Thanks for the report Ralph.

I for one use the center point almost exclusively. So its good news that Canon has kept improving it. Not that I think the one in the 5D3 needs improvement. It has served me extremely well in a wide range of conditions. Best I have used ever. (and that includes 1 series)

Another thing I really like is the wireless connectivity. That is just awesome. Wish they had incorporated that in the 5D3. Being in the 6D means that its most likely gonna be incorporated in all future Canon DSLR's.

Ralph, thanks a lot for the notes. I know you don't care much for the wifi option but could you:

1) Confirm what kind of wifi it is
2) Confirm you do not need a wifi connection to link to a smartphone

I think many, including I, are interested in this. Thanks again!

Ralph, can you check if you can find a Microfocus adjustent in the menus on the 6D? If it has MFA and the AF system works as well as you experienced, the 6D may actually be a decent camera.

It has MFA like the 5d3 has MFA.

I said to myself - the 6D would probably be my next camera unless one of those fire sales came along on the MKIII again. It did, so that puts the 6D out in the future for me as a second body. I am stoked to hear it has AFMA, in cam HDR, and I'm really hoping the ISO us usable up to 12.8k.

-Brian

PetKal wrote:
Ralph Conway wrote:
Eventually "the mighty center AF-point focuser", Peter.

That may very well be true, Ralph. However, many people use only the center AF pt. anyways for reasons of accuracy, speed, dependability and control.
yep in the same camp here,its nothing to focus and re-compose,to some its the end-of-the-world if thay cant use all their a/f points...

digitalbug30d wrote:
PetKal wrote:
Ralph Conway wrote:
Eventually "the mighty center AF-point focuser", Peter.

That may very well be true, Ralph. However, many people use only the center AF pt. anyways for reasons of accuracy, speed, dependability and control.
yep in the same camp here,its nothing to focus and re-compose,to some its the end-of-the-world if thay cant use all their a/f points...

Not the end of the world, just inconvenient. And once you got used to using the outer focus point, it's gonna take a bit of getting used to the focus and recompose, especially confusing if you use it on one camera and then try to use outer focus on the other camera.

Plus I thought single cross type AF is history since Canon introduced the 9 cross type on a frickin entry level REBEL. That makes it even more painful because now we know that cost is not the issue if Canon can put it on a Rebel.

Besides, this is a more practical issue than the so called "less DR than the competition" issue.

Great hope to see you there and show me Tamron's new toy

Ralph Conway wrote:
visit me too, Robin. I am on the Tamron booth (on the small observation tower) and you can get an first impression of the new Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD.
We show preproduction samples only and imo the lens looks very good. But it is not allowed to put in a memory card

Ralph

Ralph, thank you for giving us some first-hand comments about the 6D. Sounds encouraging.

I shoot a 60D myself, and the thought of getting a FF body always surfaces now and then. However, the 5DmkIII is much too expensive for a hobbyist like me, and the mkII does not really inspire me at this point. We'll see how it pans out with the 6D. Some of the features, such as 5DmkIII-type MFA for zoom lenses and the super-sensitive center-point AF sound great.

Looking forward to more comments about certain performance-related unknowns, such as the tracking ability of various focus points - e.g. can I track my children's eye with the upper right focus point using my Sigma 85 with servo AF? (please insert snarky comment about Sigma focusing ability here ) and buffer fill/flush times during bursts. Oh yeah, and the question of IQ of course.

Jaakko

Hmmm, the performance of the center point is interesting indeed. But what I find hard to believe is the performance of the outer points. Sharp results from 50/1.4? What about (near)wide-open? Those sensors would be having a hard time in real life I expect.

I was able to get my 30D focus wide open 85/1.8 accurately on outer points... when the target was something like barcodes. That was good. In real life, they were unusable.

So for me jury is still out on the performance of the outer points, and I don't expect any miracles there, even on latest AF sensor.

stargazer78 wrote:
Interesting note about the EOS 6D AF: Its tracking and AF lock sensitivity can be adjusted 5D3-style. I didn't expect such a feature in the camera, especially since Canon had removed the 6 assist points from the 6D (essentially castrating A.I. Servo mode).


That I wouldn't say unless I'd try using the camera first.

The expansion AF points surrounding the preselected AF point do not play any role in AF acquisition. Their purpose is in subsequent support given to AF maintenance. The bigger the target in VF, the simpler its motion, and the better stabilised the image in VF is, the less important those auxilliary AF points become.

Most people who use Servo AF tracking for real challanging targets rely on the center AF point almost exclusively. (Some turn the expansion on, some don't.)
The key reason for that is in the aiming speed/accuracy with long lenses.....use of the center AF sensor maintains the aiming axis constant. Changing to a peripheral AF sensor throws the aiming off.
The second reason is that traditionally the center AF point has been the most sensitive one in the Canon cameras.
The third reason is in a cropping lattitude or a framing buffer around the target which the center frame focusing usually affords..

