Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
/forum/topic/1150855/33

1       2       3              33      
34
       35              91       92       end

Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10893
Country: United States

nandadevieast wrote:
Tariq, will do.
If nothing happens, will just brighten the image
What is the behavior of fill light function? It seems to affect the image overall, not just lighten the shadows...am i right? When do you use it? I found it does something very interesting to the image...


Others probably know the specifics but it does appear to use a mask in combination with something like a curve with clarity type adj.to lift the shadows and mid-tones while maintaining local contrast, all while preserving the highlights.



Mescalamba
Registered: Jul 06, 2011
Total Posts: 3337
Country: Czech Republic

sculptormic wrote:
An intermission in the endless gossip over the by now wellknown pro's/con's of this camera.
I use it for it's output, point







Nice flag.


Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

Someone else trying to compare DP2M and D800E :-)

http://soundimageplus.blogspot.nl/2012/11/nikon-nikkor-50mm-f12-ai-s-review-and.html

Herb



Yakim Peled
Registered: Nov 18, 2004
Total Posts: 16903
Country: Israel

He shouldn't have done it....


Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

Michiel I saw the borderpolice had some comments

I do not bother too much but here are two crops from your image, left and right top corner.
Left your original and right an adjusted image with the DNG Flatfield plug-in for Lightroom.

Not ideal because I had to use one of my own correction files but just to give you an idea.

Herb



Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

Yesterdays DP2M pano in B&W...

Herb



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 1518
Country: Netherlands

Nice Pano Herb!

And thanks for your effort too PP my image corners
I like the way the beach turned out, it got rid of the margenta. About the sky, I am not sure. Well it got rid of the margenta as well too, now I concentrate on it.
I think I can get about the same correction by sliding down the margenta slider in ACR. Don't you think?

Actually I underexposed the sky in ACR.
I don't use lightroom anymore because I got tired of the filing system. Not usable for me.

May be I should give it another try.

Michiel



Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

sculptormic wrote:
Nice Pano Herb!

And thanks for your effort too PP my image corners
I like the way the beach turned out, it got rid of the margenta. About the sky, I am not sure. Well it got rid of the margenta as well too, now I concentrate on it.
I think I can get about the same correction by sliding down the margenta slider in ACR. Don't you think?

Actually I underexposed the sky in ACR.
I don't use lightroom anymore because I got tired of the filing system. Not usable for me.

May be I should give it another try.

Michiel


Michiel, as always you are free to process your images as you want them to look and how you would like to do that :-)

I felt free to show what could be done with your image just because I very much dislike negative comment that does not show or inform how things possibly could be done better. Unfortunately I have met quite some negative commenters in the past 35 years or so who were not able to show any decent picture of themselves.
Good critique helps us creating better communicating images. Negative critique makes us obsessed with aspects that hardly matter.

Use ACR and leave Lightroom when it is not your cup of tea. In case needed you might want to use Cornerfix for edge and corner issues.
The Foveon sensor responds quite a lot to UV light and that is I think why the issue shows up more in some images than in others. Wide landscapes with lots of sky can be the most difficult. But they can also look perfectly normal depending on the light. Just working with (color) sliders does mostly not tackle the issue effectively without introducing unwanted side effects.
It is easy to get completely obsessed with all kinds of technical imaging aspects and analyze the image to death. One would expect that when no technical shortcomings are observed we are close to an image that communicates it's message brilliantly. Unfortunately this is far from the truth. Because average people respond to an image with their emotion in the first place. And that is why technicalities will always play the second violin.
However nice our DPx Merill's and this forum.

Herb



Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

My question to Brian of Raw Developer for support of the new DPx Merill's:

Can we expect support for these new Foveon camera's shortly?


Answer today:

Yes, I'm now running overdue with the RAW Developer 2.0 update which was originally planned for last month, but it should be released soon.

