Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
/forum/topic/1150855/2

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douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 5896
Country: United States

Tariq Gibran wrote:
douglasf13 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
RickPerry wrote:
Wow - that The Luminous Landscape review is certainly positive for the DP2M. It certainly helps validate my decision to buy one.


Yes, he finally said it:

"It is my opinion that the Sigma DP2M, for its part, provides the highest image resolution of any camera / lens combination than costs less than a $2,000 – $3,000 dollars, and it seriously challenges the IQ of cameras like the Nikon D800e and even medium format backs in prints up to about 20X30".



It's interesting that Michael's description of the DP1M's lens (and DP2M's lens) sounds remarkably like the performance of the Sigma 19 on the NEX-7, in terms of corner performance. I wonder if Michael has used the Sigmas on the NEX-7 to compare?


I saw the exact type of weakness outside of the central 2/3rds area when looking at the official DP1M samples...and it is similar to the 19 on the NEX-7 (though the optical design is a little different). I wish the Sigma 30 2.8 was available in all mounts. It really is an exceptional lens imo.


No kidding. I know that the DP2M has more resolution than the NEX-7, but I'd be curious to read MR's comments about the Sigma 30 on the NEX-7. I noticed that he tends to use zooms on the NEX-7, so I wonder if he's giving it a fair shake? The NEX-7 may be a little closer than he's implying, with the Sigmarit.



uhoh7
Registered: Nov 12, 2010
Total Posts: 1980
Country: N/A

this is why I'd guess we'll have some small FFs in a year--what a little beauty!!! best backpacking camera ever!

jeez I should sell something.

the new M and one of these would not be a bad combo



millsart
Registered: Apr 29, 2009
Total Posts: 4648
Country: N/A

uhoh7 wrote:
this is why I'd guess we'll have some small FFs in a year--what a little beauty!!! best backpacking camera ever!

jeez I should sell something.

the new M and one of these would not be a bad combo



Only downsize is that lack of IS and high ISO performance mean its often going to need a tripod, which is fine and good, except its one more thing to have to carry.

I don't miss my EM-5 per say, but I sure did love how the amazing IBIS and decent high ISO allowed me to shoot handheld so many times I otherwise would of needed a tripod, such as some night cityscape shots



glacierpete
Registered: Sep 17, 2010
Total Posts: 148
Country: N/A

I have a little Leica table top tripod with me. It weights next to nothing and fits in a coat pocket. There is always something around to put it on, or just press it against a tree or column in a building. Works perfectly fine with the dp2 merrill. I got great 25sec interior shots in old churches this way.

The biggest problem is the limited dynamic range especially in some landscape shots, where very dark areas become black. But this is a problem with the raw software and not the sensor.
On the other hand it is easy to shoot HDR with it, because it allows bracketing from -3 to +3 in 1/3 stop increments.

There is so much detail and information in these images, that I think a full frame sensor is not even necessary. I get better DOF with an APS sized sensor for landscapes and architecture.



uhoh7
Registered: Nov 12, 2010
Total Posts: 1980
Country: N/A

I also have two very light tripods, a gorrila pod and an ultra light slik, the former is 250 grams or something.

However most of my backcountry forays inevitably evolve into desperate races with the sun, so I must be able to shoot fast at most locations--I don't even get off my motorbike at most of my shoot spots.

But one might devise a fast shooting method even with the sigma--leave the camera on the tripod etc.

The nex rides in a small pouch attached to my armour support belt---very easy to pull out. It is a fairly brutal affair with the nex--and the failure of my very first one was due to rough handling I'm sure.

here i am peering into the original nex:






The new M is going to be too big, i fear, to strap on my body----but maybe I can engineer something.

Cruzing around forums where guys are using the merril some were saying that it's near a toss up between the nex-7 and the merril in real world backcountry shooting--but I can't see an N7 approaching the detail of that arieal shot, so I'm still unclear whether we are in medium format territory or not.

