Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
/forum/topic/1150855/4

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DougDolde
Registered: Feb 21, 2008
Total Posts: 337
Country: United States

I just added another full size DP2 Merrill shot to my Dropbox public folder. No sharpening applied though it is post processed.

COLOR-169



mpmendenhall
Registered: Aug 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2034
Country: United States

AhamB wrote:
I'm with FPF. I'm seeing short perfectly horizontal and vertical lines (both in the rock texture and the bushes) that can only be artifacts, but ofc. this is pixel peeping of the worst kind.


Maybe you are seeing JPEG artifacts? That's what I see. The texture on the rock is just about worst case for JPEG compression (every pixel nearly an independent random value), so something has to compress down the file size. I would guess that a lossless version would look even more natural.



asbalyan
Registered: May 28, 2003
Total Posts: 377
Country: United States

DougDolde wrote:
I just added another full size DP2 Merrill shot to my Dropbox public folder. No sharpening applied though it is post processed.

COLOR-169


Forget about sharpness, isnt the DR as shown in these results which makes you crazy... at 1:1 res, astonising details in the darker parts of rock shadows (areas between 2 rocks)...



millsart
Registered: Apr 29, 2009
Total Posts: 4634
Country: N/A

They are nice looking shots but I do see a weird green halo around the rocks and distant horizon, very weird....

Nice color and contrast though. Some of the X3 stuff I've seen has this really low contrast in camera HDR look to it which I don't really like. Sharp with fine detail, but not natural at all, sort of a digital illustration look to. Sony HDR "painting" effect like if you will.....



AhamB
Registered: Jul 11, 2008
Total Posts: 4938
Country: Germany

mpmendenhall wrote:
AhamB wrote:
I'm with FPF. I'm seeing short perfectly horizontal and vertical lines (both in the rock texture and the bushes) that can only be artifacts, but ofc. this is pixel peeping of the worst kind.


Maybe you are seeing JPEG artifacts? That's what I see. The texture on the rock is just about worst case for JPEG compression (every pixel nearly an independent random value), so something has to compress down the file size. I would guess that a lossless version would look even more natural.


I don't think so. I know this is a Foveon sensor, but they remind me of demosaicing artifacts (short horizontal and vertical lines at pixel level). I see jpeg artifacts as well but those look very different. At 100% the rock textures and the gravel just look "digital", like FPF said. Probably no problem in prints though.

asbalyan wrote:
Forget about sharpness, isnt the DR as shown in these results which makes you crazy... at 1:1 res, astonising details in the darker parts of rock shadows (areas between 2 rocks)...


The cloud at the top left is totally blown out though. It looks to me like this shot was exposed for the shadows. SOOC the image would look quite different, I think.

@millsart: The green halo must be due to sloppy masking (selection without feathering). The exposure of the sky must have been pulled down in post.



Hulyss Bowman
Registered: Mar 08, 2012
Total Posts: 118
Country: France

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mpmendenhall
Registered: Aug 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2034
Country: United States

AhamB wrote:
mpmendenhall wrote:
AhamB wrote:
I'm with FPF. I'm seeing short perfectly horizontal and vertical lines (both in the rock texture and the bushes) that can only be artifacts, but ofc. this is pixel peeping of the worst kind.


Maybe you are seeing JPEG artifacts? That's what I see. The texture on the rock is just about worst case for JPEG compression (every pixel nearly an independent random value), so something has to compress down the file size. I would guess that a lossless version would look even more natural.


I don't think so. I know this is a Foveon sensor, but they remind me of demosaicing artifacts (short horizontal and vertical lines at pixel level). I see jpeg artifacts as well but those look very different. At 100% the rock textures and the gravel just look "digital", like FPF said. Probably no problem in prints though.


This question could be resolved if someone (Doug?) could post a small tiff/png/gif uncompressed crop from the original. In a few days I'll be able to answer myself (I just put in an order for a DP2M from www.sigmaphoto.com, which stopped listing them as "out of stock").



Hulyss Bowman
Registered: Mar 08, 2012
Total Posts: 118
Country: France

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FlyPenFly
Registered: Feb 14, 2011
Total Posts: 6388
Country: United States

Really nice portrait.

That bokeh seems a bit different from what I've seen from the Sigma 30mm F2.8 on NEX.



Hulyss Bowman
Registered: Mar 08, 2012
Total Posts: 118
Country: France

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ReneMurea
Registered: Aug 23, 2004
Total Posts: 1501
Country: United States

While Sigma supplies Merills to the big stores I settled for a DP1x ($399 brand new at Amazon). Boy, what a camera. Slow focus indeed but the results are simply amazing. Leica X1 doesn't stand a chance. Don't know anything about X2 but I imagine is not far from Leica X1.



asbalyan
Registered: May 28, 2003
Total Posts: 377
Country: United States

ReneMurea wrote:
While Sigma supplies Merills to the big stores I settled for a DP1x ($399 brand new at Amazon). Boy, what a camera. Slow focus indeed but the results are simply amazing. Leica X1 doesn't stand a chance. Don't know anything about X2 but I imagine is not far from Leica X1.