Best regards,
Brian Griffith
Iridient Digital



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6108
Country: United States

sculptormic wrote:


@ Douglas; That the camera has no EVF and no tilting screen is a fact. Still it is possible that this camera has virtues in handling, although it may be look like it is designed like a brick.
I prefer this well designed brick above a lot of other over designed point and shoot cameras.
I sort of like the straightforwardness of it and that continous in the interface and the direct buttons for the adjustments you need the most.
Behind the point and shoot image of this camera lies actually a pocket sized MF quality camera.
I consider these DP Merrill cameras as an experiment and as very innovatory, mainly because of the Foveon sensor, with it's amazing output.
And I hope it is the beginning of a very promising development. It is very revealing to see the files of this camera/sensor as of a veil has been taken of. And in reach of many people for this price.
And then we have not even spoken about the outstanding Sigma lens. Which is even better then the, before you turned into a happy Leica owner, by you so admired “Sigmarit” lenses for the NEX series.
It is not a camera for casual shooters.

I am also a big fan of an EVF and tilting screens but this camera has so much going for it, image wise, that I can live with it. I do wish they soon share there X3F files with Adobe.

If the bricklike design and the lack of an EVF or tilting screen blocks someone from using this camera is fine, but I hoped we surpassed that stage of the discussions. No need for endlessly repeating it for the sake of having a discussion.

Michiel


Hi, Michiel. I think that you're mischaracterizing my opinions of the DP2M, and we're mostly in agreement. All of my recent responses were simply in regards to millsart's (and later Herb's) comment that mentioned using the DP2M is about the journey, rather than the outcome, and I contend the exact opposite. This camera absolutely seems like it is about the fantastic outcome, which looks pretty outstanding for the most part, especially considering the size.

I see the DP2M as a very desirable camera for certain uses, so I don't think there's any contention between us in that regard. I certainly don't think the DP2M is unusable or anything. I just personally would want something a little different for my everyday photography, since I've never been a fan of an LCD based camera without at least a tilt option or EVF, but I could see fitting the DP2M into my lineup for some of specific uses. That's why I'm looking at this thread in the first place.



millsart
Registered: Apr 29, 2009
Total Posts: 5075
Country: N/A

Hopefully maybe 6 months down the road or so we can all score some DP's on an Amazon gold box of the day type deal for $699 each or something, so those on the fence and/or those who maybe want to add a DP1M to their DP2M (and vice versa) all will be able to do so and at a low enough price we can easily rationalize.

I think at this point in time, pretty much everyone knows the pro's, such as IQ, and con's, such as battery life, limited usefuness etc, and the pro's, as nice as they are, just aren't quite worth $1000 to a lot of people.

If that price can ever come down a bit, then there really isn't much reason for anyone who enjoys great IQ not to pick one up and enjoy using it in a limited context of what it excels at.



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6108
Country: United States

Good points, Millsart. The DP2M at $699 would be hard to resist.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10893
Country: United States

Herb1911 wrote:
My question to Brian of Raw Developer for support of the new DPx Merill's:

Can we expect support for these new Foveon camera's shortly?


Answer today:

Yes, I'm now running overdue with the RAW Developer 2.0 update which was originally planned for last month, but it should be released soon.

Best regards,
Brian Griffith
Iridient Digital


One aspect of Raw Developer I have found to be very well implemented - and have used over the years - is the built in interpolation engine - and the sharpening tools. In fact, even without current support for the DP1 Merrill, I often export the DP1 M tiffs out of SPP with no sharpening, convert them into DNG's and then open them in Raw Developer for sharpening and interpolation up in size (Raw Developer supports DNG's). Yes, it's a cumbersome workflow but it's not something required for every image.



contas
Registered: Jul 21, 2010
Total Posts: 1048
Country: Vietnam

@Herb1911: You have a short memory, you afew pages back like Sculptormic today don't know anything about green edges ( color shift ).People analysed it , but you refused many time to recognised this beast, but people insisted to help you and at the end, you reluctantly accepted it as an objective phenomenon, that adheres to Foveon sensor, someone even offered you that Cornerfix may cure this disease.You now became a "mentor" of Foveon file processing, you have to say something like thank to people, who helped you to find hidden beast and prevent to post naively pictures but not some such things above. Don't you feel something like - ungrateful?



glacierpete
Registered: Sep 17, 2010
Total Posts: 148
Country: N/A

douglasf13 wrote:
Good points, Millsart. The DP2M at $699 would be hard to resist.


