fuji too.
X-E1. I could be wildly wide ,-) with their Fujinon 14mm(21mm) with a compact body, non-AA filters and nice analog dial for very important controls. High ISO too.

Iīve doubts yet...



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 1412
Country: Netherlands

Jede wrote:


However, I see similar artifacts in juan_amores Flickr stream. SDI0417 for example has visible lines in the top sky area on both sides of the topmost windmill blade. You could think of them as jpeg compression dependent thing, but knowing the issue with my camera I most certainly think they are the same thing.




Well I checked it on Flickr (original size) That little line could be anything. I don't see any serious banding or lines.
I think this is pixel peeping in his worst form and I don't know what your reasons are to go on and on about it but I am going to neglect your storys from now on.

Goodday



kosmoskatten
Registered: Oct 11, 2005
Total Posts: 3015
Country: Sweden

I think what Jede sees is contrast halo artifacts, albeit on a very small scale. Very likely due to processing or in camera processing characteristics.



Jede
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 36
Country: Finland

Well well, seems that there are people who are a little touchy here about criticizing Sigma or the Foveon sensor. I don't even know if you're looking at the same issue on Juan's photo (I doubt it based on your comments), but if you're happy with your camera, that's ok. It's not serious, but it's there, and not on my unit only. Not a little line, but several lines across the image with constant pattern, on bright color surfaces.

This will be the last from me on this issue, as it seems to raise your hair up and ruin this thread. I've written here to share my experiences, which have been mostly positive until I learned to look at the issue. Maybe someone is ok with it, but my own preference is to try to gather all experiences written in forums and reviews prior to purchasing my gear. This thread shouldn't be all fan talk, but real experience from real users. I thought that I haven't exaggerated the issue, and maybe my way to describe it hasn't been as clear as it should be. Everyone can make their own judgement.



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 1412
Country: Netherlands

Well well Jede, I have other cameras, which I like as well, nor am I a warrior for the Sigma Foveon sensor, but your last oh so miniscule wrong pixel findings are pointing to you as being a little obsessed with proving the sensor is no good.

Now there seems to be a constant pattern of lines, on bright color surfaces.
You find something new every time.



carstenw
Registered: Dec 26, 2005
Total Posts: 15820
Country: Germany

Jede,

+1. If there is a problem, reporting it is the best solution. Each person can decide if it is important to them.



carstenw
Registered: Dec 26, 2005
Total Posts: 15820
Country: Germany

sculptormic wrote:
Well well Jede, I have other cameras, which I like as well, nor am I a warrior for the Sigma Foveon sensor, but your last oh so miniscule wrong pixel findings are pointing to you as being a little obsessed with proving the sensor is no good.


I think that is not only overly critical, but it is also putting words into his mouth that were never there. Please take the report in the spirit it was offered, and don't ridicule it. It is just information. Each person can decide if it is important to them.



mortyb
Registered: Feb 15, 2009
Total Posts: 1364
Country: Norway

Jede, for what it's worth, I had exactly these vertical lines on a D700. They were visible on all ISOs, actually more so on lower ISOs. I read up on it, and if I recall correctly, it had something to do with the AD converter calibration in camera. I sold that particular D700, and got another which was much better.

I understad your frustration.



Luis Cunha
Registered: Dec 26, 2012
Total Posts: 113
Country: Portugal

Guys keep showing your best shots. Thereīs no perfection. Thereīs also warranty assistance.
Iīm more interested to see the best this camera can do comparing to others.



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 1412
Country: Netherlands

carstenw wrote:
sculptormic wrote:
Well well Jede, I have other cameras, which I like as well, nor am I a warrior for the Sigma Foveon sensor, but your last oh so miniscule wrong pixel findings are pointing to you as being a little obsessed with proving the sensor is no good.


I think that is not only overly critical, but it is also putting words into his mouth that were never there. Please take the report in the spirit it was offered, and don't ridicule it. It is just information. Each person can decide if it is important to them.



As far as I know this sensor and it's limitations, I think Jede's last findings were ridicule in the sense I could see about 6 pixels in the sky at 300% magnification, which could be dust, a bird, a plane or god knows what. So I am not talking about words but about facts. And I decided that it is important to me to point that out.
What do I care? I just think this constant nagging about the sensor without any proof of really trying it out in the situations where it is good at, gets a little boring .
I decided it is important to me to point that out. That is just information.

Carsten may be you should check it out for yourself before you intervene and judge over all the posts you read. What do you care? Forum conscience? I have my own.





sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 1412
Country: Netherlands

Luis Cunha wrote:
Guys keep showing your best shots. Thereīs no perfection. Thereīs also warranty assistance.
Iīm more interested to see the best this camera can do comparing to others.



That's the spirit!

It is probably not my best shot but I am trying.







contas
Registered: Jul 21, 2010
Total Posts: 1048
Country: Vietnam

@jede:I tried to analyse your X3F file, and see your problem, that's a very common issue of a new Foveon user, b'cause not like previous PP sofwares, SPP is tricky and the camera settings are overset.Your dog will be nice when
-reduce contrast -.7, sharpness -.8,exposure -.3 .
-while X3F fill light +.8 and all 3 noise reduction at max.
Don't panic to a new unacquaintance, take time to get to accustom with your camera settings and SPP and enjoy your new toy.



Kit Laughlin
Registered: Mar 08, 2004
Total Posts: 3528
Country: Australia

I have found that this sensor is extremely sensitive to over or underexposure, compared to the X-E1.

Too far under: noise city, at least in the previews. Too far over? When you pull the exposure back, colours go funky, especially skin tones.

I mentioned that I made a few formal portraits while in the country at Christmas time. This is my Mother (who luckily never surfs the net); window light, and one of the few occasions I have been able to persuade her to sit.

This is the full frame (a crop would help, I know), and the next image is a 100% crop. SOOC, apart from pulling the sharpening down to -1.0, from memory:

The full frame will print very nicely, I believe.



Collin Orthner
Registered: Feb 09, 2011
Total Posts: 25
Country: Canada

Kit, That's a wonderful portrait! I find ISO 500 quite acceptable. Somewhat noisy, but loads of detail. Here is one at ISO 800 while I waited for my son to finish his shift at a local coffee/donut shop. This was hand held at 1/50 wide open f/2.8.



Kit Laughlin
Registered: Mar 08, 2004
Total Posts: 3528
Country: Australia

Thanks Collin; much appreciated. You can probably tell, I'm a big fan of these cameras.

I like your image; as you say, "Somewhat noisy, but loads of detail". Noise is relatively easy to deal with, if you need to, but if you print (as I know you do), then leaving the noise as shot (IMHO) and test printing to see what the interaction will be between the frequency/distribution of the noise and the inbuilt stochastic characteristics of how the printer puts the ink on the paper before doing anything to the noise seems sensible. This noise above will not in any way be a negative in an image, I believe.



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