Water in the boats instead of boats in the water.

sculptormic wrote:
Luis Cunha wrote:
Is there such a crazy test with DP2 Merrill vs Leica Monochrome?


There are some tests here http://soundimageplus.blogspot.it/2012/11/ultimate-quality-test-part-1-four.html against the Nikon D600, NEX-7 and OM D.

And here http://soundimageplus.blogspot.it/2012/11/ultimate-quality-test-part-2-two-camera.html against the Nikon D800E

I should add; it is mainly a test in sharpness! But that is what this camera is all about, isn't it?

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Luis Cunha wrote:
Is there such a crazy test with DP2 Merrill vs Leica Monochrome?

I'm not aware of one. At base ISO, I would imagine they would be close. At higher ISO's, the Leica is going to be much better. The one huge advantage of the DP2 is, of course, it's full color sensor which, for B&W, will allow much more control of the resulting tones during conversion. With the Leica Monochrom, you're going to be using filters during exposure which are a bit more limiting.

So at low ISO in theory the DP2M would perform better?
And a test between DP2M and a Leica M9?

Luis Cunha wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Luis Cunha wrote:
Is there such a crazy test with DP2 Merrill vs Leica Monochrome?

I'm not aware of one. At base ISO, I would imagine they would be close. At higher ISO's, the Leica is going to be much better. The one huge advantage of the DP2 is, of course, it's full color sensor which, for B&W, will allow much more control of the resulting tones during conversion. With the Leica Monochrom, you're going to be using filters during exposure which are a bit more limiting.

So at low ISO in theory the DP2M would perform better?
And a test between DP2M and a Leica M9?

At base ISO it is already a tad sharper then the D800E, which has no AA filter as well, I believe, Like the Leica.
So it should probably be sharper then the Leica as well at base ISO

It will be for sure when Sigma is developing the firmware to extract real monochrome images from the Foveon sensor's output. This should be easy as the sensor is a monochrome sensor.(Quote from Vivek) And the probabbly will. They must have noticed the sale figures of the DPm's

But why you are so specially interested in this sole comparison?

Because for the first time I can think about and affordable and light camera that permit me work with pro quality while traveling. I canīt carry anymore my dslr. Bones problems.

The alternative was Leica M system. Too expensive for me as a second system.
Now thereīs this Sony Rx-1 but itīs very recent and more expensive than the Sigmas.
Also because I do B&W photography and the Leica Monochrome seems to me an absurd in terms of price.
And the non-bayer/moiré filters issue. Very exciting.
The Nikon D800E is an elephant to carry.

So... the Sony is limited (fixed lenses) and expensive (we pay for the new). The Leicas... wonderfull machines but not for me as a second system just because.

Thatīs why I would like to see Sigmas vs Leicas.

These Sigmas are, portable, affordable, non-filter, good match sensor/lens, simple in functions. What is better? ,-)

This is my type of work:
http://ateliercunha.com/ibp_menu_iconand.html

I think Sigma will be my "Leica" ,-)

Had a quick look at your work. I think for a lot of your work the DP2 m is a lovely camera.
Looks like you do quiet a lot of PP in your images. That is something to work on and find out the possibilitys in SPP before you safe the TIFF file on which you can work further in Lightroom etc.
It excells in structures (like your wondeffull ground surface series), landscapes, cityscapes.
Less so for portraits. The detail is amazing.

It is a camera to take your time to compose. That is something what fits you, I think. I always have a small tripod in my bag, so I can use it in twilight and at night at base ISO's. I almost never go above 200 ISO.

It is also not a real "bokeh" camera, although it ain't bad either in that respect.

BTW Nice work!

Low ISO.....long exposures. I'd like to order this camera today but am put off by the often expressed comment that the camera only works well in good light. Now I shoot a lot of sunrise landscapes at low ISO and rather long ( 1/10 to 5 sec) exposures. Am I going to be all right with the DP2?

Long distance Bokeh example.

mordicai wrote:
Low ISO.....long exposures. I'd like to order this camera today but am put off by the often expressed comment that the camera only works well in good light. Now I shoot a lot of sunrise landscapes at low ISO and rather long ( 1/10 to 5 sec) exposures. Am I going to be all right with the DP2?

Look at p.41 #10 and see what you think. The last one was 8 seconds, if I remember well.
Not completely dark but the sun was down already.

Thank you for your kind words, your time and advice.
Everything you point is correct. I do also carry a small Manfrotto tripod.
And yes, I like to compose quietly and I like to alter later. Alter or not. Sometimes what looks like edited, isnīt.
But Iīm not a purist. Tools are tools. The final image is my goal, no matter if itīs from a Instax, dslr, medium format, collodion, etc. I do all of them.
My ISO is always very low and I only use sun light even at studio. So Iīm very attracted to these Merrils and want to use them as they allow. Most important IQ and portability. And of course affordability.

sculptormic wrote:
mordicai wrote:
Low ISO.....long exposures. I'd like to order this camera today but am put off by the often expressed comment that the camera only works well in good light. Now I shoot a lot of sunrise landscapes at low ISO and rather long ( 1/10 to 5 sec) exposures. Am I going to be all right with the DP2?