Therefore, the center AF point sensitivity is of utmost importance in any challenging Servo AF tracking, more so than any auxilliary AF points. If such supersensitive center AF sensor is supported by fast and good AF algorithm, then a camera such as 6D may turn out to be a very good Servo AF performer indeed.

How much more sensitive is the 6D in low light compared to the 5D3? I don't have much issue with my primes, but it would be nice to have better AF for my 24-105.

facedodge wrote:
How much more sensitive is the 6D in low light compared to the 5D3? I don't have much issue with my primes, but it would be nice to have better AF for my 24-105.

The 6D center AF sensor spec is -3 EV, whereas 5DMkIII's is -2 EV.
Which means that 6D will AF in light which is one stop lower than the light level at which 5DMkIII can still focus.

The above difference in AF performance, due to AF sensor light/contrast sensitivity improvement by one stop, would be similar to going from 24-105L to 24-70L, on the same camera.

PetKal wrote:
facedodge wrote:
How much more sensitive is the 6D in low light compared to the 5D3? I don't have much issue with my primes, but it would be nice to have better AF for my 24-105.

The 6D center AF sensor spec is -3 EV, whereas 5DMkIII's is -2 EV.
Which means that 6D will AF in light which is one stop lower than the light level at which 5DMkIII can still focus.

The above difference in AF performance, due to AF sensor light/contrast sensitivity improvement by one stop, would be similar to going from 24-105L to 24-70L, on the same camera.

That increased stop in sensitivity and possible higher ISO's with good/great IQ make f4L glass even more functional, it's not just the weight benefit if this is the case with the 6D. My 300 f4L IS at evening stadium baseball, football, soccer, etc. even overcast dayz at the Wedge shootin surfers or action at the drags...or with a 400 f5.6L

A set of f4L zooms makes for a killer kit; 17-14, 24-105, 70-200, for the budget minded L glass seeker

Ya I'm liking the looks of this 6D...just gotta wait for the reviews!

StillFingerz wrote:

Ya I'm liking the looks of this 6D...just gotta wait for the reviews!


Jerry, no need to wait, it's all here, it's been done already.

Peter, I may have posted there with the Canon-is-just-crap-fanboyz and been one of a few that could use this entry level road apple

I'm really pondering a pre-order, along the 100L...so tempting!

Coming from 5D II the improvement would mean 2.5 stops and would be similar as going from 4.0 to 1.8.

Tried to check the silent mode today. But impossible: It was so loud all around that I could not make out a difference in normal and silent. I will try again tommorrow morning, before the crowd runs in and will do a checklist for some questions here I am interested in myself (sorry, but I have to work on photokina and get only few time to be away from our own booth).

Ralph,

Really appreciate you going "in harm's way" to give us an early look at the 6D from a photographer's viewpoint. Anything more you can learn will be greatly appreciated.

In the "bash the stupid canon" fire storm thread that erupted when the specs were released, I suggested that one cannot judge a camera simply on a spec list. (If that were so, no one would ever buy a Leica ) I was promptly disabused of this rational thought by several who maintained that the "specs tell all."

I have no inside info, but apparently Canon put a new sensor and a new AF system in the 6D. Your report certainly seems to support the AF idea. As for how the sensor works, we'll have to wait. I'm going out on a limb here, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this may very well turn out to be an excellent offering by Canon. Please understand, I have plenty of issues with Canon's incremental and grudging approach to improvement and some of the choices their marketing droids have made are just plain stupid (5DIII pricing et. al.)

Canon seems to have developed at least 2 and likely 3 new ~20Mp sensors (5DIII, 1Dx, and 6D). Am I the only one who remembers years of "experts" shouting down Canon (and other companies) back in the megapixel war? How many times did we read, "I only need XXMp, just make them better!" So Canon stopped piling on the pixels (starting with the G12 as I remember) and suddenly everyone is outraged that Nikon has a 36Mp camera and Canon doesn't. Why am I so confused?

Personally, I'll wait till there are multiple real world reports from actual photographers and examine their photos. A lightweight $2k FF camera with good DR and reasonable focus would be a boon to landscape photogs who often hike some distances loaded with gear to get "just that shot." Obviously it is too early to tell, but your report is encouraging.

Thanks again for getting us information that isn't Canon marketspeak.

Robert

OntheRez wrote:

Thanks again for getting us information that isn't Canon marketspeak.

Robert

+1

Robert, just go to Ralph's website galleries and you should be able to see right away that Ralph is no forumographer, although Ralph has been seen engaged in some forumography topics ........here and there.

robinlee wrote:
Great hope to see you there and show me Tamron's new toy

Ralph Conway wrote:
visit me too, Robin. I am on the Tamron booth (on the small observation tower) and you can get an first impression of the new Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD.
We show preproduction samples only and imo the lens looks very good. But it is not allowed to put in a memory card

Ralph

Looking forward to meet you. You find the Tamron booth in hall 4.2. I will not be on the booth from 1 pm to 2 pm I guess, because I have a meeting. Before or after would fit.
When you visit Canon ask the 6D presenter for the "cave" if you do not find it yourself.

Ralph