But, like you guys I love to see the milestones fly by

We should have some great technical cameras in the next decade. Some, I hope, will be afforable.


nandadevieast
Registered: Aug 12, 2012
Total Posts: 397
Country: India

uhoh7 wrote:

here i am peering into the original nex:









Is this india by any chance?
I think the biggest bummer for me is the battery life
Apparently it will only last for 40 to 50 shots. Some people can get little more than that, albeit, with the help of
desperate measures. Not good at all, especially when this one is a small camera otherwise very suitable for travel.
So, 10 batteries for 400 shots. How many chargers, then? And lack of power in trekking wilderness...
How will i deal with this?


alwang
Registered: Sep 02, 2011
Total Posts: 1007
Country: United States

nandadevieast wrote:

I think the biggest bummer for me is the battery life
Apparently it will only last for 40 to 50 shots. Some people can get little more than that, albeit, with the help of
desperate measures. Not good at all, especially when this one is a small camera otherwise very suitable for travel.
So, 10 batteries for 400 shots. How many chargers, then? And lack of power in trekking wilderness...
How will i deal with this?


Holy crap, I can't believe I didn't pick up on this earlier. I heard the battery was bad, but that's like 1999 bad.



corposant
Registered: Jul 14, 2010
Total Posts: 2774
Country: United States

I'd like to get it once somebody has them in stock.



tsdevine
Registered: May 26, 2006
Total Posts: 1012
Country: United States


In regards to the battery life, I've heard if you change the default auto shutoff to 15 seconds that you can get a lot more shots out of a battery. Supposedly it starts fairly fast...so I'm not sure how much of a pain that would be.

I'm planning on picking one up in the next few months too. Hope Sigma's factory is cranking them out.

-Tim



ReneMurea
Registered: Aug 23, 2004
Total Posts: 1501
Country: United States

alwang wrote:
nandadevieast wrote:

I think the biggest bummer for me is the battery life
Apparently it will only last for 40 to 50 shots. Some people can get little more than that, albeit, with the help of
desperate measures. Not good at all, especially when this one is a small camera otherwise very suitable for travel.
So, 10 batteries for 400 shots. How many chargers, then? And lack of power in trekking wilderness...
How will i deal with this?


Holy crap, I can't believe I didn't pick up on this earlier. I heard the battery was bad, but that's like 1999 bad.



Don't believe everything you read online. You have to see it for yourself to believe it. 40 shots out of a battery is BS. Before I got my DP2 I've read tons of complains where people said the bat would last 80-90 shots. Trust me, as I have and use the dp2 every day, I can easily shoot 200 RAW's and with lot of playback on the LCD. I wish the big guys had it in stock to buy one.



FlyPenFly
Registered: Feb 14, 2011
Total Posts: 6388
Country: United States

The more I think about it, the more I think at $1000, it's not worth it especially if you already have a NEX system. The Sigma 30mm is pretty much the same lens even though there might be an element or two off. The performance seems extremely similar.

Will a DP2 Merill out resolve a NEX-7 in a 16x20 print?

I could see it possibly being so at base ISO in daylight but in every other situation, the NEX-7 will give you better results and be far more flexible in every regard including shootability.



alwang
Registered: Sep 02, 2011
Total Posts: 1007
Country: United States

ReneMurea wrote:
alwang wrote:

Holy crap, I can't believe I didn't pick up on this earlier. I heard the battery was bad, but that's like 1999 bad.



Don't believe everything you read online. 40 shots out of a battery is BS. Before I got my DP2 I've read tons of complains where people said the bat would last 80-90 shots. Trust me, as I have and use the dp2 every day, I can easily shoot 200 RAW's and with lot of playback on the LCD. I wish the big guys had it in stock to buy one.


Well, the official specs from Sigma list the battery life at 97 shots, so it seems unlikely that it would be much better than that? Maybe the battery life is just extremely temperature sensitive?

http://sigma-dp.com/DP2Merrill/specifications.html



alwang
Registered: Sep 02, 2011
Total Posts: 1007
Country: United States

FlyPenFly wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I think at $1000, it's not worth it especially if you already have a NEX system. The Sigma 30mm is pretty much the same lens even though there might be an element or two off. The performance seems extremely similar.

Will a DP2 Merill out resolve a NEX-7 in a 16x20 print?

I could see it possibly being so at base ISO in daylight but in every other situation, the NEX-7 will give you better results and be far more flexible in every regard including shootability.


I think I agree with your overall conclusion, but from the samples we've seen, I'd say it's an absolute certainty it'll out resolve the NEX-7 at base ISO in daylight.