Look at p.41 #10 and see what you think. The last one was 8 seconds, if I remember well.
Not completely dark but the sun was down already.
Thanks , That's what I thought. Just stay close to base ISO. Well, I off to B&H web site to do the deed. An example of what I was concerned about...dark and high contrast.. .http://www.pbase.com/mordicai/image/147679630

mordicai wrote:
sculptormic wrote:
mordicai wrote:
Low ISO.....long exposures. I'd like to order this camera today but am put off by the often expressed comment that the camera only works well in good light. Now I shoot a lot of sunrise landscapes at low ISO and rather long ( 1/10 to 5 sec) exposures. Am I going to be all right with the DP2?

Look at p.41 #10 and see what you think. The last one was 8 seconds, if I remember well.
Not completely dark but the sun was down already.
Thanks , That's what I thought. Just stay close to base ISO. Well, I off to B&H web site to do the deed. An example of what I was concerned about...dark and high contrast.. .http://www.pbase.com/mordicai/image/147679630


You will be happy when you see the first files in SPP at 100% -

Luis Cunha wrote:
Thank you for your kind words, your time and advice.
Everything you point is correct. I do also carry a small Manfrotto tripod.
And yes, I like to compose quietly and I like to alter later. Alter or not. Sometimes what looks like edited, isnīt.
But Iīm not a purist. Tools are tools. The final image is my goal, no matter if itīs from a Instax, dslr, medium format, collodion, etc. I do all of them.
My ISO is always very low and I only use sun light even at studio. So Iīm very attracted to these Merrils and want to use them as they allow. Most important IQ and portability. And of course affordability.


Totally agree on the tools. Your work has certainly a very special character of its own.

BTW What is collodion? I like to learn to, you know -

A step up from my humble rx100!

http://www.scoop.it/t/wet-plate-collodion

Just one of the miriad of places to hace a glimpse about alternate processes.
Just start to search and youīll find a lot about collodion.
Iīm in the learning process by myself. Itīs a personal project.

There are dutch collodion photographers. Do your search. Youīve a particular (as me) light in your country ,-) Use it.

**********PRICE REDUCTION**********
I just ordered a DP2 from B&H for $949.00. I put it in my cart last night for 999 and when I check out today it was 949. Merry Christmas.

Luis Cunha wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Luis Cunha wrote:
Is there such a crazy test with DP2 Merrill vs Leica Monochrome?

I'm not aware of one. At base ISO, I would imagine they would be close. At higher ISO's, the Leica is going to be much better. The one huge advantage of the DP2 is, of course, it's full color sensor which, for B&W, will allow much more control of the resulting tones during conversion. With the Leica Monochrom, you're going to be using filters during exposure which are a bit more limiting.

So at low ISO in theory the DP2M would perform better?
And a test between DP2M and a Leica M9?

I can't say that it would perform better with regard to detail. The M Monochrom will be very sharp as there is no bayer filter nor aa filter so one is taking full advantage of all the MP's, just like the Merrill. The M Monochrom also has a slightly higher resolution sensor. Furthermore, compared to something like the D800E, there will be the advantage of no artifacts introduced from the bayer interpolation. I would imagine that the M Monochrom would also have an advantage with long exposures over the DP Merrill's. For short exposure times, the DP Merrills and the M Monochrom should perform in the same ballpark- that's my educated guess anyway - but I would be careful to suggest the Merrill would perform better with regard to detail and resolution.

Anyway; apart from Leica construction, market value (like Mercedes ,-), rangefinder uniqueness, all Leica lifestyle experience...
A Monochrome body (or a M9/M-E body) + a 50mm lenses price vs a Sigma DP2 Merrill price to obtain crispy, iQ images with a portable camera... ,-) Cīmon.

IIīm being provocative I know but... rational at the same time.

If I could afford I would buy and try all the Leicas and Phases and Sinars and Reds and everything.
I canīt.
BUT I want the best IQ I can reach and at last it seems that its possible with selling my house and my car. And portable; portability is a huge aspect for me too because at the studio Iīm ok.

BTW I do a lot macro (until x5) and I canīt do that properly with Leicas (or any rangefinders); that is (also) why just for outdoor work, the investment must be very well calculated and rational IMMO.

Oh yes, there is so much one can want and I have already so much

There was a screw on close up lens for the DP2m, but it seems to be discontinued.

sculptormic wrote:
Oh yes, there is so much one can want and I have already so much

There was a screw on close up lens for the DP2m, but it seems to be discontinued.

What close up lens? The AML-2? Not available anymore?