Which new system? Fuji or m43?
/forum/topic/1150431/1

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hardlyboring
Registered: Apr 19, 2008
Total Posts: 8345
Country: United States

The Fuji is the way to go.
I own all the fuji cameras save the X-E1 and they are all stunning. My newest addition is the X10 and it gives better file quality than the hailed Sony Rx100 which I also have.

The reason you go Fuji is because you want to shoot with a "real" camera. Even the OMD with its slr looks is more like driving a spaceship with tiny dials and stuff. No good IMO. I want a camera with all the manual controls right at my fingertips.

The built quality in the Fujis is also far far better than the rest save for maybe the OMD.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE my fuji cameras....

Here is the XP1 @ 12800 iso straight out of the camera ... after the newest firmware update it is a new kinda beast and I am seeing at least .5 stops improvement in high iso.








Kit Laughlin
Registered: Mar 08, 2004
Total Posts: 3529
Country: Australia

As a number here have said:

The killer feature on Olympus m4/3 bodies is IBIS

Can't argue with that. I had the OM-D, but it needed a grip to feel secure, and that adds size and bulk. I am presently using the GX1 (but with the RRS L-bracket, only using the bottom part, as it continues the contour of the camera's grip and it transforms the ergonomics), and the usual suspects, lenses-wise (7–14, 12/2, 20/1.7, 45/1.8), but none of these have stabilisation.

IBIS really works well on the OM-D—but you can't easily select the lowest shutter speed before auto ISO kicks in (or at least you couldn't with the firmware I was using).

All this is a preamble to introduce the Fuji X-E1, though. I think that this, finally, will be what I have been looking for: smallish form factor (but not too small); fast and excellent primes (the new 21 EFOV one will be among the first purchases, as will be the 30/1.4). I like the built-in decent EVF (that is the aspect of the GX1 I least like, though it is very handy, as it tilts), I like Fuji JPEG rendering and colour, and I LOVE the fact that is does not have an AA filter, and that the sensor is APS-C—with the 30/1/4, should have very controllable DOF. And we all know how well the X-Trans sensor performs at higher ISOs.

Apart from no IBIS and no tilt-out back, no downsides, for me.

And like the µ4/3rd's bodies, the X-E1 can take a huge variety of alt lenses, too. It's a great time to be a shooter (coming from FF Nikons and Sonys). Do the FF bodies produce better images, ultimately? Yes, definitely, but the fact is the smaller lighter systems mean I have, for the first time, a camera with me at all times. That's the #1 plus.



bobbytan
Registered: Feb 03, 2004
Total Posts: 7566
Country: United States

Don't know what you mean by "feels more like a computer". To me, the OM-D feels more like a DSLR than the other mirrorless options ... except for the new GH-3. Best part of the m43 system is the range of affordable superb and fast lenses - especially the primes - like the 12, 17, 25, 45, 60 and 75 for under $1,000 ... which you can't really do with top quality DSLR glass. No experience or knowledge of the Fujis or Sonys but I don't think they have great affordable lenses like those from Olympus and Panasonic-Leica, etc.

IBIS is the icing on the cake.

heed wrote:
IMHO the OM-D and maybe other m4/3 bodies "feel" more like a computer than the Fujis do. The Fujis feel a bit more like a camera. Maybe this isn't an issue coming from NEX (I've tried those, too, and I don't think m4/3's is as bad as NEX in this regard).

I truly do love the IBIS of my OM-D though. It is second to none, including my old EOS gear.



russellnadler
Registered: Apr 24, 2012
Total Posts: 163
Country: United States

I'm in a similar situation as you, but the decision has become much clearer to me. Do you currently shoot RAW? I just left behind my DSLR in hopes of going mirrorless, and there is NO way I would ever settle for using jpeg images (if I went Fuji). The Fuji X sensor watercolor is too much for me. My plan is OMD EM5



ISO1600
Registered: Jul 06, 2005
Total Posts: 4483
Country: Korea, South

Russell,

If you want to use JPG only, the OMD is great until you get into higher ISOs. I shoot a lot of low-light stuff, and pretty much leave it on Auto-ISO... i ONLY shoot jpg.
Once you get past 3200, I can't find settings that don't make the jpgs at least somewhat "muddy".
I don't mind, as they still work for me, but it is a step down in high-ISO quality from my D7000.



hardlyboring
Registered: Apr 19, 2008
Total Posts: 8345
Country: United States

The OMD is decent but the Fuji's are just KILLING it IMO.
Yes the watercolor greens are no good BUT the pros far outweigh the cons for the Fuji system.
ALso the XP1 is the only one that "watercolors" and only in certain situations.