ReneMurea
Registered: Aug 23, 2004
Total Posts: 1501
Country: United States

alwang wrote:
ReneMurea wrote:
alwang wrote:

Holy crap, I can't believe I didn't pick up on this earlier. I heard the battery was bad, but that's like 1999 bad.



Don't believe everything you read online. 40 shots out of a battery is BS. Before I got my DP2 I've read tons of complains where people said the bat would last 80-90 shots. Trust me, as I have and use the dp2 every day, I can easily shoot 200 RAW's and with lot of playback on the LCD. I wish the big guys had it in stock to buy one.


Well, the official specs from Sigma list the battery life at 97 shots, so it seems unlikely that it would be much better than that? Maybe the battery life is just extremely temperature sensitive?

http://sigma-dp.com/DP2Merrill/specifications.html

I'm talking about the previous version, DP2



FlyPenFly
Registered: Feb 14, 2011
Total Posts: 6388
Country: United States

alwang wrote:
FlyPenFly wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I think at $1000, it's not worth it especially if you already have a NEX system. The Sigma 30mm is pretty much the same lens even though there might be an element or two off. The performance seems extremely similar.

Will a DP2 Merill out resolve a NEX-7 in a 16x20 print?

I could see it possibly being so at base ISO in daylight but in every other situation, the NEX-7 will give you better results and be far more flexible in every regard including shootability.


I think I agree with your overall conclusion, but from the samples we've seen, I'd say it's an absolute certainty it'll out resolve the NEX-7 at base ISO in daylight.


Maybe what we need to do is increase/scale up the DP2M to 24mpx and see how it handles it

Or scale both up to 48mpx and see what they look like 1:1.



RoySussex
Registered: Jul 12, 2011
Total Posts: 117
Country: United Kingdom

From Lloyd Chambers' blog (http://diglloyd.com/):
"Look, here’s the executive summary: intriguing sensor, high noise, world’s worst autofocus, worst LCD I’ve seen in a long time, no built-in flash, plastic build, bulky and not pocketable, slippery body with no grip and boxy shape, better menus than last year, no support for RAW except from unusable software. Well, you do have to give Sigma credit for including two (2) batteries, presumably because of the very short battery life."
He puts similar sentiments in even more pithy terms elsewhere too. His comments on the crapware RAW converter make the above sound mild.
But it's one of the flavours of this month so the forum hysteria runs high.
Roy



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 5896
Country: United States

alwang wrote:
FlyPenFly wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I think at $1000, it's not worth it especially if you already have a NEX system. The Sigma 30mm is pretty much the same lens even though there might be an element or two off. The performance seems extremely similar.

Will a DP2 Merill out resolve a NEX-7 in a 16x20 print?

I could see it possibly being so at base ISO in daylight but in every other situation, the NEX-7 will give you better results and be far more flexible in every regard including shootability.


I think I agree with your overall conclusion, but from the samples we've seen, I'd say it's an absolute certainty it'll out resolve the NEX-7 at base ISO in daylight.


I think I agree with your overall conclusion, as well, alwang. Granted, I'd like to see a side by side of the NEX-7 with the Sigma 30 vs. the DP2M, to see just how much extra resolution we're talking about (once both files are optimized in the raw converter,) especially since it seems like the NEX-7 will have the DR advantage, so there still could be reason to choose the NEX-7 at base ISO.



FlyPenFly
Registered: Feb 14, 2011
Total Posts: 6388
Country: United States

Right, so if it turns out you have:

Lens Interchangability
Great Adobe RAW Compatibility
Relatively Fast AF
Great Battery Life
Similar Optical performance
Better Dynamic Range
Very high resolution tilt screen
high resolution EVF
Possibility to use other lenses including Zeiss lenses with Fast AF
Great Video performance
three control wheels

Why would you get a Sigma DP2m with its slow operation, crappy screen, crappy battery life, terrible post workflow, etc.



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 5896
Country: United States

That's kinda what I'm thinking, FlyPenFly. It's certainly a lot to give up for a little more resolution.



dcjs
Registered: Apr 21, 2010
Total Posts: 381
Country: Germany

Why would you get a Sigma DP2m with its slow operation, crappy screen, crappy battery life, terrible post workflow, etc.

Maybe for the same reason you were raving about the SD1 files about 4 weeks ago.



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