Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
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Luis Cunha
Registered: Dec 26, 2012
Total Posts: 113
Country: Portugal

Even at ISO 100 ,-( isnīt it?



neilvan
Registered: Aug 30, 2004
Total Posts: 483
Country: Canada

You might want to get your camera checked then, I haven't experienced what you are detailing at all. Do these lines show up in your prints? (I would put money on it that they don't...)

And yes, it is hard not to look at the detail this camera provides at 100%.



neilvan
Registered: Aug 30, 2004
Total Posts: 483
Country: Canada

sculptormic wrote:
It is not a camera for these kind of photographs.


+1

There are better tools out there for that type of photography.



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 1098
Country: Netherlands

neilvan wrote:
You might want to get your camera checked then, I haven't experienced what you are detailing at all. Do these lines show up in your prints? (I would put money on it that they don't...)

And yes, it is hard not to look at the detail this camera provides at 100%.


I have never encountered this banding as well.



Jede
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 36
Country: Finland

Raw file here. Please click with right button and "Save as", Apache doesn't recognize x3f format. ISO100, f/2.8, 6s.



neilvan
Registered: Aug 30, 2004
Total Posts: 483
Country: Canada

So yeah, I just downloaded the file and opened it up in SPP. If I look closely at 100% is shows what you are talking about. Again, get your camera checked.

That said, what does that matter? I am 99.9999% sure that will not affect your printed photo at all. Is there a reason you need to share/present your photography at 100%, there could be a reason I cant think of...

This almost makes me laugh and I am not trying to be rude. To me, it's just so strange to be worrying about something like this. Personally, I am more concerned with getting a nicely composed/exposed photo that has some artistic merit. I am absolutely amazed at the quality of the files that come from the DP2 Merrill every time I shoot with it.

If you are doing a lot of photography like the one in question, I would recommend a camera that can handle low light photography better. Maybe a full frame camera would better suit your needs?



Jede
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 36
Country: Finland

I bought this as my only camera, knowing the limitations with high ISO noise. It's what forces me to use ISO100 when possible. I'm not keen to carry around several cameras to suit my needs, as I like to concentrate on subject, composition and exposure, not the camera itself.

It's not a question of whether I need to use full resolution image or not. The camera is marketed as ultimate compact tool for users concerned in absolute image quality. I rarely print my photos, and when I do, it's usually A4 size. I'm happy to live with quirks and limitations that I knew beforehand, and was ready to cope with when selling my X100 to get this.

However, what I'm not ready to accept, is either a clear fault in sensor/cooling design or a faulty sensor. The artifacts are visible when viewing an image fitted to full screen in Aperture (on 2880x1800 MBP monitor), and yes, it's distracting when it's noticeable in every image. It's already a question of double workflow first through SPP and then in Aperture. If I have to do this double workflow over and again in order to get banding minimized after checking the initial results (without compromising the resolution), it's a huge work and takes time.

It's a technical camera, comparable to medium format film cameras in some way. I'm ready to accept limitations, and use it as a landscape camera with tripod and careful preparations. However, the sun doesn't rise at all here in Finland during the coldest winter time, and you really need long exposures even if using a higher ISO, which I for obvious reasons don't want to do. So maybe it's time I call it quits, sell the camera, and buy something else instead? I'm not fond of the Sigma user experience, and the thing that makes me want to use it is final result, and final result only. I can deal with a smaller resolution or a bigger camera, but not obvious flaws in the final image that are because of bad design or a faulty sensor.




neilvan
Registered: Aug 30, 2004
Total Posts: 483
Country: Canada

Jede wrote:
I bought this as my only camera, knowing the limitations with high ISO noise. It's what forces me to use ISO100 when possible. I'm not keen to carry around several cameras to suit my needs, as I like to concentrate on subject, composition and exposure, not the camera itself.

It's not a question of whether I need to use full resolution image or not. The camera is marketed as ultimate compact tool for users concerned in absolute image quality. I rarely print my photos, and when I do, it's usually A4 size. I'm happy to live with quirks and limitations that I knew beforehand, and was ready to cope with when selling my X100 to get this.

However, what I'm not ready to accept, is either a clear fault in sensor/cooling design or a faulty sensor. The artifacts are visible when viewing an image fitted to full screen in Aperture (on 2880x1800 MBP monitor), and yes, it's distracting when it's noticeable in every image. It's already a question of double workflow first through SPP and then in Aperture. If I have to do this double workflow over and again in order to get banding minimized after checking the initial results (without compromising the resolution), it's a huge work and takes time.

It's a technical camera, comparable to medium format film cameras in some way. I'm ready to accept limitations, and use it as a landscape camera with tripod and careful preparations. However, the sun doesn't rise at all here in Finland during the coldest winter time, and you really need long exposures even if using a higher ISO, which I for obvious reasons don't want to do. So maybe it's time I call it quits, sell the camera, and buy something else instead? I'm not fond of the Sigma user experience, and the thing that makes me want to use it is final result, and final result only.