The more I have played with the X10 the more I like it. It is a fantastic point and shoot esque camera that is actually a CAMERA... not some convoluted mess of electronics like other smaller P&S cameras and even a lot of the M4/3 stuff.

What are your overall goals with the camera?



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6084
Country: United States

hardlyboring wrote:
ALso the XP1 is the only one that "watercolors" and only in certain situations.


The XP1 and X-E1 both have X-Trans.

Ideally, I would like the NEX-7's sensor in a body the size of an X100/NEX-7 with a hybrid viewfinder consisting of the X-Pro1's OVF and the NEX-7's EVF, with the IBIS, weather sealing and AF speed of the OM-D, with the NEX-7's ability to assign ISO to a third dial, and with the option of mounting the Fuji 35/1.4 (or maybe the upcoming Zeiss 32/1.8.)

Until then, all of these cameras are compromises to me in certain ways. At the moment, I've been shooting a combination of the X100 and NEX-7, but, now that the Sony 35/1.8 and Zeiss 32/1.8 have been announced, I may sell the X100. The retro vibe is cool, but, in reality, the NEX-7's 3 dials works well, and the grip is very good, so I haven't decided which interface I truly prefer.



michaelwatkins
Registered: Oct 08, 2011
Total Posts: 1699
Country: Canada

douglasf13 wrote:
Ideally, I would like the NEX-7's sensor in a body the size of an X100/NEX-7 with a hybrid viewfinder consisting of the X-Pro1's OVF and the NEX-7's EVF, with the IBIS, weather sealing and AF speed of the OM-D, with the NEX-7's ability to assign ISO to a third dial, and with the option of mounting the Fuji 35/1.4 (or maybe the upcoming Zeiss 32/1.8.)




Where oh where is the PREORDER LINK ?

Oh, and does this unobtainable camera come in a version without anti-alias filter? Does it have a tilt rear LCD viewable in bright daylight? Built in diopter adjustment?



FlyPenFly
Registered: Feb 14, 2011
Total Posts: 6451
Country: United States

Don't forget weather sealing and IBIS of the OM-D.

The interface is also much nicer on the OM-D even with menu hell over the NEX interface.



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6084
Country: United States

FlyPenFly wrote:
Don't forget weather sealing and IBIS of the OM-D.

The interface is also much nicer on the OM-D even with menu hell over the NEX interface.


I already mentioned the weather sealing and IBIS of the OM-D in my post. I don't really care about menu interfaces that much, because I rarely go into menus, and I know where everything is pretty quickly with any camera I buy, but I'm always for better menus. That reminds me, I also would want lots of customizable buttons, as well as a tilt LCD like Michael mentioned.



FlyPenFly
Registered: Feb 14, 2011
Total Posts: 6451
Country: United States

I also want dual slot memory cards and a good OEM grip option (while maintaining internal battery swapability).

Also pixel bucketing and Olympus dramatic filter. And 4/3rd zooms.



kewlcanon
Registered: Mar 28, 2009
Total Posts: 4461
Country: United States

... and with 1Dx AF + Fuji f50fd price .



FlyPenFly
Registered: Feb 14, 2011
Total Posts: 6451
Country: United States

Also a small cooling fan for the sensor or electronics. Whatever is causing overheating and shutdowns during video.



michaelwatkins
Registered: Oct 08, 2011
Total Posts: 1699
Country: Canada

We should strike up a thread to design a camera by committee. Establish some sort of Benevolent Dictator For Life to weigh feature proposals. Require all major feature requests to include a concise brief as to why it must be there, and maybe have a jury of voters to assist the BDFL.

The output would be the camera that a majority of us would buy.

Maybe.


(Betchya we get it /more/ right than many of the camera makers.)



itai195
Registered: Aug 08, 2011
Total Posts: 1200
Country: United States

Choosing between Fuji and MFT is really about the design of the cameras IMO. One could argue that the Fujis have better IQ, but below ISO 3200 I don't think the differences are that big of a deal. When I tried an X-Pro1, I liked the ergonomics of the camera, including the control layout and the quick menu implementation. No MFT body comes close IMO. But the X-Pro1 just had so many quirks in operation–at the top of the list was the slow, inaccurate AF–that I just couldn't stand using it. Fuji seem to have worked a lot of the kinks out in subsequent firmware updates, and the X-E1 looks like a really nice camera body. I have to give them major bonus points for rapid improvement.