Douglas

Out of a marketing perspective, I am puzzled with Sigma's pricing. Consumers don't complain over 3K for a Sony RX1 because it has a Zeiss sticker on it, knowing the lens is made by Cosina.

Sigma tried to improve its reputation by putting together a world class lens with a unique sensor. I guess they choose the 1K price proint after their experiece with their Sigma SD1 pricing. It is a very low price for this level of technolog and image output. The camera output is not far behind a Nikon D800e with the best lens.
The Sigma DP2M lens is better than my Leica Summicron 50.

May be they made a mistake by choosing this kind of cheap brick look design, and people are mistaken by the Sigma sticker on it. BUT this camera at the current price level is a steal. I say this after 30+ years of photography with medium format and later digital.
It might have been better to choose a 2K price point from the beginning, make the body look better, make SPP better and most importantly do a better marketing for this incredible pice of technology.

Just my 2c



Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

@contas
Thank you for your reply. I did not want to offend you. You certainly have helped me to look more closer at Foveon edge colorshifts. And I think I already thanked you for that. The idea behind my comment is to help people in a constructive way and not just telling that something is wrong with their pictures.
I have learned a lot the past few weeks about the DP2M and among that the issue of edge colorshifts. I found out for myself that Foveon colorshifts act a little different compared to the ones on M4/3 and Nex camera's with wide angle rangefinder lenses.
The Foveon responds quite a lot to UV light. I think this influences the colorshift visibility. That explains for me why i cannot see colorshift in some landscape images and in others I do. I try to work on solutions. Standard correction files for every aperture are not ideal in this case. It is easy to over correct in this way. Now when I do a wide landscape with lots of sky or even colored surfaces I take also an Expodisc shot. This will be my most effective correction file for a DNG Flatfield correction of that specific image.
I am not the Foveon expert, I am just on my way. But i always check an try what people tell me and share my findings. This is my way of being gratefull.

Herb



Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

The ISO 100 Mini Viewcamera

This is how I basically use the DP2M.

Here the camera is setup for vertical stitched images.

On the camera I have a lens hood and a UV filter. And on the back a professionally attached Hoodloop :-)
And a standard L bracket that leaves the battery compartment free and gives me some extra lift for some clearance from the tripod when I am focussing.

The extra slider on the pano head allows me to adjust the position of the entrance pupil. Therefore the camera has to shift around 3 cm to the back. I shoot with overlap of around 30%. So I turn the camera around 10 degrees every shot.

For normal shooting I remove this extra slider.

Herb





nandadevieast
Registered: Aug 12, 2012
Total Posts: 409
Country: India







Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Herb1911 wrote:
My question to Brian of Raw Developer for support of the new DPx Merill's:

Can we expect support for these new Foveon camera's shortly?


Answer today:

Yes, I'm now running overdue with the RAW Developer 2.0 update which was originally planned for last month, but it should be released soon.

Best regards,
Brian Griffith
Iridient Digital


One aspect of Raw Developer I have found to be very well implemented - and have used over the years - is the built in interpolation engine - and the sharpening tools. In fact, even without current support for the DP1 Merrill, I often export the DP1 M tiffs out of SPP with no sharpening, convert them into DNG's and then open them in Raw Developer for sharpening and interpolation up in size (Raw Developer supports DNG's). Yes, it's a cumbersome workflow but it's not something required for every image.


Tariq Gibran,
I understand your workflow. Raw Developer is not a shiny package but it is very competent and works a lot better than SPP.
The most annoying thing right now with SPP is that I cannot batch process all images without any noise reduction.
I have to go first to every image and set the noise sliders back and store it as X3F. That is really annoying.

Herb



Herb1911
Registered: Jun 26, 2010
Total Posts: 377
Country: Netherlands

@nandadevleast,
That looks very fine and refreshing

Herb



1       2       3              33      
34
       35              91       92       end