To each their own, good luck in your quest for the perfect camera.



carstenw
Registered: Dec 26, 2005
Total Posts: 14915
Country: Germany

I can understand this, a visible flaw in every image is frustrating. Jede, have you tried swapping it for another copy of the same camera?



kosmoskatten
Registered: Oct 11, 2005
Total Posts: 2897
Country: Sweden

Hmm, this is cause for concern and I hope my copy does not display the same performance.
I thought the color banding was virtually non existent on base ISO.



Luis Cunha
Registered: Dec 26, 2012
Total Posts: 113
Country: Portugal

I can see the lines at 200% magnification (this isnīt real life) both with the RAW+SPP and as a TIFF+ACR/CS5.
Both ProPhoto RGB working colour space.
Maybe this isnīt banding as we usually see. Maybe this is a unit problem. Try another unit before give up if you like the camera IQ.
I live in a country with the sun shining all time (almost 90% of the year); my problems are others .-)



Jede
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 36
Country: Finland

I'll try to amplify the problem tomorrow, as it's more visible with long exposures. I have a feeling that the dog image was the second of two exposures, which would mean two consecutive longer exposures in a row in warm indoor conditions. I remember reading a mention of problems with overheating the Foveon sensor (by Hulyss in Luminous Landscape forum I think).

The closest retailer (and service provider) is 800km away, so I'll try to define the problem completely before sending the camera there.



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 1098
Country: Netherlands

Jede wrote:
I bought this as my only camera, knowing the limitations with high ISO noise. It's what forces me to use ISO100 when possible. I'm not keen to carry around several cameras to suit my needs, as I like to concentrate on subject, composition and exposure, not the camera itself.

It's not a question of whether I need to use full resolution image or not. The camera is marketed as ultimate compact tool for users concerned in absolute image quality. I rarely print my photos, and when I do, it's usually A4 size. I'm happy to live with quirks and limitations that I knew beforehand, and was ready to cope with when selling my X100 to get this.

However, what I'm not ready to accept, is either a clear fault in sensor/cooling design or a faulty sensor. The artifacts are visible when viewing an image fitted to full screen in Aperture (on 2880x1800 MBP monitor), and yes, it's distracting when it's noticeable in every image. It's already a question of double workflow first through SPP and then in Aperture. If I have to do this double workflow over and again in order to get banding minimized after checking the initial results (without compromising the resolution), it's a huge work and takes time.

It's a technical camera, comparable to medium format film cameras in some way. I'm ready to accept limitations, and use it as a landscape camera with tripod and careful preparations. However, the sun doesn't rise at all here in Finland during the coldest winter time, and you really need long exposures even if using a higher ISO, which I for obvious reasons don't want to do. So maybe it's time I call it quits, sell the camera, and buy something else instead? I'm not fond of the Sigma user experience, and the thing that makes me want to use it is final result, and final result only. I can deal with a smaller resolution or a bigger camera, but not obvious flaws in the final image that are because of bad design or a faulty sensor.




Jede, I am sure it is the camera copy. You should return it.
I checked my long exposures at 200% in the corners and no artifacts like yours whatsoever. And those shots are shot in a lot darker situations as yours.

But living in the long darkness of Finland I would probably buy a 6D. (high ISO king)

At least you should get another copy, check it and if you don't like it. Sell it. Not a good idea selling a wrong copy anyway.

Good luck




Luis Cunha
Registered: Dec 26, 2012
Total Posts: 113
Country: Portugal

Return under the warranty?



dmbphotography
Registered: Jun 09, 2007
Total Posts: 414
Country: Australia



nandadevieast
Registered: Aug 12, 2012
Total Posts: 352
Country: India

I don't care for the banding, really...
I am more bothered about this magenta-green thing...there will be magenta in the middle of the image and green on the corner...don't know in what conditions it will appear, but it does and it will look like a color aberration...color cast if you...don't know how to remove it either...



neilvan
Registered: Aug 30, 2004
Total Posts: 483
Country: Canada

nandadevieast wrote:
I don't care for the banding, really...
I am more bothered about this magenta-green thing...there will be magenta in the middle of the image and green on the corner...don't know in what conditions it will appear, but it does and it will look like a color aberration...color cast if you...don't know how to remove it either...


Reading today about the supposed banding problem and your complaint make me happy that the images from my DP2 Merrill come out perfect.

You guys should talk to Sigma directly about your problems. I know their customer service is excellent, at least it was a couple of years back when I had an issue with my SD14.



nandadevieast
Registered: Aug 12, 2012
Total Posts: 352
Country: India

I don't have any problem with my DP2M. I love its colors. I just mentioned something which i saw.



juan_amores
Registered: May 21, 2009
Total Posts: 437
Country: Spain

Wonderfull images!!
A few more shots from Consuegra (Spain)


_SDI0422 por John Loves, en Flickr


_SDI0419 por John Loves, en Flickr


_SDI0416 por John Loves, en Flickr


_SDI0417 por John Loves, en Flickr



Yakim Peled
Registered: Nov 18, 2004
Total Posts: 16903
Country: Israel

Luis Cunha wrote:
Like drunken birds around my head are M8, DP2M, Fuji X-E1, Fuji x100x. I must catch one. Iīm inside a cartoon!!! .-)


Just watch out for the eagle (RX1) who is lurking above. Those poor birds don't stand a chance...

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



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