DP1x/s is beauty, atleast for me.... I (mostly) used to use manual focus with focusing to infinity (even wide open, after 10-15ft, all in focus).
I am not sure, I did right thing or not by converting the camera to full spectrum, mostly for IR.. But I am liking results that way too...



Kibsgaard
Registered: Aug 21, 2007
Total Posts: 214
Country: Denmark

I have 4 cameras - also D3x and E-M5- but this thread is killing me, I have just asked my netdealer to find a price to me by contacting his Sigma contact (it is not available in my country yet, but perhaps he can get it for me)

It looks like the DP2 Merrill is the very best to get, because the lens and the camera are so good together ?



Kibsgaard
Registered: Aug 21, 2007
Total Posts: 214
Country: Denmark

Tariq Gibran wrote:
DougDolde wrote:
Here's a two shot stitch with the DP2 Merrill with some overlap of course. jpg level 7, completely unshapened, minimal processing.

I was out last night and shot 79 images, still have one bar on the battery gauge.

two shot stitch


That's crazy good IQ...the sort of sharpness, color and tonality that's reminiscent of a nice big piece of chrome film on a light table. I don't think there is anything else digital that gives that look practically out of camera. It's also clearly noticeable at any size. For this type of use, these DP Merrill cameras are probably unbeatable.


Those shots did it for me, I like them A LOT !!!



Mescalamba
Registered: Jul 06, 2011
Total Posts: 2939
Country: Czech Republic

I think that pixelization stuff is just some error on user side or RAW developer. Saw exactly same on some M9 pics. Strangely enough, both went through some Mac SW.

And SD1 really doesnt have this problem neither had fullsize RAWs. I doubt DP2 has it.



Hulyss Bowman
Registered: Mar 08, 2012
Total Posts: 118
Country: France

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millsart
Registered: Apr 29, 2009
Total Posts: 4634
Country: N/A

Kibsgaard wrote:
I have 4 cameras - also D3x and E-M5- but this thread is killing me, I have just asked my netdealer to find a price to me by contacting his Sigma contact (it is not available in my country yet, but perhaps he can get it for me)

It looks like the DP2 Merrill is the very best to get, because the lens and the camera are so good together ?



Both the DP1 and 2 seem to be giving nice images, but as far as pixel peeping fun goes, the DP2 seems to be the way to go. The sharpness edge to edge, total lack of CA and fine detail rendering is something special.



Kibsgaard
Registered: Aug 21, 2007
Total Posts: 214
Country: Denmark

millsart wrote:
Kibsgaard wrote:
I have 4 cameras - also D3x and E-M5- but this thread is killing me, I have just asked my netdealer to find a price to me by contacting his Sigma contact (it is not available in my country yet, but perhaps he can get it for me)

It looks like the DP2 Merrill is the very best to get, because the lens and the camera are so good together ?



Both the DP1 and 2 seem to be giving nice images, but as far as pixel peeping fun goes, the DP2 seems to be the way to go. The sharpness edge to edge, total lack of CA and fine detail rendering is something special.


Thank you, and what you write here is what I go for.



Kibsgaard
Registered: Aug 21, 2007
Total Posts: 214
Country: Denmark

I have read Lloyd Chambers (you have to pay for reading his site) and Steve Huff, and both used MAC and BOTH have huge problems with crashing there Mac.s. when changing the RAW.s in Sigmas software (and for the time being this should be the only possibility),

As I recall Lloyd wrote, that he could change 2 pictures to Tif, then it "was over", and his pc (Mac) crashes.

I always shoot in RAW, but use PC = W7 Pro with a very strong pc = Ivy Bridge, 3,90 GHZ, 240 SSD and 32 GB RAM. (and 2 x 3 TB) if a strong pc is any help ?? (but Lloyds Mac is even stronger)

What is your experience - also crashing = Using pc and W7 ?



Kibsgaard
Registered: Aug 21, 2007
Total Posts: 214
Country: Denmark

If you follow his blog Lloyd Chambers has just come back from a field trip, and for me there are 2 interesting things:

http://diglloyd.com/

I allow myself to put 2 things up from his blog - (there is more text on his site about the camera, DP1 Merrill):


1) To my considerable surprise, I began to prefer the Sigma DP1M to using the Sony NEX-7 or the Fuji X-Pro1 or even the Olympus E-M5, because the Sigma DP1 Merrill produces such amazingly detailed images from its excellent lens with so little fussó set the aperture, perhaps adjust exposure compensation and youíll get a sharp image way beyond what other compacts can deliver in the 14-20 megapixel range.

Those looking for more range could get both the DP1 Merrill (28mm) and DP2 Merrill (45mm). Thatís adequate for many purposes.


2) Software that crashes 100% of the time while editing an imageon my main machine, and 80% of the time on my laptop (and yes I have deleted my Sigma preference files). A company that doesnít even bother to list a contact or support email on its special site for the Sigma software. The software is a reeking steaming pile of dung software and support equal to it. Which is a problem, since Adobe does not yet support the DP1 Merrill, and itís unclear whether it will be supported.



......................As with Stefe Huff they both use Macs - I would like to know if it is better on pc.s - W7 and ask for some experience here for converting the RAWs ??



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