In theory, Fuji is doing all the big things right, for which they deserve a lot of credit, but you have to get the little things right as well in order to deliver a polished, enjoyable product. For example, their lens roadmap is perfect and I love the control scheme on their cameras–these are big things that they do well–but if my camera takes over 30s to start up because it can't handle some hidden files my Mac put on the SD card, well, that's just unacceptable. I'll update my assessment when I can try an X-E1 with the latest firmware, but between the X-Pro1 and the E-M5 the choice was pretty clearly in Oly's favor for me.



Kit Laughlin
Registered: Mar 08, 2004
Total Posts: 3529
Country: Australia

Douglas:

Ideally, I would like the NEX-7's sensor in a body the size of an X100/NEX-7 with a hybrid viewfinder consisting of the X-Pro1's OVF and the NEX-7's EVF, with the IBIS, weather sealing and AF speed of the OM-D, with the NEX-7's ability to assign ISO to a third dial, and with the option of mounting the Fuji 35/1.4 (or maybe the upcoming Zeiss 32/1.8.)

Michael:

Oh, and does this unobtainable camera come in a version without anti-alias filter? Does it have a tilt rear LCD viewable in bright daylight? Built in diopter adjustment?

Not interested particularly in the cooling fan (interesting idea tho' it is) because the GX1 makes perfect video out of the box.

Really, a camera that satisfies these constraints will sell hugely, for sure.

@ itai95: you Mac does not put any files on the card unless you use the computer to delete the files, which should never be done that way. Formatting the card in the camera is the way to go. Many here are Mac-only folk, and what you describe has never happened to me (using a large variety of cameras, including many Fujis). Formatting the card every time in the camera is just good data hygiene. hth, kl



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6084
Country: United States

Yep, I make sure that I format my card every time I put it back into my X100. In fact, I do that with all of my cameras.



hardlyboring
Registered: Apr 19, 2008
Total Posts: 8345
Country: United States

The fuji cameras are much more camera like ergonomically than basically anything else in the apsc (minus actual dslrs), mft, or smaller sensor departments.

The XP1 is somewhat slow but with the new firmware update it is like a new camera. The reason it is not quite as responsive as the X100 or the X10 is that it has those fast lenses to move around.
Get the 35mm lens put it on the XP1 and shoot it at 1.4.... you will be blown away.

I have a lot of faith in Fuji that they will do the right thing eventually and release a modern masterpiece:
FF (I would take APSC if I had to)
16-18 mp
Legit Raw files that can be edited with LR
Real Manual Focus with Focus Peeking
Go ahead price it at 2500-2800$ ... I do not care it would be worth every penny and more.

Ya ya leica has it blah blah but seriously it is in no ones business plan to spend 5000$ on just a body plus another 5G's for a good lens.
I am also willing to wait. I hoped that at Photokina this year they would do something monumental but I guess things are not moving along as fast as I thought. I think we got the X-E1 to bide some time while they perfect things for the next X generation.



itai195
Registered: Aug 08, 2011
Total Posts: 1200
Country: United States

Kit Laughlin wrote:
@ itai95: you Mac does not put any files on the card unless you use the computer to delete the files, which should never be done that way. Formatting the card in the camera is the way to go. Many here are Mac-only folk, and what you describe has never happened to me (using a large variety of cameras, including many Fujis). Formatting the card every time in the camera is just good data hygiene. hth, kl


I don't format the card on the Mac or delete any files on the Mac. This is a fairly well publicized issue with all of Fuji's X cameras. Same thing happens using the iPad's camera connection kit. In fact, I don't use my cards any differently on Fuji cameras than I ever have with Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, or Olympus cameras, and none of those brands ever exhibited the issue.



Kit Laughlin
Registered: Mar 08, 2004
Total Posts: 3529
Country: Australia

And I really don't like the size and ergonomics of the M8/M9 bodies; and I really tried to like them, 'cos a friend had an M8 in perfect condition at a steal of a price. Nope, not at any price, for me.



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